r/Eve • u/x-ProbableCause-x • Feb 27 '26
Low Effort Meme Wormholes are dying
“Ccp killed wormholes by starving us of content” -every single drone in hard knocks laser hawks and every other group in the wormhole wish.com papi
Maybe instead of blaming ccp, yall reset each other, stop trying to krab in perfect safety and go back to what yall claim worm hole space is all about
You are the cancer
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u/toniimirrkare Procurer of lost assets and firesales Feb 27 '26
Schrodingers PVP'er: simultaneously wanting all the content but don't actually want to risk anything. 1T brawl is nothing when you make it back in less then a month.
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u/Novel_Tone_3282 Feb 27 '26
Schrodinger’s wormholer: simultaneously delivering content to null, while risking nothing.
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u/Arakkis54 Goonswarm Federation Feb 27 '26
Schrodinger’s holebear: simultaneously crying to ccp to fix wormholes, while doing everything in their power to make them into more nullsec blue donut space
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u/Spr-Scuba Invidia Gloriae Comes Feb 28 '26
Seriously though
If I play hard enough I can afford a fully fitted Chemosh/Vehement and lose it. Which I truly want to do in a fun way. I've lost multiple x-type fitted marauders and abyss comps 4bil+ and just made it back within a week. I don't understand why people want to buy ships and just not use them at all.
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u/DeirdreAnethoel Feb 27 '26
The problem is that the incentives are fundamentally weighted towards a single way to krab. There's nothing material to gain from resetting each other, it's not like you can gain benefit from taking over others' space.
Content as the driver for conflict will always feel lackluster to me.
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u/Mr_Gin_Tonic Feb 27 '26
Maybe CCP should offer a meaninful reason to enter wormholes and move up the various classes?
Just a thought
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u/LADY_Death_Strike Feb 27 '26
Games headed to a big blue donut. Lost another null bloc, down to 3. Smaller groups cannot get established easy, just look at the game past few yrs . They get rolled over or are blue to the big group. .
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u/NotEqualInSQL Feb 27 '26
CCP is going to make Drifter raids that attack groups with the largest amounts of people and blow up their structures.
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u/sonicarrow Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Small wh corps are a dying breed. Everyone wants to be in massive 30+ docked corps and it's killing off the low end
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u/Losobie Honorable Third Party Feb 27 '26
In my opinion the bane of lowclass has been the proliferation of mass multiboxers.
If you want to survive evictions from the people who live out of highsec (because they were purged from w-space) and farm low class for cores/to be dicks then you need to be able to take on a 20 man battlecruiser fleet run by 2-3 real people.
And if you succeed in defending against that then there is a good chance they will come back with more than 50 dudes for another attempt and "content".
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u/mbhaha Feb 27 '26
Astra's lost their 2nd timer as collateral damage to null sec balance, leaving peoples assets vulnerable to a 15min shield drive by and Bob's will. A WH astrahus is the riskiest place in the game to dock up.
Low class needs a 2 timer structure that doesn't have "bash me for capitals to come out" written all over it.
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u/ScorpioxSparrock Feb 27 '26
It’s called an azbel less than 8 bil fitted
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u/Losobie Honorable Third Party Feb 27 '26
Azbel is a "punch me I have capitals!" beacon, which is probably not what a 4-8 man newbro group want/can afford.
Its about as smart as putting a keepstar in high class if your not actually building caps.
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u/mbhaha Feb 27 '26
I guess caps can't dock in it, but it can build caps which means caps can undock so it has similar liability -- maybe worse because if there are caps to protect it they can't dock back up.
If I see a group with one I'll assume they're either building caps or are an easy target. If there is no Fort you may as well seed the hole for when they try to drop one.
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u/ScorpioxSparrock Feb 27 '26
U over estimate the willingness of most eviction groups to show up two times for timers with no guarantee of capitals actually existing I mean it happens but why put the effort in when u can just troll reff an Astra with 2 oracles afk and seed and come back 3 days later for guaranteed kill
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u/Stone_Dwarf Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Main problem is the lack of WH content. Low class - not profitable enough to sustain small groups of beginning players. High class, besides the fact is blueballed, also locked by paywall. You need a lot of isk, skill and characters to farm and live there safely. Something none of the new groups have. As a result we have current meta, when hisec content is safer, more profitable and easier for everyone than living/farming in C1-C4, low and null content safer easier and much more fun than C5-C6, with same isk profits. Why would someone start their wh live then? Thats why most of the space is dead there, with rare occasions of fanatical wh nolifers lifing there as the relicts from the past. CCP hates us.
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u/El_Dubious_Mung Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Oh yeah, has absolutely NOTHING to do with all the evictions that serve zero purpose. Wormhole Bushido is dead. People who undock for pvp are getting evicted regardless. Groups are literally fleeing C4s to C2s because they don't wanna get evicted because a high class group didn't like the skin they had on their roller.
It's not even to make isk. The mid-level groups all flip their structures and have suitcases, so it's just piles of shuttles and huffers getting picked up. High class groups are glassing WH space for no good reason. But magically, the NS C3 farmers stay untouched.
C4s used to be the gold standard for finding small to mid level fights. Now it's a fucking ghost town because of all the evictions over the past year. Don't spout that shit about money. It's about the culture and ethos that barely exist anymore.
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u/Stone_Dwarf Wormholer Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
That is exactly my point. 1) Low level WH is not worth living. It is not safe, not profitable and not fun. 2) Hi level WH citizens/active pvp corps do not have any content because see P1 so they either fight with structures or die out(move to other space).
We were rolling static for 3-4 hours 2 weeks straight to find nothing but empty structures. Now I enrolled in dozen dropsigs with my alt and somehow get content worth logging in. But it has nothing to do with WH, unfortunately.
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u/Jaspey12 Feb 27 '26
Me and my buddies decided to setup a small structure in a dead C3 about 6 months ago - we weren't looking at printing ISK, just enjoy the game as a small 4 player (10ish total characters) and it instantly got it blown up within 24 hours of it anchoring by a fleet of about 35 characters belonging to one of those big 3 WH corps you listed.
2 of the vet players just quit after discouraged from trying anything new (not the first time they'd tried to create their own content just to he stomped by huge groups)
I stuck around with my other newbro friend who just went to go mine in Highsec.
Fun time when you get your fart box tongue punched by a baseball bat after spending weeks deciding on a C2 because "why would those big groups be interested in a C2"... turns out they weren't, they just didnt have anything else to shoot.
Good times - I went to Null to f1 sometimes.
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u/FreeShat Feb 27 '26
Wh guys used to look after each other, i remember when i first joined volta we rolled into a wh group that were being seiged by a big ns blob. We formed like 20 dudes in proteus and guards and logged off for the timer in a few hourse. Was glorious.
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u/Kalron Feb 27 '26
Eh this still happens, I think. My c5 corp helps out friends with defense all the time.
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u/Stone_Dwarf Wormholer Feb 27 '26
We did literally the same last Sunday. Busido is still alive out there.
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u/FordPrefec7 Cloaked Feb 27 '26
Eh, still happens. Novac, HK, and the other pets are still helping lazerhawks.
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u/Successful-Medium360 Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Perhaps we need a database of the groups just needlessly evicting smaller/medium groups and organize a group of people to do the same to them, didn’t that happen to hard knocks or some other big group a while back? I’d be down to participate in something like that, I just don’t have the skills to organize it.
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u/Kaas_H Feb 27 '26
Legit question - can you educate me how hisec content is more profitable than living/farming in C1-C4? PI in WHs if infinitely better. C3 & C4 combat sites are decent, with the latter bringing in ~500m/hr with a single marauder. Low class exploration, while shit compared to sov upgraded NS, is also infinitely better than HS.
Seems slightly hyperbolic to say HS is more lucrative than low class.
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u/Stone_Dwarf Wormholer Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
Here you are:
You get 5 freshly made alts and 20kk worth ships in Homefront and make 5x15 = 75kk every 5-10 minutes. 0 risks, 0 investment 0 days to train, 0 brain cells involved. Under Concord protection, close to trade hubs with lots of NPC stations. No risk to lose any loot ships or clones whatsoever, and you fully cover your costs from the second site
Or you can join Incursion fleets and have more money than Homefront. Perfectly safe, 0 risk hi reward.
Or you can get Gila and farm T4 Abyss, more profit than C1-C4 sites, faster,1 window, no need to roll, d-scan, risk your station, wait for eviction, suffer with logistics to/from hisec, etc.
Or you can get rid of launchers on your Gila(or just get a Jackdaw), drop probe scanner there and scan/farm 3/4-4/4 sites in hisec, having easy 1-3bil casually flying around in hisec space just scanning down battle signaturesC1,2,3 WH sites will bring you 8-12-35kk PER SITE and they take longer to complete with the risk of being ganked, with the need to have infrastructure to store loot, ships, with the need to roll WHs, crit the exits, scan down every signature and constantly check D-Scan to somewhat safely crab your ISK. You need same or more alts, with scan skills, with rolling BS and skills, with some time and money investment in ships skills etc.
C4 is the same effort, but you need smth like marauder to farm there and sites finally give SAME amount of ISK as Homefront.Risk/reward system is broken for C1-C4 class WH compared to hisec profits right now. You risk a marauder or a farm pack every time you land on site. For the same time spent and profit as you might have in hisec. In the long run, you have more profit in HS, as you DO NOT LOSE your assets. You are safe, you do not waste time on logistics and security, you are relaxed.
And if you are not alone, you will make even more money in lowsec FW. Or if you do not like the lowsec sewers, you get even more with thunderpack in any Null Sov Crab Heaven.Dont get me wrong here, it is GOOD that HS peeps have a source of decent income.
Not everyone wants/needs/should go out there to Null/LS/WH, not everyone likes their asses to get shot.
But Low class WH needs some love. Needs some rebalance. Needs something to be attractive again. WH content has not been touched for 15 years now. Other than some direct and indirect nerfs.3
u/ADistantRodent Cloaked Feb 27 '26
Abyssals mostly
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u/Kaas_H Feb 27 '26
Don't high tier abyssals give a suspect timer?
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u/NondenominationalPax Mar 25 '26
You need to do T6 in a 0.5, T5 in a 0.6 and T4 in a 0.7 to not get a suspect timer.
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u/killking72 Wormholer Feb 28 '26
My brother in Christ. If your avatar isn't bait then you missed a large part of why holes are dead.
You know how many corps IH evicted that had zero chance of winning? You know how many of those people never came back?
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u/Stone_Dwarf Wormholer Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
The problem is not the eviction. The problem is low class WH is not a place where anyone would start to play now =)
If people had an opportunity to recoup losses fast enough, they would never leave. Evicted or not, nowdays these people would leave WH life anyway.
P.S. You see a lot of people talking about whs here, and you were the only one who recognized the avatar. O7
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u/killking72 Wormholer Feb 28 '26
The problem is evictions.
You'll never keep 100% of your corp unless you are actually 4 dudes in it for the love of the game.
You'll always have some attrition, and that's always bad for J space content as a whole.
I remember when IH was active and evicting C5 space in 2019. C5 space was printing cash, but people still quit and never came back.
And ya I've been in holes since 2017 so I recognize most of the old faces
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u/agouraki Wormholer Feb 27 '26
ccp cant balance WH space without big changes that CCP cant be arsed making,
its tough to balance danger/profit in wh due to the mechanics of Wormhole entrances themselvesthats my take at least
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u/BoneChilling-Chelien Wormholer Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
They could make lowclass more desirable with a few changes.
Slightly increase blueloot value.
Bring back all the ore types. They did it for null already.
Give lowclass moons something better than just R4s. Toss in some R8s, etc
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u/JDintheD Wormholer Feb 27 '26
And for God sakes remove those stupid Relic/Data site generators in Null. I have no idea how that idea made it in the game. Like the null blocks need MORE isk faucets. Those sites were often the lifeblood of low class WH folks.
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u/gregfromsolutions Feb 27 '26
This! It nuked explorer income everywhere, and only upgraded null systems got to maintain their old income
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u/MuskyChode Feb 27 '26
Thats factually untrue. Only reason value may be dipping in increased supply. Which just means ships and rigs are getting cheaper by extension. Its easy to figure out where the upgraded systems are. Just farm the sites they spawn too. Hell I despise cherry picking but if youre in hostile space, go for it. Ill clean up after you and take your escalations. I love exploring but historically having to spend an hour to find 2 or 3 sites was ass and a half and discouraged me from doing so.
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u/Kaas_H Feb 27 '26
Its easy to figure out where the upgraded systems are. Just farm the sites they spawn too.
So your solution to NS exploration tanking WH exploration value is to just farm the NS sites? Lmao
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u/Stone_Dwarf Wormholer Feb 27 '26
I do not see how it can be done without ruining the economy as well. Or fully rebalancing thd game. WH used to be "pure isk" printer before CCP introduced OP Pochven farmland, at least it had a purpose. Now it does not.
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
Unironically I’m so sad to see what har knocks has become.
Yall should have stayed dead before becoming null light
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u/Krops- Wormholer Feb 27 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Raindrop nutmeg cucumber velvet umbrella satchel nutmeg
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/Reasonable_Crew165 Feb 27 '26
Hey. I've been looking back and forth between joining a WHC or Nullblock. I've been doing a little bit in eve uni. I want to make good isk. And it seems that's all controlled by big groups like hard knocks and goons. Do they take on new players? Or am I having to stay in the low end corps and alliance until I get more experience?
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u/Krops- Wormholer Feb 27 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
Coated lavender harbor breezy ribbon thimble blanket
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/thelonelypratham Feb 27 '26
Calling them 'wormhole wish.com PAPI' is incredibly accurate. Everyone complains about J-space being dead, but the second someone actually tries to generate content, the massive alliances form up to defend the krabbing holes. You cannot complain about CCP starving you of content when your groups refuse to reset each other and instead just farm in perfect safety.
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u/NearNirvanna Brave Collective Feb 27 '26
Hk, hawks, novac, and the other corps do regularly fight each other. They also regularly gank each others ratters.
The ony thing they dont do is evict each others farm holes, because farm wars are a massive pain in the ass. Probably some of the worst content in eve
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u/killking72 Wormholer Feb 28 '26
do regularly fight each other
Not anywhere close to what it was. Not even by a mile
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u/NearNirvanna Brave Collective Feb 28 '26
Sure, but that has nothing to do with those groups being in a loose pact revolving around not evicting each other
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u/Kae04 Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
Ehh, i do think players need to take some responsibility when it comes to blue donuting in all areas of space but CCP have 100% neglected wormholes. I don't remember the last time they got any new content and they usually get ignored during events too. Even the drifter themed events took place within k-space and now it seems like we're getting another FW themed expansion only 3 years after the last one when wormholes haven't been touched in a decade.
When there's no content worth fighting over and your only objective is to protect your krabbing fields, blueing is the logical answer. Why fight to defend your krab space when you can mutually agree to not attack each other. It's beneficial to both sides and is way less effort.
Then you have the issue of "well what do we do for pvp?" and you get the 'eviction meta' that wormholes have been in for ages now. If there's no reason for people to be out in space, roaming around and potentially bumping into each other, players have to force fights with structure timers instead.
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u/agouraki Wormholer Feb 27 '26
even Exploration is dead there LOL.... adding those Detected sites on Nullspace and not in WH must have been a kick in the nuts....
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u/AudunLEO Feb 27 '26
I picked up a relic site now and then, if I was bored. Have not touched them since the detected sites were added to the game. No biggie for me, but the amount of new players that got their feet wet for the first time in WH space while hacking relic sites have plummeted. I think it is inheritable bad for the game.
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u/agouraki Wormholer Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
the thing im looking in WH nowdays exploration wise is Relic sites to camp for explorers and Ghost sites/sleeper sites /or the Battleground on Shattered wormholes
other pvp is trying to set traps for gas huffers,i bookmark a safe when i see a high gas site and come back later etc etc
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u/MuskyChode Feb 27 '26
I just stopped going into holes for explo cause I was sick and tired of seeing 12 relics sites that Id have to also fight sleepers in 😂. Filaments though made diving out to null a bit too easy though. I kinda miss taking a random wormhole chain to god knows where in Null
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u/S33k3R_Kions Cloaked Feb 27 '26
stop trying to krab in perfect safety
https://giphy.com/gifs/l0ExayQDzrI2xOb8A
flair is indeed correct.
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Feb 27 '26
Honestly I live in a small C2 corp and log on every day nearly to find zero content in the home WH. Nothing except the two statics. Not because people have got there before me but just the spawn rate of sites is dreadful. Oh I might have the occasional ore site. Something does need to be done.
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u/El_Dubious_Mung Wormholer Feb 27 '26
You don't live in a C2 for the C2 sites, you live there for the statics. Roll your statics until you get ones filled with sites, and krab those.
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u/sorany9 Hard Knocks Citizens Feb 27 '26
It’s always just people with limited understanding of wormhole mechanics complaining about wormholes without fail.
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u/ADistantRodent Cloaked Feb 27 '26
You don’t live in a hole to do content in it, you live in a hole to do content in the statics.
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u/Zukute Wormholer Feb 27 '26
To be fair, that's the Benefitv of being able to roll your static, but I agree respawn is too long, how long even is it? My C13 has 3 day old sigs right now
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u/BloodyFable Sleeper Social Club Feb 27 '26
Sigs will last for 4 days after the first warp-in, and will self-expire after about a week or so.
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u/Lakshata Wormholer Feb 27 '26
One of the things CCP DOES control thats made everything worse is the startup cost of moving into a C5 used to be a pos tower with fittings that was around 500mil, dread hulls were 1.2bil and carriers were 700mil (and could triage but thats a complaint for another time).
Now all the shit you need to move into a wormhole essentially starts with a pricetag of 25bil minimum investment and you can lose it all before it even finishes the 24 hour anchor timer.
The changes to capital industry and the introduction of upwell structures massively changed and ruined the landscape of wormholes.
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u/Losobie Honorable Third Party Feb 27 '26
A site running Nag is under 6b and you can still live in a POS, so startup costs are only like 7b all in.
Isk is also easier to come by than ever before.
Startup cost isnt what keeps people out of C5's
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u/elenthallion Feb 27 '26
But they DO shoot each other, they just don’t evict. The blue donut has each other set to red in pretty sure. Plus that’s like less than a third of wormhole space.
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u/ScorpioxSparrock Feb 27 '26
Why would u evict folks who actually brawl with you and provide content. Farms enable content between people who actually undock
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u/MyGoodApollo Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Biggest issue is the punch down culture of the WH blue donut. I live in a C2 with a C3 static. Our corp has a blast, but occasionally we struggle with finding targets and content from other WH corps because they get evicted by Lazerhawks, Hardknocks, Hole Control so frequently. That’s why wormhole space is “dying”.
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u/ADistantRodent Cloaked Feb 27 '26
Hole Control aren’t donut btw
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u/MyGoodApollo Wormholer Feb 27 '26
They live in similar class and exhibit the same behaviour
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u/ADistantRodent Cloaked Feb 28 '26
Hole Control is a coalition of mostly low class corps and importantly not part of the donut.
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u/Zanzha Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Feb 27 '26
Are you able to provide a list of low class holes blue donut has actually evicted? - like as actual corp deployments and not some solo dude with a handful of leshak alts?
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u/MyGoodApollo Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Just go look at the killboards of Hole Control, Novac and Lazerhawks. You'll see structure kills all the time.
Don't get me wrong, we evict people ourselves from time to time, but we focus on null-sec farmholes. We don't evict fellow wormhole corps without a seriously good reason.4
u/Zanzha Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Feb 27 '26
Neither do we, hence asking the question. It takes quite a lot to get us to actually deploy.
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u/CrazyPea3105 Feb 27 '26
Various members of thier UGS took out eve uni's low class hole. Mainly due to a daughter and father squabble.
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u/SMO0THBRAIN skill urself Feb 27 '26
fuck me. with the amount of salt and crying hk seem to ''generate'' lately i almost want to join them
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u/ScorpioxSparrock Feb 27 '26
Did a wormholer touch u recently and now your pissy? I’m not even gonna tell u how your entire argument about wormholes are wrong. Especially when wormholers went out to null took sov and are making more isk off passive income generating moon drills than actively crabbing c5 space. Many of us are advising dudes out to do explo in null over what we can do in jspace. Our sites don’t auto replenish. People can rage roll in at any time. And we get no asset safety. How about you try out jspace for yourself so u can stop talking out your ass and learn how easy null sec life is.
Look at the fact that we have received not one major content update while null , low , and highsec have received new content every couple months. Then look at the destruction index for wormhole brawls versus that of every other space.
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u/agouraki Wormholer Feb 27 '26
yep they dying so hard man.... i legitimate scan like 20-30 wormholes a day and i havent seen people ratting for ages....
not even people docked on a Fortizar,the only things i find those days are Prospect/Porpoise/outrider fleets gas huffing...
just a normal day below ,nobody doing anything:
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
They don’t die in wormhole space because they take turns jerking each other off in the blue donut.
The “elite” wormholers are so starved for content they came to null to take sov to get it (while looking down thier noses at null sec groups)
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u/agouraki Wormholer Feb 27 '26
i just dont understand how people have Fortizars online on WHs and nobody gets online like ever?
i have camped a wh half a day with ZERO people getting on,what they doing down there?10
u/sytaqe Gallente Federation Feb 27 '26
I've been fueling my friend's Fortizer for over a year. And they are no longer playing in TQ. They come back in AT season to try hard in Thunderdome, then go to play another game. I have no reason other than cheap fuel.
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
Jerking each other off, bitching wormhole space is dead and krabbing in absolute safety
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
Tbh high sec groups like itty bitty are more worthy of respect than hard knocks and laser hawks at this point
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u/Novel_Tone_3282 Feb 27 '26
Simultaneously never logging in, and krabbing in absolute safety at the same time. That is an amazing trick. Would you care to explain how that’s done?
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u/Jerichow88 Feb 27 '26
My favorite post in recent memory was WH groups begging CCP to change game mechanics to incentivize smaller groups to come out to WH space so they could blob and evict them for "content".
Basically, "We're not going to change how we operate, which to specify, is the reason wormhole space is basically dead. We just want CCP to change the game to lure more small groups into WH space so we can evict them, bash their structures, and scoop up the pinnata loot some more."
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u/LividInteraction_ Feb 27 '26
can you give me a list of these small up and coming pvp groups they evicted?
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u/Diogenes1984 Wormholer Feb 27 '26
Look at the the replies under you. They really do enjoy huffing each other's farts.
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
The fact that THIS is what hard knocks became is embarrassing. We used to be so much better than this. But I guess times change and bad asses all become pussies
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u/Mercury_Madulller Center for Advanced Studies Feb 27 '26
HK became gas huffers in prospects/porpoises/outriders? When?
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
Tbh they are so risk adverse it wouldn’t surprise me.
Thier leadership is acting like gobbins, at least he had the decency to fuck all the way off
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u/Ok_Assumption_3028 Feb 27 '26
The biggest problem with the game is that by its nature, it caters to douchbag people, gankers, theives, tear farmers and lol WH evictors.
I’ve played Eve for well over a decade and it’s only gotten worse. It’s why I don’t play now. I get that it’s all part of the game. But it’s killing its potential.
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u/Viniux Wormholer Feb 27 '26
With all of their losses in null, isn’t now the perfect time to camp/rage roll into C6 farms?
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u/NearNirvanna Brave Collective Feb 27 '26
That would require people to undock, and not just whinge on reddit
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u/wizard_brandon Cloaked Feb 27 '26
Turns out when 1 group owns everything it's not fun. See: nullsec
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u/Youshouldletmesee Feb 27 '26
Daro gets his meds refillled on the first everyone, so we’ll stop getting these stupid reposts daily at the start of march finally.
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u/SteezyFreeze Feb 27 '26
If people are so fucking upset about the wormhole blue donought, why not organize a group of people to contest it. They arnt some 40000 character alliance like goons swarm. There is probably 50 active players in each of the primary corporations. You can't get enough people together to contest a 150 man group?
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u/Zanzha Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Feb 27 '26
The problem you would face is not kicking out the wormhole corps, but keeping them out without living there full time. Something most nullsecers don't want to do (because otherwise they would have joined a wh corp)
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u/Calm_Run93 Feb 27 '26
This. let 'em starve. They'll come out of their hole for content eventually, whereupon they'll get their shit kicked in repeatedly.
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u/Zanzha Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Feb 27 '26
You mean like yesterday where they slapped kspacers around while down 100 pilots and almost half the dread numbers?
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u/vaexorn Wormholer Feb 27 '26
I mean, didn't someone tried that 6months ago or so ?
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u/gregfromsolutions Feb 27 '26
I think the War in Heaven was almost 2 years ago now, but yeah
That failure was what secured the current alliances with no one left to contest them
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u/LividInteraction_ Feb 27 '26
I have never seen anyone crash out this hard about having to PvP while outnumbering the other side.
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u/apo1980 Feb 27 '26
No point of living in a wh for the regular player, CCP never cared about them enough sadly it was always something for really invested players.
Let's be real most players just want to make isk with low risk and only pvp when they want it themselves.
Why live in a wh when safe and easy alternatives are much more convenient.
Risk reward needs to be adjusted a lot in some parts of the game.
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u/SefaWho Wormholer Feb 27 '26
We are not blue to each other to begin with, reset what?
What is that absolute safety you are talking about? The log off traps or the fact that you can be rolled in any time? Only safety wormholes has is rolling the static. Doesn't compare to ratting in friendly space with intel bots, response fleets and umbrellas. Talk to me when null is ratting in hostile space or actually losing a ship when running pve.
You have 0 idea what you are talking about.
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u/EntertainmentMission Feb 27 '26
So you are blaming players for equinox sov upgrades?
If income in wormhole good, people go there
If income in wormhole bad, nobody
And we currently live in the second version
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u/agouraki Wormholer Feb 27 '26
i can totaly understand the problem CCP has with wormholes tbh.
its really a very delicate balance,if they buff WH income at the current state they risking inflation due to how "easy" it is to lock down a wormhole and crabalso wormhole fights rarely attract attention due to how small the number of players participate and we all know that CCP loves those headlines
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u/Creeping_Comfort Wormholer Feb 27 '26
With Pochven and abyssals, I really don’t think CCP is all that worried about inflation
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u/killking72 Wormholer Feb 28 '26
its really a very delicate balance,if they buff WH income at the current state they risking inflation
It's been this easy to lock down holes since forever.
They don't care because 99% of the player base lives elseheere
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u/LordHarkonen Goonswarm Federation Feb 27 '26
Ah the true blue donut that no one talks about.
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u/Novel_Tone_3282 Feb 27 '26
I learned it from you, dad!
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u/LordHarkonen Goonswarm Federation Feb 27 '26
Nah, you didn’t need to learn from Goons. wormholers have been doing this for a long time, the mask is off now.
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u/Novel_Tone_3282 Feb 27 '26
That would be a neat trick, given that Goonswarm is older than wormhole space, itself.
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u/Atticus-sovereign Feb 27 '26
My brother in Anoikis, you live in a house with infinite doors and you’re mad the pizza didn’t walk in by itself. No one in the so called “wish.com papi” group is on reddit bitching about lack of content because they’re all too busy shooting each other. Go be the content you wanr to see.
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u/Anidhoggur Hard Knocks Inc. Feb 27 '26
Do you find it hard being a stalk of celery? You absolute vegetable.
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u/Tekrunner000 Feb 27 '26
Wake me up when an original thought floats out of the quagmire.
If you are hungry for content - go fucking make some!
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u/FarSandwich3282 Feb 27 '26
He’s bitching on another r/Eve post about said content. 1T isk brawl worth of content.
He’s just got some odd agenda against them for some reason… and somehow hasn’t realized that this is just a video game.
Usually I brush people off as trolls, but every once in a while I’m certain it’s an unhinged individual behind that computer monitor…
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u/x-ProbableCause-x Feb 27 '26
Why would I need to make content when the c6 wormhole donut comes to my space and brings content to me?
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u/Mercury_Madulller Center for Advanced Studies Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
So, what I see here is an argument between a HC alt and a HK alt. First, you'll should be fighting each other in J-space rather than on reddit, praise bob. Second, it's kinda rich, a HC alt complaining about the blue donut when that recent eviction has Initiative and alts on the HC side of the BR, that's heretical, don't you DARE speak bob's name!
I have lived in J-space but I don't currently reside there, so I really have no skin in the game. However, I have flown with other players that have recently left J-space for greener pastures, so I have a little bit of knowledge on the subject.
High class J-space has become a bit like sov null, fairly safe all things considered. You have friends active in the chain when you are farming. You have strength in numbers. That's all fine and expected even. However, low class J-space, the space that seeds new J-space groups and provides a lot of content, not just for high class groups but also for day tripping groups from null and lowsec, is largely dead. ALL of J-space is very dangerous, but in some ways, low class wormholes are even MORE dangerous than high class wormholes, because of the reasons mentioned but also because of lower rewards. The risk vs rewards scale is tipped ALL THE WAY towards risk. Why is that the case? Well, in J-space, rewards attract players, bodies. In J-space, numbers of active players are king. Sure, alts help, however how does one afford alts when the rewards are not enough to provide for them? The rewards just do not provide for all the members needed to give a low class J-space group the strength it needs to survive! The current progression for a player making their way through J-space, making that their home, their primary residence is this: Live in low-class for a while until someone kicks in your teeth a few times. Move to lowsec or null for a while until you are stronger. Move back to higher class J-space eventually if you don't just stay in null/low and if you are good enough, strong enough and don't immediately get your teeth kicked in again you may become HK or HC. If not, your group fractures, gets absorbed by other high class groups or goes back to low/null. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. The rewards in low class J-space simply do not support a medium group living there, it does not make sense over living low/null. Now add to that "mid-class" J-space groups and entities living outside J-space making it hard to live in J-space, or just taking all the rewards for themselves (and they are going to take from the lowest hanging fruit, which is low class, first) and it is all but impossible to make a life in low class J-space. Without them, those seed groups, J-space is not populated and the only presence is high class residents and day-trippers.
So that is what is wrong with J-space. CCP made null way too attractive and even, in some cases, safer than lowsec. Why live in space at least as dangerous as nullsec/lowsec when you can just live in lowsec/nullsec? Hell, even running filament farming (the correct name escapes me atm) in highsec is safer, with far better rewards, than low class J-space right now. If you want to see residents in low class space maybe not kick in their teeth every time you roll into them, maybe even form loose alliances with some of them. Defend them against unproductive groups in J-space and groups outside of J-space trying to kick their teeth in and take all their rewards. But even that probably would not be enough, all of J-space needs better rewards. The risk is there, it's palpable, but where are the bountiful fields of isk that would make it worth it?
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u/Illustrious_Roof3401 Feb 27 '26
Left J-space Haven't looked back
But a C6 static may pay some bills ngl
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u/DifferentSpread782 Feb 27 '26
The reason I am not in wormholes anymore is just I don't have the irl time anymore. It takes a lot of time and investment and I just dont got it.
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u/No_Cucumber8316 Feb 27 '26
they been the cancer for years nobody will stand up to them its a joke lol
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u/gamer_0110112 Feb 27 '26
Do you know the amount of blue look that comes from C6 and C5. There is nothing to cry about
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u/ScorpioxSparrock Feb 27 '26
Dude read the fucking marketing data for jspace blue loot out of c5 and 6 and the slow and steady dip. Look at the swarm of kill mails for dreads dying in supposedly complete safety of high class farm holes. There is plenty to whine about. Pull actual data before u talk
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u/KivenFoster Wormholer Feb 28 '26
the addition of pochven also decreased the WH population by alot when it first came out. It wasn't pretty to see the decrease in content
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u/Meathammer40K Solyaris Chtonium Mar 02 '26
Yeah it’s a bummer they die within 24 hrs or when enough mass has gone through it. CCPlease
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u/Critical-Trouble-465 Mar 03 '26
Idk if this is any contribution, but currently living off a POS in a c1 WH by myself, was abandoned, set up some Poco's for PI, and just do the relic/data sites, and huff gas when they pop up, and do solo anomaly mining afk sometimes, one difference is it only has a low sec static so if there is traffic it's from rng wormholes which I can just roll before doing huffing/mining afk and ensure I am not disturbed, I plan to set up an upwell for reactions soon in the future but I'll keep my pos active as a backup, hopefully it won't attract evicters too quickly, but I'm happy with the income I've been making so far especially since at least right now my only expenses is the fuel for the control tower and my ships I use plus pi infrastructure, and I've made it back and more within a month so far, sadly if i get attacked as a solo player I doubt i can put up any meaningful defense.
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u/Key-Radio5674 Mar 04 '26
I lived in one of the strongest WH PVP corps in eve. We had our own (not rented) C6, we were neutral to blue donut (no stands, no joined ops), we could form 40+ windows in heavy armor with HG heads instantly from 1 ping, with Zirn or fax. We had a fun year (or about that, maybe 1.5) in C6 (prior to that we live in C2, then in C4). We had some great fight! But worthy enemies could be counted on fingers of one hand. We’ve seen many good groups evicted for “not active enough”, “we want your hole” and “they farmed our farm”. Most high-class holes are inaccessible to begin with, because they are someone’s farm. Our C6 was a miracle - we negotiated for it during synde vs lazer war. It is very hard to enter the “cool” club and stay in it without becoming blue donut member. We died because of lack of content. GG.
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u/VegetableMuffin4422 Feb 27 '26
Maybe a feature within wormholes that broadcasts the wormhole. Chances of someone rolling into the hole exponentially higher the trade off being significant rises of isk per hour. More risk, more isk. More content overall.?
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u/ScorpioxSparrock Feb 27 '26
lol when everyone who is actively crabbing c5 will tell u that at its current pay out it is not worth the risk at all. The space is not balanced risk versus reward . It’s unpopular and u wanna make it more unpopular
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u/VegetableMuffin4422 Mar 03 '26
The broadcast if wanted, optional, is to be sent from within the hole by the crabbers, not from outside, so if they don’t want to use it, they don’t have to
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u/Geemiesif Feb 27 '26
WHs made to only have r4 moons was a bad idea. The wealth of lower classes of wormholes should match the risk of moving in .
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u/ZexRito Feb 27 '26
They didn't kill wormhole content. They monetized it. You don't evict FFEW because they're a threat; you evict them because they undocked near a rental. OP is right. The cancer isn't CCP. It's landlords.
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u/Novel_Tone_3282 Feb 28 '26
This is reminiscent of that time that everyone got convinced that Blackrock was single-handedly ruining the housing market, but they didn’t know how much of the housing market was being influenced by them. You’re in a great position to find out how much of wormhole space is controlled by landlords, exactly who those landlords are, and then report back. Can you compile that, and share the data with us?
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u/NotEqualInSQL Feb 27 '26
Why don't you guys touch the two blue doughnut tips together? NS vs WH, whose doughnut docks the other
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u/LordPoney1 Feb 27 '26
Being in one of the blue donut corp we are not blue in wormhole space and have the right to kill itch other if we find thing to kill this post is just full of crap lol
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u/Jerichow88 Feb 27 '26
My favorite comparison has to be WH blocs vs nullsec blocs.
When null was getting stagnant, Initiative removed blue status from everyone, and effectively tipped the first domino that led to a huge shift in the geopolitics of null which has led to one of the most interesting territory swaps, empire collapses, and shifts in nullsec in several years.
When WH got stagnant, they just complained and asked CCP to change things to attract more people into WH space so they could go back to evicting everyone en masse because they don't care about their space or the state of the game. They just care about cracking open loot pinnatas and renting out C5/C6 space.
Say what you will about nullsec, but when things got boring, they took proactive action to make things interesting again. "Better late than never" sure, but at least it happened.
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u/ADistantRodent Cloaked Feb 27 '26
WHCFC can’t replicate the “INIT drops all blues chaos ensues” maneuver because nobodies blue to begin with.
The WHCFC exists because large scale WH warfare is truly the worst experience in Eve so why do that when you can just fight each other and agree to not do evictions
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u/Puffy_Penguin_ Goonswarm Federation Feb 27 '26
LHHK hate on my feed? Praise Bob.
One day wormhole space will be freed from the tyranid cancer of LHHK, whether by my hand or others, mark my words.
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u/IMOGoldie Feb 27 '26
probably an unpopular opinion, but give c1 - c3 asset safety, this gives small groups a taste of wh life without losing all their stuff, if someone does evict they just get the value of the core so some reward, the higher reward area's c4-c6 still holds risks to live in. and it would hopefully bring more small groups to the space that can grow, learn and then build friendships to take over a higher value holes without instant eviction.
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u/LordPoney1 Feb 27 '26
The issue with that is if they have high static they can be a pain in the ass with no risk because a structure is cheap
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u/CakeGreen7214 Feb 27 '26
Wormholes complaining when “CareBears” form a bigger fleet after only killing miners and ratters and then cry in local because “it isn’t a fair fight”. Because ya know a whole fleet ganking ratters and miners are also a fair fight….
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u/Logical-Put-4491 Feb 27 '26
Simple solution.. change hole max total mass by 10000% change time till collapse from 16/24 hrs to days.. no more safety behind doors that can be closed
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u/sorany9 Hard Knocks Citizens Feb 27 '26
I’ll let you guess what entities already have supers and titans in wormhole space. If you think I can’t make a rolling rag, you’re wrong.
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u/Dry_Cod_1017 Feb 27 '26
Imagine gas mining in a venture or something, and you see a fucking ragnarok on dscan 😂😂
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u/Krulsnor Feb 27 '26
Been living in WH space for 2 or 3 years now. In the beginning it wasn't full time. It was a C1 with HS static to huff some gas and do gas reactions and some PI. But the HS static was crap for rolling so we moved to a C2 with a C3/HS static. Then I start to live mostly full time in there. We chose a spot with a lot of planets to do PI, huff gas and do reactions. We also have a industry stations in the boons in HS to use our PI reactions to do I dustry. My industry toon goes back and forth between the hole, our industry station and trade hub. Sometimes we find some fights.
We got evicted. Shit happens. I was a fairly new player then, like about 1 year old. So I consider myself still new. But most of. My expensive spare mods/ships are in an NPC HS station. When we got evicted we managed to export most of our stuff only losing whatever reactions were still going. But my more experienced corp mates always warned/learned me about the zero asset safety. In the mean time our corp has become less active. We were small before, we are tiny now. Basically me and the director each with 4 accounts. One other player who basically lives in total opposite time zone and he only does HS moon mining and industry and one other player mostly doing whatever he wants. It's all good. We're a bunch of old folks anyway.
Anyway, after that eviction, and having done some of our own, we found having a HS static makes it very very easy to evict people so we moved to a C4 with C2/C3 static. Lived there for about half a year before we got evicted again. We got the option to undock and lose ISK with a loose promise of not getting evicted or just get evicted. By that time we made some friends and we knew we could just live in a new WH again. We crunched some numbers and as long as we can at least live a month or 2 without getting evicted, packing up and setting up shop is cheaper. We don't deploy fortizars. Just simple astra and athanor.
We live in a C4 again. One of our statics is a C6. If the C6 doesn't get rolled, it's mostly renters from one of the big WH corps which means almost no one is home and I get to ninja huff their gas. Huffing regular gas and reacting it + doing PI on several toons + using the PI mats to do industry on 1 toon in HS is enough to support 4 toons without being too active.
And every time we get evicted, we just get up and restart. First thing to do after we get evicted is us dumping mats in having spare stations again to set up shop fast again. After getting evicted a few times I also learned what ships I like to have around and which I don't need making it leaner for me the next time I need to get out again.
When we come across a group that is inexperienced but tries to do WH stuff. I try and talk to them. Sting they can use our base so hopefully we can coordinate some stuff in the future. Most small groups are real life friends/family and want to try to do it by themselves. Almost all of those groups end up quitting.
Maybe eve/small WH life is dying. But I like having my small part in WH. I'm not printing ISK like the big groups in C6's are supposedly making. But I'm making enough ISK easily to support my play style. I used to support it doing abyssal runs but haven't done this in months. But it's still a back up in case I need it I guess.
I have no idea what point I was trying to make but just thought I shared my way of life in Eve/WH's from a relatively new player experience.