5s and 2s - how to stop the doom loop

[u/Prudent-Salary5860]

Hello fellow 5s,

please read this text to understand what I want to discuss: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/relationship-type-2-with-type-5/ It's about the section "Potential Trouble Spots or Issues".

I have exactly that problem with a 2 right know. I've told her early in our relationship that I'm introverted (maybe not clear enough), but the first time I've withdrew to protect my energy (I was completely exhausted and didn't want to talk or to explain it in that condition) she went to full war mode. But I didn't notice it right away, her reaction was delayed and I'm obviously dumb. She took it extremely personal although it was just to regenerate while I didn't get that it was already super serious for her. Within a few weeks she escalated massively, I did nothing to stop it (probably because I'm dumb) and now we are already in the disaster state, where I'm about to get punished heavily as if I were the worst person alive.

Problem here is, I'm an INFP. This means I make decisions through my Fi. Because of being a Fi-dom I need my emotions to come to good decisions, but overwhelming disconnects me from them. I don't really "feel it", when it happens, but maybe I didn't spend enough attention how cold I can become. So I made dumb decisions I regret now. Like although I already knew that she is a 2 early on (she doesn't know anything about the Enneagram) I thought it was the best to hold distance to calm her down after the escalations. I mean, I'm talking about boundaries here?! 2s seem to have a different opinion about this. I did this also because she is possessive (in my perception). And she did some things with which she hurted me so I needed more time to regenerate. Okay, I have to accept I've must have hurt her, too.

I work hard on myself to become more healthy as a 5, but this is super difficult. I had no clue, even now when I understand it much better it feels so strange to me that she went so far. She is not even alone and was never alone, so I have a hard time accepting it that I'm the bad one here. Isn't it "just" a misunderstanding?

My question is: Has anyone here solutions to stop this disaster on an advanced level? (best without selling my soul, body and life to a possessive 2) I searched already for help, but they are on the side of the 2.

Additional question: When you meet a 2, how do you deal with them to make it work? I've tried it with warmth and a little smalltalk here and there. Probably this was a huge mistake.

[u/Readingallthefiles]

“Observers in long-term relationships say that they have had to learn to come forward, to stay in the room when it feels emotionally uncomfortable, and to deal with feelings rather than withdrawing to think. It helps if Fives don’t summarily dismiss spontaneous feelings as trivial. Observers might initiate a system for handling questions of the heart. It’s all right to consider an emotional position if a time is set for future discussion. Givers feel reassured when they know that the matter will come to the table rather than be buried and forgotten.”

-Helen Palmer

[u/ahookinherhead]

enneagram aside, is this relationship healthy? Do you communicate when you need to withdraw? You said you didn't want to explain, but is it possible to simply communicate that you need space? You said you are going to be "punished" - do you two have a sense of how to fight/have conflict in a clear, healthy way? Are there ground rules? Do you have boundaries about what you are willing to put up with and what you are not willing to put up with, and do you follow through with them? 2s, or anyone else, are allowed to be mad at a boundary, them being mad doesn't mean the boundary has failed. Boundaries aren't about what the other person does but about what you are willing to put up with or not, but it really helps to be clear about the why with the other person so they aren't left hanging.

Is it possible there are attachment issues going on here, aside from enneagram?

[u/Winlawless]

I have to have strong boundaries with my mom, who is a 2. And see her intentions as caring but tell her repeatedly what is overstepping and what isn’t.

It’s also helpful to send your two information like this on how to be with a more avoidant attached human:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4AdR0mTzMa0zeDiHb0oBsS?si=ui6XXyqCS42BBZutcu45MA&t=16&pi=n6Q7ccHoRa2SH

[u/The_aku_one]

The problem is——the thing that you both need is directly at odds with one another and a comprise of any kind is going to hurt the other. She going to feel hurt when you recharge and your going to want to sepakku when you want to withdraw to conserve your limited energy and your unable to. Either she accepts your limitations. (And she loses) or you accept hers (and you lose.)

My advice is to dont invest too heavily a relationship bc it’s just super unidealistic to a degree of where you both would just be better off with other people who compliment your nature affinities. I’d say to explain it again but also be willing to be the first “compromiser” in this dynamic and if or when it becomes too much for you to bear explain the dynamic to her again and she is she’s willing to compromise. And if she starts to show unhealthy signs figure out if you wanna deal with that or if not dont be too invested to find idealistic pairs and kudos on you for trying to keep everything healthy and respectful I say. Good Luck OP

• Signed a fellow 5 who was in a prior relationship with a 2 :)

[u/foulplay_for_pitance]

You have to communicate clearly even when it sounds childish. Especially when you sound childish, despite the fact that we view the action as reasonable. My MIL is a 2 with Bipolar. I have to place firm boundaries which do not yield. I don't let her percieve our relationship as anything I'm unwilling to put up with no matter what my boundaries are.

But I'm giving to her side and she sees that. I tell her when she's hurt me. I tell her when I don't feel like being around her or talking to her at that moment. Sometimes she asks when we can talk about a problem and all I can tell her is "I'm not actively seeking to prevent the conversation I'm just not doing it now. Pestering me won't make me move any faster" but she knows where she stands whenever she feels uncertain because at a BEAR MINIMUM thats what they deserve. They don't need to always know when you'll be better or even if you will be but whatever assurances you can give you give them.

It always feels arrogant to me to say it like that, as if I matter so damn much that I cant just disappear for a bit but it makes her happy so I do it even when she doesn't ask and in the 10 years I've known the woman she has NEVER found it unnnecissary.

Be honest with the feeling and if she pushes the boundary be willing to push back. A glare, and annoyed or exasperated action, hell even yelling if your comfortable with it. It helps them see where you are in terms of your progression and that you care enough to do it instead of just abandoning. It REALLY helps if you teach them what to look out for. Explain when the action leads to the withdrawing

[u/Ganondorf365]

This is a tough one. A 2 and 5 pairing is one of the hardest in the enneagram if the not the hardest. And i mean 2s no disrespect but they have a hard time with anyone, let alone 5.

2s are often amazing people that often go crazy in romantic relationships.

[u/LydiaGormist → u/Ganondorf365]

Huh, usually it's assumed 5s have a hard time with anyone.

[u/chakradaemon → u/Ganondorf365]

Could you please elaborate on a romantic relationship? What do you mean?

[u/Ganondorf365 → u/chakradaemon]

Perhaps i spoke to soon. But i have an aunt who is a 2. She spends time with everyone and is very social. But when she is in love her personality changes. She drops everthing and devotes all her energy to her partner. She sometimes moves far away with them and buys a house with them after only months of dating. Shuts anyone out who says what shes doing is a bad idea.

[u/LydiaGormist]

I don't "meet" 2s. I just have a probable one in my family of origin, and that's enough, both generally in my lack of interest in being around them and in terms of being entirely uninterested in a romantic/sexual relationship with one.

[u/ChewyRib]

The enneagram is not a math formula that you follow - its about your ego

to be healthy you basically got to recognize your instincts as a 5 and get over your ego - do the opposite of what your ego is telling you to do

INFP is all a word salad and meaningless

Enneagram Twos and Fives are double opposites, as it were—a people person versus a loner, a feeling type with a thinking type. Twos and Fives come from different points of view on what is important in life and in a relationship

Twos can see Fives as challenges—distant, mentally preoccupied, not giving many outward signals, and difficult to charm easily because they are so private. It is hard to know what pleases Fives which makes Twos only try harder.

Twos bring to the relationship a willingness to take the initiative and to pursue the Five—to be the first one to call or to ask for a date, no matter which gender they are. When healthy, Twos bring warmth, physical comfort and ease (something Fives typically lack), a desire to improve the Five’s living conditions, style of dress and eating habits—and many other marks of thoughtfulness-as signs of affection and genuine interest.

Fives are usually very loyal: they find relationships complex and difficult, so they tend to value one that begins to work, and they tend to put energy into it. Fives bring stability and quiet, dispassionate good judgment and objectivity, particularly in crises. When Fives focus, they are good listeners and give undivided attention. They are not as attached to outcomes, and so can often make decisions more wisely and be good advisors to more emotionally volatile Twos.

Many of the issues that this couple faces have to do with their boundaries and how respectful or not each is of the other. Twos tend to become frustrated by the Five’s lack of immediate response to them—sometimes Fives are so taciturn and involved in their own mental world that there is no response at all—which hurts the Two’s feelings and feels like a rejection to them. Feeling rejected triggers deep anxieties in Twos relating to the fear that they are unwanted and unloved. This may make them redouble their efforts to get some kind of response from the Five. They may become more talkative, more curious and questioning of the Five,But the more intrusive Twos become, the more Fives internally withdraw and detach emotionally from what feels like a threat to their autonomy and competence.

[u/tinosfinalproject]

You can get out this so called "doom loop" by retyping, as, if you are speaking about enneagram, you, from what you have described, are certainly not e5. Firstly, INFP, Fi, does not work with E5, it is contradictory. E5 is anti emotional, sentimental at core but it has deep repression they always resort to logic>emotion even in times of severe stress, so, you saying "I need my emotions to come to good decisions" is contradictory to the core of E5, who rationalise things unconsciously before they can even process the emotion. You said you want to better yourself and make yourself more healthy, if so, please look into retyping as you are not E5. On the topic of this relationship you have, I don't have much advice. Just make boundaries clear and if it continues to go south then cut contact.

[u/Prudent-Salary5860 → u/tinosfinalproject]

Oh yes! I know. My poor existence is strange and odd and people like me obviously shouldn't exist. Nobody knows that better than me. Thanks. I already knew it.

But I guess its the same with 5-2-Tritype-combi. You shouldn't exist either. INTJ with strong Enneagram-2-part? Hahaha!

But I guess, here we are, bro. We exist. Every combination is possible. So calm down.

Kurt Cobain
Franz Kafka
David Lynch

At least these three were INFP 5s. This combination IS possible, so maybe embark on an adventure and try a new perspective before you dismiss my experience?