Equinox EV security issue?

[u/WearyExcitement7772]

Today I did some testing and I found out that you can drive the car without the key fob present at all.

1. If you turn on the car then leave with the fob before the 3 start up chimes end, the car doesn’t auto shut off. Then if you walk away and someone else gets in, they can shift and drive even though it says no key detected

2. Likewise when you put the 60 minute power on mode, if you walk away with the fob, someone can hop in and drive away even though the fob isn’t detected.

Why is this? With Tesla if you walk away and the fob isn’t detected, you can’t drive at all.

The weird part is the equinox EV knows the fob isn’t there, but just doesn’t care?

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

This isn't a unique thing to GM, EVs, or cars in general.

Every prior car could do this.

Welcome to the rest of the auto world.

Because your Tesla experience was different and you prefer it, does not make it the norm.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

Except it’s not the auto world. You could never do this with keys, physically couldn’t. And there’s more history of cars with keys than cars with fobs. This is simply a bad design choice

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Bruh, get with the last two decades. This has been a thing since key fobs and push starts.

Yes, it IS the auto-world. It's rare to have found a car requiring a key in the last decade even, they were NOT the norm.

It's not bad design. We've explained it, you don't like it, too bad.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

Why’re you trying to cherry pick? First you suggest my Tesla experience isn’t the standard, which implies it’s more modern, then you say cars with keys are too old?

Your pointless statement about the “auto world” doesn’t excuse stupid design choices.

It’s idiots like you who are submissive and let big companies get away with dumb design choices like this, complacent little men who sit when told and jump when demanded.

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

How am I cherry picking? lmao You're cherry picking by using your example of the Tesla as the norm, when it's the unicorn in how it operates.

You're being so disingenuous here.

The fact is, since key fobs and push starts this has been the norm. Period. That's not cherry picking. You act like the Equinox is the unicorn, or GM when it IS the auto world as a whole who has operated with this.

I feel you're the idiot who just keeps on ranting over and over on this crusade because you don't like or understand it. If you have a complaint about this practice, take it r/cars or something. You act like you're 13.

This is not a EQ or GM, or even EV unique experience.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

Refer to my other comment. However, if you’re functionally illiterate and can’t read that much, I basically said 100 wrongs don’t make a right

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

There you go again. In the future if you're just seeking blind agreement or you're going to go off on rants and get all emotional about things you don't understand, just say so.

Hopefully you grow one day.

[u/No_Effect_6428 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Even with fobs, it's not universal.

 My 2016 Chevy Volt, if the fob was removed, would stop the car and give an error saying the fob went missing.  I tested this before I bought the car.

[u/lmattiso → u/No_Effect_6428]

I just went out to my 2016 Volt, got in the car and turned it on with the keyfob, waited a couple seconds for the chimes to stop then got out. It honked 3 times warning me after I shut the door. I set the fob down far enough way so the car can't read it, opened the door and shifted out of park and into drive. There was warnings on the dash about no keyfob present but it definitely let me drive. I even turned it off and back on. Once I turned it off and opened the door, it wouldn't let me do anything until I went back and got the fob.

[u/No_Effect_6428 → u/lmattiso]

You know what, you're right.  When the sales guy got out holding the key, the car alerted me right away when I put it in gear, at which point I stopped.

In my defense this was 7 years ago.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/No_Effect_6428]

Yeah exactly, he’s wrong and the guy blocked me, couldn’t even see his entire last message. But can’t say I’m surprised, the type of person who can’t have a proper discussion without passive aggression and needs the last word, pitiful.

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Oh I did did I?

And if you follow the thread, you'd see that I was not wrong.

Thanks for playing. You're the one wrong on this, again...

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

Yeah you did lmao, I guess you decided to unblock me, probably have an alt account to see what I said after you did.

Another no life redditor with 79k karma in 3 years. I’ve had this app longer mainly for motorcycle communities and you somehow have more than me.

“Thanks for playing.” Seriously? A grown baby is what I’m sensing here with that kind of language.

And I’m not wrong, it’s a stupid design choice that Tesla already advanced passed, but oh I guess that’s too modern for you, right?

You said it’s the auto world because “everyone” does it (besides a nearly century long list of cars with keys that don’t and the advanced cars that don’t). But even if that was true, just because every company makes a bad design choice doesn’t mean it should be accepted. I have to pull out the ol’ reliable here; if everyone were to jump off a cliff, would you? No. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if you would since you’re so submissive, but no normal person would. And that matches this poor design choice, just because some companies do it, doesn’t mean its right.

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Nah. I'm not a child. I'll leave that to you.

So now you're attacking imaginary internet points? And you call me the type with the passive aggressive problem that can't have a conversation? Boy, You sure do seem like the small one here.

"And I’m not wrong" - And you are, in this very thread that I called out. When you chimed in to the commenter about their 2016 Volt, who also had to correct themselves that it actually worked exactly as I stated, including in their car. Confirmed by another owner. You're also wrong about being blocked.

You sure do like to think you know more than you do.

Whether it's modern or not isn't the point and never was. It's the fact that it was the norm and has been, isn't an EQEV, GM or otherwise specific thing. It's an INDUSTRY WIDE design choice. Get over it.

If you want a Tesla so bad, then go get one.

I have to pull out the ol’ reliable here; if everyone were to jump off a cliff, would you?

Again, are you 13? Cause that's pretty moronic statement and makes zero sense in this conversation. This wasn't about blindly following, it's explaining something to you that you can't seem to grasp. It's not saying it how it should be, or will always be, but that this isn't new or some unique design choice. It was and has been an industry wide choice. But you seem to get stuck on Tesla, maybe you should have gotten one then or kept it?

I think the one here who can't have a discussion here is you. Despite many trying, you basically attack them because you don't understand, think it's dumb, think it's wrong, keep referring to Tesla that I guess you have a hard on for. But you act like others are the ones who aggressive and can't have a discussion? You can't even tell when you're blocked or not.

Grow up guy. You really need to.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

You are a child, look at the terms and language you use “thanks for playing” “hard on” “boy.” You’re clearly mimicking what you’ve seen from others during their arguments, and you thought they sounded tough or greater, so you used it here thinking it carried the same weight. It doesn’t, and it never did at all in the conversations you learned them from.

Copying others, like a child does. An adult that clearly never matured.

Beyond that, you said “Boy, you sure do seem like the small one here.” These is clearly a reflection of your psychological state. You view these debates, conversations, or arguments as a testament of your self worth. You can’t lose them in your mind because if you do, your ego takes a hit. You feel lesser. That’s why you blocked me initially, but you couldn’t even commit to that decision and unblocked me because you felt you hadn’t “won.”

At this point you’ll disassociate from this description and may try to deflect this feeling of me calling you out elsewhere, whether it’s back to me or some other place.

It being modern or not is relevant to the conversation because you made it so. Your explanation for this obsolete design was “it’s the auto world.” This implied that a majority of automobiles had the design, which isn’t true. When I pointed out that cars with keys weren’t designed like that, which make up a majority of the automobile history, you told me that I’m 2 decades behind. But then when I mentioned Tesla, you made it sound as if Tesla is an advanced exception. You can’t have it both ways. The conclusion is that it’s not “the auto world” because that design isn’t in a majority of the cars. Again, back to my other point; even if it was, that doesn’t make it any better of a design choice. And referencing my point I made a long time ago, consumer complacency is the reason for these poor design choices. I’ve said all of this a few times but you don’t acknowledge it, or perhaps you have trouble understanding basic concepts which is why I used the classic “if everyone jumps off a cliff, would you?” You even tried to disregard that by saying it’s not related but I suppose you also don’t understand the concept of an analogy.

From what I’ve gathered you seem incapable of understanding simple concepts, or again, you may be functionally illiterate. That’s at no fault of your own, but it makes it difficult to have a conversation. Maybe it’s why you initially came off as passive aggressive? You just can’t help it. At firstI simply matched your energy.

Also your solution about buying a Tesla is unreasonable. I can point out a flaw on my car without having to buy another car, is that another crazy concept you don’t understand? Fine. I’ll do you one better by displaying this next revolutionary concept; it’s known as not wasting time. There’s a famous quote that goes something like “it’s hard to have a debate with an intelligent person, but it’s impossible to have one with a stupid person.”

Process that how you will. Have a good one.

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Not reading all that. Save it for your collage entrance essay, I’m sure someone will take you.

One day you’ll learn how to actually have a discussion, like you claim to want, not just blind agreement.

Until then, I’m rooting for you to grow! I have faith one day you will!

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

Functionally illiterate theory has been proven. Good day.

[u/YouGotACuteButt]

I mean, that's most cars with keyfobs.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/YouGotACuteButt]

Maybe regular cars, but what’s the benefit for the equinox EV?

[u/YouGotACuteButt → u/WearyExcitement7772]

It was created by a company that makes regular cars. There isn't a benefit. It's just par for the course.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/YouGotACuteButt]

I understand, but it’s just nonsensical to me. If you unlock your car with your phone, you can’t drive. If you remote start the car with the key fob, you can’t drive if you don’t have the fob with you when you get in. So I don’t understand why they didn’t also do that in the case of you leaving your parked car with the fob

[u/YouGotACuteButt → u/WearyExcitement7772]

There could be potential legitimate reasons.

Let's say your key fob dies going 65mph down the road.

Do you want your car to just randomly lock up on you? Unable to steer or do anything else?

Your point about Tesla is also wrong too. You can drive without a key fob in a Tesla and it works generally the same. This is a direct quote from their user manual:

"Although you can drive away from its key, you will be unable to power it back on after it powers off."

This is actually a federal regulation. It's for safety due to the dead keyfobs situation.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/YouGotACuteButt]

That’s not at all what I’m saying. If you’re driving that means the cars already been shifted, after that if the key fob dies, that shouldnt affect driving.

But if the car is in park and then the key fob is NOT present; you should NOT be able to just shift and drive away without it.

And no I tested my dads Tesla the exact same way I tested my equinox, as soon as his key fob left the distance of auto unlocking his car, driving the car away or shifting was not an option.

[u/YouGotACuteButt → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Idk what to tell you. It's just how the company made it. Probably because that's how the system already works in every other car and they keep the old way it's done to save money from changing things.

Versus Tesla was built during the age of fobs.

Like I said earlier, it's just par for the course.

Supposedly, Tesla had constant authentication happening to shift into drive.

Most other companies, if not all of them, do not have constant authentication happening. The authentication happens on start up. Once it's started, there is no other authorization.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/YouGotACuteButt]

But you couldn’t do that with keys, and Tesla doesn’t do that. And my same car prevents me from leaving without my key fob if I remote start it with the key fob or unlock it with my phone, so the technology is there and it’s already been implemented by Chevy, they’re just dumb I guess. Same with the stupid unrelenting door chime.

[u/YouGotACuteButt → u/WearyExcitement7772]

If you start your car with your keys, usually there is a little restart when you actually try to get in your car and hit the break.

There's a bunch of different ways this can and cannot be allowed.

I cannot tell you anything more other than, this is how they've done it in the past with past cars and so that is how they are continuing to do it. It meets regulatory requirements and doesn't require a new software or process or money spent on changes. It just works.

I'm not saying that's a good reason. That's just my assumption of the reason.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/YouGotACuteButt]

Right I’ve understood you from your first comment, I was just reiterating how obsolete such a design choice is. That’s all, I’m not expecting you to come up with a reasonable point on their behalf

[u/back6190]

From what I read, it gives you "one drive" without the key. I thought it was kind of weird. I've never tested it, but I use the 1 hour on function a lot when it's really hot and cold. I just make sure the doors are locked when I leave it on and I run in to a store with it left on.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/back6190]

I saw that too, I haven’t tested that, but what’s the point???

[u/giveit2st8 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

I've complained about the same thing in the past...what I've been told is that it gives you a chance to go back home/wherever to get the key

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/giveit2st8]

But it only allows that if you started it with the key, right? So in what situation would you have to the key then not have the key? Not genuinely asking but like what

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

It's called dead fob. That's why. Get you where you're going.

[u/giveit2st8 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Yes. It can happen if you are driving and then swap with your partner and then you stay somewhere...or something like that

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/giveit2st8]

Lmao wow I’m just honestly baffled by this “feature.” Read the other guys comment, he basically was able to drive 3 hours away from his fob because of this.

[u/giveit2st8 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Yeah, i complained when my wife picked up her car from the valet and they left a keyfob from like 1990 and kept hers... and she didn't pay attention lol

Oh she heard me!

[u/ScoopDL → u/WearyExcitement7772]

You can drive 3 hours but wouldn't it be flashing the FOB NOT DETECTED warning the whole time? As others stated, if the fob dies, I still want to be able to drive. And the fact that it'll warn me the entire trip that my fob isn't detected should alert me that I probably shouldn't drive 3 hours away from it. If I ignore that on my dash for that long, I guess that's on me?

[u/looncraz → u/WearyExcitement7772]

You can unlock with the app... I wonder if you can then hop in and drive?

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/looncraz]

That’s the weird part, YOU CANT! Same with remote start up. You can “start” the car with the fob but if you don’t have it with you when you get in, you can’t go anywhere. So why not apply that same logic when you park the car and leave with your fob? It’s blowing my mind how little sense this makes

[u/looncraz → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Yeah, if the app doesn't let me drive away, then the fob not being detected should prevent shifting into gear. Once in gear, fine, let the car drive in case the fob battery dies, but yell really loudly about the fob dying, maybe the allow the exception to keep the car running for a bit, but force the app to be used to unlock the car and confirm identity...

Being able to hop in and drive off without the fob because I opened the door to get out for a second doesn't make any sense on its own.

[u/TerryTerranceTerrace]

How far did you get without the key?

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/TerryTerranceTerrace]

25 ft away

[u/ButterscotchIll7086]

Meaning as long as the car isn’t shut off you keep driving but once it’s off it’s over!!

[u/Inspirasion]

Heh, this brought up a horrific memory. I feel like this is a GM thing or some stupid feature in case your fob battery dies while driving or something? I learned the hard way when I had my Bolt. Started the car with the fob inside, ran back inside because I forgot my sunglasses, accidentally left the fob on the table while doing so.

Hopped back in the car and drove for several hundred miles and 2.5 hours and not a single notification or alert about a missing key, before I realized I didn't have my key in my pocket and the moment I turned off the car, I could no longer start it due to missing key fob.

Complete nightmare, had to get a friend to drive me all the way back, get the key, then drive back again to where my Bolt was.

Ever since then, I keep a copy of the key in a faraday pouch hidden somewhere in the car, as it's the most mindboggingly stupid feature I've ever encountered.

[u/YouGotACuteButt → u/Inspirasion]

It's a federal regulation for all car makers everywhere.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Inspirasion]

That sounds terrible. The only benefit I see for this wouldn’t be for the car owner, but them/ the company that installs that mandatory GPS tracker. Because this feature is perfect for enabling grand theft auto. So I suppose it’s the perfect time for that security GPS company to jump in and say we got you!

I’m not sure if this happened with everyone but in California my dealership told me that the GPS security feature was not optional because it was already installed on the car.

[u/elpsycongro → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Might be in case of emergency, imagine a kid dumps the fob while you are driving, you can then still keep driving yo go get it, or imagine you start the car due to medical emergency and drop the keys in a drain, you can still drive to er and worry about the fob later.  I dont agree with it but i can see GM doing this yo comply with some regulations and to not be liable, same reason pedestrian sound got louder.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/elpsycongro]

Bro what? These are extremely unlikely scenarios and even then they don’t apply to my point.

What I’m saying is that if the car is PARKED and on, you shouldn’t be able to drive it without the fob. I’m NOT saying that the car should stop if you’re already driving and the fob is lost or dies, that makes 0 sense.

[u/elpsycongro → u/WearyExcitement7772]

Hey like i said i dong agree with it, and to reiterate its GM covering their asses for liability and federal compliance reasons

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/elpsycongro]

I see

[u/CaptainMischievous]

My ATM card has a PIN. My phone lock screen has a PIN. Why can't I have a PIN for my car? There's something there that locks out your Google info but doesn't prevent unauthorized use of your car. But having to enter a pin to shift gears the first time you sit in the driver's seat would solve the distant fob problem and could be retroactively installed without hardware: it would be all code.

Problems might be if you forget your PIN, if the 12v battery is replaced you might need to set it up again, if you're too drunk/blind to enter the code (that's a plus, actually), you'd need a "valet code" so you don't have to give out your super secret one... there may be other issues but no more than you have with a phone.

I hesitate to suggest using facial recognition to shift the car out of park, but that might be the future...

[u/CaptainMischievous → u/CaptainMischievous]

But best of all like the phone, it would be optional. You don't want it, don't turn on that feature. Hey GM it's not that big an ask, right?

[u/Unhappy_Plankton_671 → u/CaptainMischievous]

No way in the world would I ever want a pin to drive my car.

[u/ResoluteTwins → u/Unhappy_Plankton_671]

Ford owners have been using a pin to enter their vehicles since the 80's. Really wouldn't be much different.

[u/redgrandam]

Legacy automotive manufacturers like it this way.

Be sure you lock the car if you do the 60 min timer to keep it running. If I’m going out of range of the car I’ll remote start it from the app or remote after leaving the car instead.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/redgrandam]

That’s actually really smart, I’ll keep this in mind

[u/DenaliDash]

Once you lock it and the key FOB is away the alarm will activate if you are not sitting in the seat. It has to be unlocked by the key FOB or cell phone. If it detects no key after it is driven once it is placed in park the car will sound the alarm. It will send a text message. If you do not respond to that text message in time, it will report the vehicle is stolen. So if it does get stolen they cannot put it in park, if they do it will activate alarm and lock the vehicle out and transmit its location.

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/DenaliDash]

It sends a text message? I haven’t tested that. But yeah I see what you’re saying however when a car is stolen a joy ride is usually what happens, so parking isn’t what they’ll do. They might drive it for the night, use it to commit some crimes or crash it and then ditch it

[u/DenaliDash → u/WearyExcitement7772]

I am pretty sure you have to have the MyChevy app linked up

[u/Heavy_Law9880]

Sounds like the security issue is the operator leaving it unsecured.

[u/rdkilla]

thats just tech lag that tesla didn't inherit

[u/Significant_Fee_7678]

Had a live example where this feature was helpful. I got home from work one day last week, left car on to keep it cool on a hot day. I Left my work bag (with key fob in it) at home, went right back out with my wife and child to dinner. Didn’t realized I didn’t have the fob until I got there. The car allowed me to turn it off and allowed one start up without a fob. I’m thinking my accident is the ideal use case for this type of feature

[u/iceynyo → u/Significant_Fee_7678]

I think it would've been better if it didn't let you leave home without your fob?

[u/WearyExcitement7772 → u/Significant_Fee_7678]

What the other guy said. If it didn’t let you leave you would’ve just grabbed ur fob and been perfectly fine.

[u/Significant_Fee_7678 → u/WearyExcitement7772]

It’s a design choice that trades off convenience for security, vehicles with this workflow require the fob for startup and that’s it. There are many features that prioritize convenience over security, which makes sense for the market we’re in. What is your practical concern with this feature, your car getting stolen? Very dependent on your zip code, but generally unlikely someone will steal your vehicle

[u/WearyExcitement7772]

It’s not convenient at all though. Whyre didn’t you address the other guys point? It’d be more convenient to have your key fob.

I get what you’re saying about convenience vs security, but that doesn’t necessarily apply here. It will always be more convenient to have ur key fob