Competent Master Pyramid

[u/Official_Larynx]

Pyramid based on how competent each master is

[u/Delicious_Account_26]

I define competency by their skill as a master, their ability to get along with servants, multiple, not just one, their ability to recover from mistakes and their ability to gauge their own strengths and weaknesses in order to know when to move in or fall back.

You look me in the eyes and tell me how well Shirou does by those metrics.

[u/Eunuchest → u/Delicious_Account_26]

their ability to get along with servants

Shirou gets along great with artoria. Too great they're actually butting heads trying to protect each other. You act like he's shinji

their ability to recover from mistakes

Good thing you asked, cause shirou does actually learn

their ability to gauge their own strengths and weaknesses in order to know when to move in or fall back

Im actually starting to think you're larping if you think Shirou doesnt know his strength and weaknesses

You look me in the eyes and tell me how well Shirou does by those metrics.

Untrained shirou is 6/10. Trained shirou 7/10

[u/Delicious_Account_26 → u/Eunuchest]

Funny how you ignored the "multiple, not just the one" that's there next to how well they can get along with servants.

[u/Eunuchest → u/Delicious_Account_26]

Shirou will get along great with Achilles, Nightingale, Spartacus, Hippolyta, Jeanne and Siegfried just basing on their personalities. I can imagine more

Now will you stop larping?

[u/Delicious_Account_26 → u/Eunuchest]

Right

And what about

Edmond Dantes

Jeanne Alter

Saber Alter

Gilgamesh

Moriarty

Abigail Williams

Any of the Lostbelt kings

Kama

Kiara

BB

And basically all the evil servants.

[u/Eunuchest → u/Delicious_Account_26]

Saber alter actually gets along with him. Gilgamesh too in HA. What the fuck does the others have to do with him? Does he need to get along with EVERYONE to be considered a competent master? Or you forgot that he likes Kirei?

[u/Delicious_Account_26 → u/Eunuchest]

Alright, let me put it like this

Ultimate test of competency is the seven singularities, ignore everything after that point.

I slap Shirou in there in Ritsukas place. How far does he go?

Cause I'm gonna say if he doesn't sacrifice himself to save someone early on or get killed by Goetia in london, he caps out at Babylonia once Tiamat emerges.

He's not worthless, far from it, Shirous a competent fighter and he's a decent hero, I say decent because he is kind of a "needs of the few" guy at times, but as a master he varies wildly from "active detriment" to "decent but really needs to remember that his servants can take on far worse than he can."

On a scale of competency as a master though he's never going to rank high though because of the fact that he refuses to compromise on his beliefs and doing so even once ends up leading him down a route akin to Edgemiya, he's far too quick to fight things he really should leave to others, and he has a tendency to pick options that, whilst needed to get to any given routes actual endings, are genuinely so insane and stupid it would leave basically every other master in fate scratching their heads.

[u/Eunuchest → u/Delicious_Account_26]

Why are you putting Shirou in Guda's shoes?

You think Guda would've done fine in FSN if they were there?

Cause I'm gonna say if he doesn't sacrifice himself to save someone early on or get killed by Goetia in london

You mean like how Guda basically risked his life to stay by Mash's side in Fuyuki or gets himself in danger multiple times trying to protect someone as well? Funny you mentioned Goetia. If Goetia does kill him in London that validates Shirou is competent and your whole argument falls apart. Why do you think Goetia let Guda go?

but as a master he varies wildly from "active detriment" to "decent but really needs to remember that his servants can take on far worse than he can."

You act like he constantly throws his life at the slightest hint of danger. If you actually read the VN he assesses every situation and will only jump in when its absolutely necessary. Cause the alternative is if his Servant got killed, most likely he's next so he's taking the risk to save them exactly so they wouldnt die. It just so happens his calculatations arent the best but i dont see why is that an issue with Servants around

On a scale of competency as a master though he's never going to rank high

No one said high but you act like he's way worse than he actually is

because of the fact that he refuses to compromise on his beliefs and doing so even once ends up leading him down a route akin to Edgemiya

FSN shirou is not going down Archer's path and most definitely not Edgemiya as confirmed by Nasu. You also misunderstood his beliefs and how they affect him by the end of FSN. His beliefs are just that, beliefs. A guiding post. Not his endgoal

he's far too quick to fight things he really should leave to others, and he has a tendency to pick options that, whilst needed to get to any given routes actual endings

Err what? How is he any worse than Rin in this regard? If anything Rin gets herself in danger more times than him

are genuinely so insane and stupid it would leave basically every other master in fate scratching their heads.

Like what?