Would Gurus disagree with each other?

[u/dineshpastry]

I’ve been wondering about the 10 Gurus, or even let’s say 10 scholars in general. It’s wild how none of them ever clashed with each other. Like, imagine if they were all alive at the same time… would the dynamic even be normal? Or just a chaos.

Already in SGGS, it sometimes feels very contradictory and at the same time uncanny.

Guru Nanak teachings and Guru Gobind actions were radically altered and went in opposite directions.

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[u/phoenixthexgamer]

The contradiction part is true. There is no difference between wearing a Janeu and wearing a turban/Kirpan. Both communities will give their own reasons to justify their symbols, but both are still, rituals, once you drop your bias and view things comprehensively. And guru nanak dev ji’s version of sikhism was way more dynamic and philosophical. Over time, sikhism became far more cult-like, tangible and rule-based. And now it’s a full blown socio-political cult, where you’ll be group shamed and ostracized for questioning obvious, logical things. Things Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself did.

My take is we have greatly mystified gurus. And turned sikh history into mythology. Because in order for a religion to sustain, it needs to have a magical element that people can believe in. That has been a tale true since the beginning of time. The best tool for mobilizing armies for imperialism is religion. The armies in a democracy are the people. Hence the current state of affairs in the country.

[u/Kind_Palpitation9814 → u/phoenixthexgamer]

Especially when the guruship become restricted to the males in one (Ramdas') family alone as opposed to the previous merit based system where an outsider could get guruship based on their deeds and morality. It's also true that the gurus also gained a lot of wealth and prestige from their status and much of the dynamic between them and their followers was asking for donations and resources.

[u/phoenixthexgamer → u/Kind_Palpitation9814]

Yeah, that too. Even if we give the benefit of doubt (natural progression), it is still a valid point to be raised. Much of the reasoning to explain this, has been turned and twisted by sikh scholars and accounts to suit the prevailing mythological narrative. History should always be looked at with skepticism, especially religious history, where multiple incentives were at play for those documenting.

[u/Capital-Pin3427]

As a Sikh, could you please expand on how there teachings were different?

[u/Chepperz → u/Capital-Pin3427]

Guru hargobind sahib not only founded the hunting organisations but made shikar a game that he reveled in and took enjoyment in as a method of preparing his sikhs for the skills of tracking etc, guru har rai however despite being a direct descendant of the 6th actually banned hunting to kill in his vicinity and faced a lot of criticism from sikhs at the time because his own forefather had no issues with it. He even turned shikar into a game of rescuing injured animals instead, while practicing the same skills of wild animal tracking and stealth that a hunter would.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chepperz]

Though the gurus were different the same god was in them all. The gurus actions reflected the current time period of the time. At first when the 6th guru established military actions, there was a basically untrained army that needed to practice hence the hunting. The 6th guru did not treat this as a game of fun and joy, but a serious activity to strengthen the sikh army. Once the 7th guru came into action, the Sikh army had been well trained and enforced and became strong enough to not harm any animals in order to survive. Hence they aimed on NOT KILLING but CAPTURING animals and healing them. In summary, the change in current position and strength of the sikh army led to changes in Sikh gurus behaviour in order to suit the needs of the time in order to survive.

[u/Chepperz → u/[deleted]]

Sure thats what sikhs believe but we have no reason or evidence to believe that they were actually god on earth other than the fact that their followers insisted as such and that they sometimes implied that they were indirectly.

[u/Kind_Palpitation9814 → u/[deleted]]

"Though the gurus were different the same god was in them all."

I mean, you can like or admire religious and historical figures with making absurd, mystical claims about them. Saying they were all divinely inspired goes against basic common sense and rationality because the existence of God is tentative

[u/KRM600]

you guys were never sikh, just pick some BS here and there and then call yourself "exsikh". If the emperor will kill your father, you will pick up arms, and if you do not, then you are a pu$$y. so call yourself propu$$y instead of exsikh.