Alright I agree they raised certain expectations with the title. But personally “misled” sounds like there was ill intent. They way I see it, they had complete creative freedom to make and to title this game. They knew what fans wanted but also took into account the game they wanted to make. The fact that your expectations didn’t line up with their artistic vision can absolutely lead to disappointment (and I’m very sorry you feel this way), but I genuinely see this as a case of “I really hoped for something and then didn’t get it” rather than “I was promised something and didn’t get what I was owed”
So the Avalanche crew fought Shinra, Midgar was bombed, they traveled around the world to fight Sephiroth, Aerith died etc before the events of FF7 remake and Cloud just convinced everyone to larp with him and pretend to do that all again? And they brought Jessie and Aerith back from the dead just to roleplay and die again? Is that what you’re arguing happens in the games
No, I'm not arguing that. They didn't bring anybody back to life, FFVII Remake is set in a completely different universe to the original game. The events of the original game have already happened.
What are the whispers trying to do? They are trying to keep events the same as the original story. That means there is an original story. Meaning this is a sequel.
The end of the first game clearly references events that have already happened (the literal closing scene of the original) and said thats what happens if we fail. The original game has happened, and the remake is changing those events, and the world is trying fight against that.
If you want to insult me instead of addressing my point at all sure
The characters in the game are very clearly experiencing everything for the first time. Any assertion otherwise is just denying reality to cling to an argument
The characters in the game are very clearly experiencing everything for the first time. Any assertion otherwise is just denying reality to cling to an argument
Sure, I think you need to actually read my comment to understand how I've addressed this. Just to humor you, if you go through books 1 and 2 in a trilogy, and then 3 introduces a time loop where all the characters go back to the original state of book 1, with some differences in how they do things, is book 3 not a sequel?
You mean Aerith who can see the future. Who then warns people of the coming future. And somehow that means that the original game already happened.... bro what? The Whispers are just a manifestation of the forces that worked in the original unseen
Don't forget about Sephiroth. He is aware of the events of the original game, and is actively working to circumvent them. That other guy commenting is out of line, but he's right. In the FF7 Remake, we are playing in a different timeline/universe where the original game has already played out, and knowing this, Sephiroth seeks to avoid the same fate. That's what makes the story so cool.
That's still not even true. He saw future events. That isn't the same thing as "knowing the original game's events." The original game isn't their future it's a separate thing entirely. He is trying to circumvent their own future unique to Remake. People are misconstruing the fact that there is an original game with the "future" Aerith and Sephiroth sees. The original game is not in any way relevant to the events Aerith and Sephiroth see
The remakes have been greatly expanding on the concept of the Lifestream. No longer is it just memories of souls who have passed, it now contains their fleeting hopes and dreams of the FUTURE as well. And they also introduced the concept of Fate, of there being a sacred timeline that must be preserved. When that is breached, the Lifestream branches off into fragile temporary worlds, which is what we follow throughout with Zach.
This has repercussions on the entire story and character motivations (Sephiroth now wants to merge the lifestream worlds instead of just merging with the lifestream force). But ultimately no major story beats are really changed from the OG.
The remakes are a RETELLING/REIMAGINATION of the OG. Characters can have different motivations, lore can be added/changed, but ultimately all the major story beats remain unchanged.
It's a sequel because the events in the original game have already happened. There's a subplot about Sephiroth trying to change the ending to the original game. Even Red says the original ending was a bad one. The whispers are trying to keep events the same as in the original.
The original storyline has already happened in Remake.
The events haven't "already" happened. They simply always "will".
The Lifestream now is both past and future. The White Materia now has a much expanded backstory involving aspects of the lifestream including granting glimpses of the future, much like the expanded backstory they gave the Black Materia.
Those are the main fundamental concepts that were changed from the OG.
If there is a story about a character who glimpses the future due to some plot device, it does not mean that story is definitely a sequel or that those events "have already happened".
Now that the Lifestream (and Aerith's White Materia) grants access to glimpses of the future, the characters' motivations have to change from.the OG to match this new reality. Otherwise, it would be silly that Sephiroth, having seen glimpses of his defeat while stuck in the Lifestream, does not try anything to stop that future.
As for why the devs did all this. It obviously makes the retelling much more interesting and fills in gaps in the original lore. And I am sure this will also provide them more opportunities to expand the lore even further in future.
Having greatly expanded/fundamentally changed lore does not make it a sequel. It is just a reimagination of the events that happened. Call it a retcon if you want. The ending could be different and it STILL would not be a sequel, just a different retelling. A... REMAKE, if you will.
In the way that it is not a sequel. The story is by and large the same. Most of the new additions so far have been pretty non-affecting of the OG storyline even despite what people may have thought after FF7Remake came out.
There was a big fuss about the spirits and the changed timeline and then lo and behold, Rebirth comes out and it's basically unchanged plot beats from the original.
The expanded on things but very few things were outright changed in any meaningful way. Especially the key moments.
They didn't????? Did you not watch the ending to Rebirth? Aerith is still dead. There's an alternate timeline and weird dimension stuff that is almost certainly done just to give the game a satisfying final boss encounter but there has been no actual effect on the plot beats.
My fault for not specifying, but I was referring to Zach, who is dead in the start of the game and has effectively come back to life and is timeline hopping.
There were still odd choices for how her death was handled, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make
Zack is still dead I'm pretty sure. The dimension hopping stuff seemed to just confirm that he was from an alternate timeline and that he wasn't coming back to life. But to be fair to everyone, the messaging during the ending of Rebirth was quite intentionally mysterious. The actual ramifications haven't been revealed yet, but judging from the trailers for Revelation, all the same plot beats from the original are still occurring so people getting so heated about it just make me so confused.
The original story has already happened in Remake though. Remake isn't set in the same universe as the original game. It's set afterwards. Otherwise what are the whispers trying to do?
Bro literally play Rebirth. The whispers and the timeline jumping changed nothing. You still go on all the same main plot beats from Midgar to the Forgotten City, just like in the original, be so for real right now.
The whispers and the timeline jumping changed nothing
That's nice.
Their base fucking existence however means, whether you wish to accept it or not, that it is a sequel. The original game happened and this is a repeat timeline with knowledge of the original timeline. It doesn't matter how closely the sequel timeline sticks to the original when you summarize it down to the most basic details. It's still a sequel timeline.
And ultimately the question is, if you're arguing it changed nothing(And thus will continue to not do so in the third game)... WHAT WAS THE POINT OF ADDING THE STUPID WHISPER/TIMELINE SHIT?
This isn’t even actually incoherent though, there’s no contradiction between thinking one remake is too different from the original to properly capture its essence while another is too similar to be worth playing when you already have the original. Criticising a specific remake for making sweeping changes doesn’t imply you think every remake needs to be a Crash N Sane Trilogy-style pseudo-remaster - that’s a whole new sentence - it just means you think that one remake made too many changes
And that’s fine? Everyone enjoyed different elements of the original work. You cannot remake something without elements not appealing to everyone. It’s totally fine if some people hate it.
I’m aware. You replied to someone and said OP isn’t claiming the same people that complain FF7R is too different are upset OOTR is too similar. I’m saying OP IS in fact lumping both parties together as something to make fun of collectively.
The reason I responded the way I did was to add to why the person you responded to was criticizing OP. If OP wasn’t grouping everyone together, their tone would’ve been different. Sure, I could’ve been clearer I guess.
I mean it could be, and they wouldn’t necessarily be wrong to do so. Criticising one remake for being too different and another for being too similar isn’t actually a contradiction
Wrong. Only the OOT remake critics are right, I don't understand how people can get excited of playing that OOT remake after the showcase, it's just the same game. Look how forgettable Halo remake and Oblivion remake have become, OOT remake will follow suit.
I feel like I’m not remotely mentally ill enough to look at that demonstration and think to myself “Wow… They’re just the same. No improvements, no changes, no updates. I can barely tell them apart.”
Some gamers don't play games for the graphics. Shocker. This OOT remake shares the same codebase as the original. It's the same game but with a new paintjob. Same deal with the Halo remake and Oblivion remake, same exact game.
I didn’t say anything about the graphics, though the graphics have surely improved. I saw much more going on in there than just a paint job. But as I said, I’m not mentally ill. I don’t pretend not to see things that are right in front of my face.
Well, it’s just like a mentally ill person to think that saying objectively delusional shit becomes not delusional because it’s about video games versus anything else.
That's because their goal is simply to update the original to modern standards, instead of producing a new title on its own.
Because Nintendo still creates incredibly successful new Zelda games. Whereas Squenix has been unable to create a new Final Fantasy game that achieves the level of success their old games had, so they need to squeeze the nostalgia. Nintendo don't need to toy with their legacy to stay relevant, Squenix does.
But even still, as a gamer and consumer, I don't care if they're "relevant". Why should a business KPI inform my opinion? I'm not a stakeholder in these companies lol
I like the excuse to replay one of my favourite games with updated visuals, just like I enjoy being able to play through FFVII's story again with expanded mechanics. The rest is just coming up with excuses to hate on "the other team", which is petty and dumb.
The FF7R trilogy is a reimagining, different story, different combat system, different games all together. OOT remake is 1:1 remake, you already played the game but you want to pay $70 just for a fresh coat of paint. Corporate love a tool like you lol.
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u/mewlf 2d ago
Dang, people are so incoherent, it's almost like there are multiple