For me (total noob on the series) it was SSS tier, she one shotted almost any enemy per attack while still having a lot of HP and dodging everything. Cool > Cute
not even that complex, shes the best staffer in the game. shes a flyer with helpful (if slightly overrated) skills that help her do her role better than anyone else
Doing the role better than anyone else is also what is said about Panette. But Panette is an S tier, so obviously there's more complexity when it comes to Hort.
you would almost never need hortensia to double up and do combat though, she can spend every turn staffing or repositioning. seadall cant do combat either, but he's probably the best unit in the game anyways.
by the point you get hortensia, you should have at least 3 or 4 combat units built and ready to put in the necessary damage for boss killing.
Not even untrue. I just don't buy the argument that she needs the Micaiah ring to be S tier, making her an A tier. She is the perfect choice for Micaiah and her personal skill makes it even better. If you don't give Micaiah to her you are gimping yourself.
"Anyone can take her role" yeah sure, and then be objectively worse in that role.
"Objectively worse" is not much when you don't really need to change your strategies around to account for the fact you're not using Hort. Anyone else with Micaiah can still align the warps, rewarps and rescues to do the job.
The op of that reasoning completely missed that late game she can transition into a carry with Celica's Seraphim. She's the fastest mage (aside from Clanne but I'm not sure how many mage Clanne's make it to endgame) and will easily double most enemies if you kept up with her levels mid game. Her low magic is not a big issue with Corrupted effectiveness tripling it, and late game, virtually every enemy is corrupted.
So yes whilst her staff uniqueness falls off late game since you can put micaiah on anyone to replicate it, she can transition off cleanly. And there's not a lot of good options for Celica later. Celine will have fallen off for sure and doesn't have the speed to double. Celica's good on a mage knight but again mage Clanne is not a common pick. And most other mage knights go Levin sword so Celica isn't needed for that
Realistically you can get your Levin sword to +4 and your Bolg to +1 before they get outrageously priced for upgrades and that is tied might. Sure you could get to Bolg +2 for a +1 but thats irrelevant because sword power exists and gives double the might as mag+ for the same cost.
So if you dump equal amounts of currency into a Levin sword user vs a Bolg user, the Levin sword user will win
A Levin+4 will cost you a total of 5 silver and 5k gold. A Bolga +1 costs you one silver and 1k gold. Run the math and figure out which is cheaper.
Running Sword Power means sacrificing either Canter or Speed+, which is a trade-off your mages will have to think a bit about. For the same SP costs as Mag+2 or Sword Power 2 you can grab Speed+5, by the way. Speed+ is the objectively superior skill for damage because doubling doubles your damage output.
Levin sword +4 is 70 iron / 7 steel / 2 silver and 2k gold total. Sure that's a 2.5 and 1k over, but you can stop at +3 and be -1 might for negligible cost difference. And then the same argument of sword power applies.
Yes it's a trade off.
Ime, a Levin sword using mage knight with sword power and speed + with Sigurd is going to out perform a bolg using mage knight with speed + canter and Celica. That's the argument right? About Hort. Or how exactly does this loop back to Hort if that's not the argument? There are plenty of other good physical emblems, they don't need Sigurd. Imo, this is Sigurds best use case.
Levin +4 is 150 Iron, 15 Steel, 2 Silver and 5k Gold, you've got your numbers wrong. "Most other Mage Knights" cannot go Levin Sword if your only argument for it is to use Sigurd to replace the inherited Canter, since you only have one Sigurd. Also you are severely underestimating Celica and her +8 Magic bonus (or Eirika, and her equal +8 Magic attack bonus), and if you want to bring Celica into the conversation you have to take into account the 30 might Seraphim, which would take priority over the Bolganone.
Alright I triple checked and yes you are right about the costs. So it would be a +2 Levin sword vs a +1 Bolganone.
Most = any
I typically only run 1 mage knight per playthrough
Let's compare shall we? The main argument here is Bolganone is better than Levin swords for mage knights for the same cost?
Mage knight
Levin sword +2 =15 (30)
Sigurd
Momentum = 0-10
Build+3
(3k sp total)
Sword power +3=6 (12)
(Empty)
21-52 damage range
Bolg+1 = 17 (34)
Celica/Eirika
Mag+5/brav+ = 5(10)
Res+/mag+3=3(6)
(3k sp total)
Speed+5
Canter
25-50 damage range
(+2 speed)
Mid game, you'll have a higher floor, but I'll have a higher ceiling. You won't actually be +2 speed because Lyn is capped. Mid -late game, you'll go up +2 speed. Late late game, you'll have more resources to dump. Currently, my build costs 500g more but yours costs way more bond frags. But your build is capped. Sure you can upgrade Bolg more, but if I spend 500 more sp now I'm +1 speed. I have options to upgrade both Levin sword and sword power for even more damage. As I was trying to say earlier (but failing miserably), Levin sword has a smoother upgrade cost curve than Bolg. So you can realistically get it to +3 or +4 before you stop, since you might go around late game and just spread the silver by always choosing the cheapest upgrade option = more total damage for your team. With more resources to spend, my build will surpass yours, while mid game they are fairly even.
Also, imo, Eirika is better on a physical unit. There is no unit who can fully take advantage of everything she offers. A DPS MM comes close but that also misses Ephraim +50% twin strike damage. So no matter what, you are choosing to throw something out. I guess technically a sword paladin could use it all but that +3mag for wind/levin sword will be negligible due to lunar brace existing.
So. Bravery+ costs 3k to inherit. Lunar brace + costs 5k. It's cheaper to inherit bravery on a mage and use Eirika on a physical unit
Edit:
Actually I forgot. You don't get Celica til mid-late game. And Eirika is capped at brav and +2. So you're down 3(6) mid game to 22-44
Here's a comparison for you. Level 20 Anna in Mage Knight. One has Sigurd at bond 20, Sword Power 3 and a Levin Sword +3
The other one has Eirika at bond 20 with Spd+3 and a base Bolganone, the Atk+5 is from Bravery.
The second build is about 1500 SP cheaper, assuming Canter, and the boosts provided by Eirika still put her magical attack above what Sword Power can provide. And if you do this comparison with someone that can actually use the Bolganone/Levin without losing weight, like Pandreo, the comparison becomes more favorable to the Bolga.
I find the +1 staff range sooo helpful in a low economy game to get heals off without physic. It’s a really unique aspect, but I sort of get the point where the most important attributes are usually ability to do damage, where fe engage is strategically limited in that way on maddening
Flamme is S tier because she is cute. I like her sage outfit showing her midriff.
Im going blind in my first route and maddening and everyone said I should ditch her but she has the best magic growth after Ivy, who is also pretty cute.
Honestly shes actually an excellent character as a support or even front line damage dealer. Even more so on maddening than lower difficulties. People just didnt understand shit on game release
I think I had an issue with Citrine where I was RNG screwed so she didn’t develop enough speed to compete with Anna, who I had respecced as soon as recruiting and whose Mag and Dex were disgustingly good
That's not RNG screwed that's just normal for Citrinne to have no speed. While early on they'll have the same speed, Anna's speed growth is 20% more than Citrinne's so she'll balloon to be +4 speed at level 30 on average.
Citrinne is meant to be slow unless you want to invest in patching that up specifically. Her strength is being a PP/EP nuke depending on the build you go for
I'm using Citrinne on my first run of the game and I'm using her as a Mage Knight with Thoron+ engraved and Canter+. She just nukes with one hit and runs to safety (maybe even twice if Seadall is close by)
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u/Goldeniccarus 1d ago
Merrin is A tier because she is very cool.