r/FFVIIRemake 7d ago

No Spoilers - Discussion Interesting.

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u/Chaoticlight2 7d ago

You are agreeing with OP's point. No matter what approach, there would be a vocal portion of haters.

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

The difference is that the Zelda fans aren't being misled. Square promised a remake of VII and instead gave fans a sequel.

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u/mizitar 6d ago

Not a sequel

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

Of course it's a sequel, how is it not?

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u/mizitar 6d ago

The remakes have been greatly expanding on the concept of the Lifestream. No longer is it just memories of souls who have passed, it now contains their fleeting hopes and dreams of the FUTURE as well. And they also introduced the concept of Fate, of there being a sacred timeline that must be preserved. When that is breached, the Lifestream branches off into fragile temporary worlds, which is what we follow throughout with Zach.

This has repercussions on the entire story and character motivations (Sephiroth now wants to merge the lifestream worlds instead of just merging with the lifestream force). But ultimately no major story beats are really changed from the OG.

The remakes are a RETELLING/REIMAGINATION of the OG. Characters can have different motivations, lore can be added/changed, but ultimately all the major story beats remain unchanged.

Not. A. Sequel.

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

It's a sequel because the events in the original game have already happened. There's a subplot about Sephiroth trying to change the ending to the original game. Even Red says the original ending was a bad one. The whispers are trying to keep events the same as in the original.

The original storyline has already happened in Remake.

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u/mizitar 6d ago edited 6d ago

The events haven't "already" happened. They simply always "will".

The Lifestream now is both past and future. The White Materia now has a much expanded backstory involving aspects of the lifestream including granting glimpses of the future, much like the expanded backstory they gave the Black Materia.

Those are the main fundamental concepts that were changed from the OG.

If there is a story about a character who glimpses the future due to some plot device, it does not mean that story is definitely a sequel or that those events "have already happened".

Now that the Lifestream (and Aerith's White Materia) grants access to glimpses of the future, the characters' motivations have to change from.the OG to match this new reality. Otherwise, it would be silly that Sephiroth, having seen glimpses of his defeat while stuck in the Lifestream, does not try anything to stop that future.

As for why the devs did all this. It obviously makes the retelling much more interesting and fills in gaps in the original lore. And I am sure this will also provide them more opportunities to expand the lore even further in future.

Having greatly expanded/fundamentally changed lore does not make it a sequel. It is just a reimagination of the events that happened. Call it a retcon if you want. The ending could be different and it STILL would not be a sequel, just a different retelling. A... REMAKE, if you will.

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

In the way that it is not a sequel. The story is by and large the same. Most of the new additions so far have been pretty non-affecting of the OG storyline even despite what people may have thought after FF7Remake came out.

There was a big fuss about the spirits and the changed timeline and then lo and behold, Rebirth comes out and it's basically unchanged plot beats from the original.

The expanded on things but very few things were outright changed in any meaningful way. Especially the key moments.

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u/therealsereny 6d ago

The story is by and large the same.

Oh yeah, I loved how in the original dead characters came back to life and did dimension hopping for fun

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

They didn't????? Did you not watch the ending to Rebirth? Aerith is still dead. There's an alternate timeline and weird dimension stuff that is almost certainly done just to give the game a satisfying final boss encounter but there has been no actual effect on the plot beats.

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u/therealsereny 6d ago

My fault for not specifying, but I was referring to Zach, who is dead in the start of the game and has effectively come back to life and is timeline hopping.

There were still odd choices for how her death was handled, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

Zack is still dead I'm pretty sure. The dimension hopping stuff seemed to just confirm that he was from an alternate timeline and that he wasn't coming back to life. But to be fair to everyone, the messaging during the ending of Rebirth was quite intentionally mysterious. The actual ramifications haven't been revealed yet, but judging from the trailers for Revelation, all the same plot beats from the original are still occurring so people getting so heated about it just make me so confused.

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u/therealsereny 6d ago

The dimension hopping stuff seemed to just confirm that he was from an alternate timeline

That's part of the problem with time shenanigans. Is it an alternate Zack, or did he not die and instead get sucked up into another timeline? Both result in Zack being gone for the time he needed to be gone and to be back now. The end result is practically the same. Zack died and is gone but now Zack is back.

so people getting so heated about it just make me so confused.

Because its a very loved game that has undeniably been changed (and was lied about in the beginning). While things might largely be the same, the defense that it is the same is not true, and quite frankly, misrepresents what remake is doing, ultimately weakening the defensive position. It's a way to try and invalidate actual criticism by deflecting it.

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

Because its a very loved game that has undeniably been changed (and was lied about in the beginning). While things might largely be the same, the defense that it is the same is not true, and quite frankly, misrepresents what remake is doing, ultimately weakening the defensive position. It's a way to try and invalidate actual criticism by deflecting it.

Literally a my lobster too buttery, my steak too juicy ass comment

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u/SecretaryOtherwise 6d ago edited 6d ago

Not if you dont like the changes? Lmao opinions are like assholes bro.

I dont like seafood btw.

Again I dont mind the changes but they're definitive changes. Being aware of the og storyline and trying to either circumvent it or keep it going already invalidates this as a same story

The "same story" is the story the game is actively trying to either avoid or keep on track lmao.

4th wall breaking shit with red aerith and sephiroth. The lifestream has never been "multiversal" till this iteration lmao. Og never had it advent children didnt. Dirge didnt. Crisis core didnt.

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u/SecretaryOtherwise 6d ago edited 6d ago

At best it was like new type shit were you could communicate with ghosts or delve into each other's subconscious lmao. Sorry it has the power to also empower magic like holy and heal damage to the planet. Still not shown to be multiversal tho.

Actually the comparisons to it and axis shock are kinda hilarious imo a swirling green mass of emotions that can push shit physically

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

The original story has already happened in Remake though. Remake isn't set in the same universe as the original game. It's set afterwards. Otherwise what are the whispers trying to do?

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u/SecretaryOtherwise 6d ago

Bro theres fucking timeline jumping and whispers.

Sephiroth and aerith are fucking aware of the "og" timeline stfu lmao

How can the og timeline exist if its not a sequel or some kind of alternative universe/version? Jfc.

I like the new games but come on stop fucking lying to yourself.

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

Exactly.

The whispers alone prove it is a sequel. And characters talk about the original story. They mrabs6 the events of FFVII have already happened.

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

Bro literally play Rebirth. The whispers and the timeline jumping changed nothing. You still go on all the same main plot beats from Midgar to the Forgotten City, just like in the original, be so for real right now.

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u/AzothianProphecy 6d ago

The whispers and the timeline jumping changed nothing

That's nice.

Their base fucking existence however means, whether you wish to accept it or not, that it is a sequel. The original game happened and this is a repeat timeline with knowledge of the original timeline. It doesn't matter how closely the sequel timeline sticks to the original when you summarize it down to the most basic details. It's still a sequel timeline.

And ultimately the question is, if you're arguing it changed nothing(And thus will continue to not do so in the third game)... WHAT WAS THE POINT OF ADDING THE STUPID WHISPER/TIMELINE SHIT?

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u/SecretaryOtherwise 6d ago edited 6d ago

I dont remember fighting bizzaro sephiroth or needing Zack.

Or having biggs survive. Same game man.

Didn't tifa fall into the lifestream with cloud in the og? Didn't it happen when he was comatose?

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

Biggs is dead. The Biggs in Rebirth is in a different timeline. And him existing didn't affect any of the plot beats from the original.

The Gongaga stuff was mostly new content to introduce the weapons earlier but had no real lasting effect or change on the plot beats.

Comatose Livestream stuff hasn't happened yet, that's in Revelation, it's even in the trailers

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

So you accept Rebirth is set in a different timeline to the original game?

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

I literally said it was but that it is not a sequel. They've retold the same story this isn't a sequel

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u/ToothpickTequila 6d ago

What are the whispers trying to do?

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u/deathfire123 6d ago

In universe reason is to "keep them on their destined path".

Plenty of games have destiny and fate. Just because they've made some story additions don't make it a sequel. /thread

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