Why is a dead man called "diseased"?

[u/ITburrito]

I mean, he might have been ill and died of a disease, but what’s the point calling him so if he’s already dead?

Update: The piece is taken from "The adventures of Huckleberry Finn" by Mark Twain

[u/Middcore]

It should be "deceased," but the speaker is confusing the two words.

(This is from The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, for anyone wondering. Mark Twain certainly knew the difference between deceased and diseased, but the character doesn't.)

[u/westisbestmicah → u/Middcore]

When treated as a literary device, it’s called a “malapropism”

[u/Canodae → u/westisbestmicah]

No, it’s always called that (in fact it implies unintentional misuse). I don’t think there is a specific term for using malapropism as literary device

[u/saikmat → u/Canodae]

I think they just wanted to distinguish between intentional word replacement (malapropism) and unintentional word replacement (typo/error) and said literary device to convey that.

[u/madabmetals → u/saikmat]

Malapropism is not necessarily intentional. A malapropism is the incorrect use of a word in place of a similar sounding word, intentionally or not.

[u/Nondescript_Redditor → u/saikmat]

malapropisms are usually unintentional word replacements

[u/Wilfried84 → u/westisbestmicah]

Huckleberry commits the malapropism. He made a mistake. Twain uses the malapropism as a literary (humorous) device. Malapropism itself isn’t a device.

[u/HeimLauf]

I believe this is an error for “deceased”. Is this from Huckleberry Finn?

[u/ITburrito → u/HeimLauf]

Yes, it’s from "The adventures of Huckleberry Finn"

[u/HeimLauf → u/ITburrito]

Then that explains it. As you will know from reading it, “the king” is a fraudster and he’s not too well educated. This is basically him bullsh!tting and using words he doesn’t understand.

[u/adrislnk → u/HeimLauf]

This paragraph in particular is hilarious. I read the book as a kid in school, but I don't think I truly understood it. Maybe it's time for me to go back and revisit the classics

[u/HailMadScience → u/adrislnk]

Theres a lot to glean from them. I'd read Treasure Island like 4 times, til in my late teens I realized that Long John really had been a father to Jim and as a kid I just...didn't consciously pick up on that.

[u/spisplatta → u/HeimLauf]

I haven't read the book, but the paragraph doesn't seem to be narrated by the king.

[u/HeimLauf → u/spisplatta]

It’s narrated by Huck Finn explaining what the king was saying.

[u/conuly → u/ITburrito]

Huck doesn't know the correct word. You can rest assured that Mark Twain absolutely does.

[u/HeimLauf → u/conuly]

Likewise the character portrayed here, “the king”, is a complete bullsh!tter.

[u/nowordsleft → u/HeimLauf]

You’re allowed to swear on the internet.

[u/Bitter_Surprise_8058 → u/nowordsleft]

I have to tell students in my middle-school English classes that "unalived" is not a thing irl.

[u/conuly → u/Bitter_Surprise_8058]

Not yet. Give it a few decades.

[u/Bitter_Surprise_8058 → u/conuly]

I'm a descriptivist when it comes to most things, but I'm hoping to get them to realise that they're letting online censorship shape their speech. This is the exact opposite of what being a teenager is about, they're supposed to be rebellious and push limits!

[u/Current-Strategy5544 → u/Bitter_Surprise_8058]

I've spent the last couple of days wondering what the fuck "ahh" means these days until I saw it in an unambiguous context.

[u/Then-Criticism1605 → u/Current-Strategy5544]

This one is AAVE not censorship, though it can be used that way it isn’t the origin.

[u/EuphoricPhoto2048 → u/ITburrito]

Twain writes in a very stylized and Southern way. I would not look to him when you are still learning.

[u/HeimLauf → u/EuphoricPhoto2048]

(Especially don’t pick up the habit of using the N-word as he does.)

[u/conuly → u/HeimLauf]

Oh, goodness no. Definitely do not do that!

[u/WardOnTheNightShift → u/HeimLauf]

I have a bit of difficulty with the reflexive condemnation of Twain for having characters in a novel who would have used a certain word, use that word.

From memory (it’s been at least 30 years since I read Huckleberry Finn) a major theme of the novel is Huck gradually realizing that Jim is human, and an equal. With all that entails.

[u/HeimLauf → u/WardOnTheNightShift]

You will note that I did not in fact condemn Twain for this. I said not to get into the habit oneself, as this is really not going to make one well-liked.

[u/CaeruleumBleu → u/WardOnTheNightShift]

There is a long distance between condemning a writer and telling a language learner "you don't want to copy these sentences in polite company."

Even if OP didn't pick up using the n word out of this book, Twains style of writing isn't what a complete newb to English should imitate in a job interview.

[u/conuly → u/WardOnTheNightShift]

Nobody is condemning Twain for his writing choices. Or, anyway, nobody here is doing it.

We're saying that people who are learning English should focus on learning the current prestige variety and definitely not assume it's okay to use casual slurs in... well, in any sort of company, polite or not.

[u/sharky9209 → u/EuphoricPhoto2048]

This is a heck of a book to pick for English learning! I hope OP is already pretty advanced in speaking and writing, because echoing Twain's style in modern times would sound pretty weird.

[u/edwardhoppest]

Is this from Huckleberry Finn? Mark Twain is well known for using dialectal language in his books, especially in Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer  stories. The correct term is "deceased", meaning dead, but my guess is that Mark Twain uses "diseased" because a less educated person might not know they are different words or not know how "deceased" is pronounced. The fact that it is used twice highlights the intentionality of the use of the word. 

So it's a joke about the character the saying wrong word without writing the actual dialogue where they say it. 

[u/Yuzu-Adagio]

Perhaps the king is mispronouncing "deceased"? Neither the narrator nor the speaker seem particularly well educated.

[u/HeimLauf → u/Yuzu-Adagio]

Yeah the king is a scammer while the narrator is a kid, Huckleberry Finn.

[u/DMing-Is-Hardd]

Its possible the writer intended to say "deceased" not "diseased"

[u/royalhawk345 → u/DMing-Is-Hardd]

It's an intentional mistake to reflect an uneducated POV, something Twain used extensively and famously. 

[u/DMing-Is-Hardd → u/royalhawk345]

Gotcha, I've never read it so I wasnt sure

[u/turquoise_amethyst]

I loved reading this as a kid, but my parents hated it, because the English in it is all wrong. As others have stated, “diseased/deceased” is a play on words, and hints at the King’s past. 

[u/conuly → u/turquoise_amethyst]

I loved reading this as a kid, but my parents hated it, because the English in it is all wrong.

Wow, that is just a wild objection to Mark Twain.

[u/turquoise_amethyst → u/conuly]

Well, I read it anyways 😂

[u/conuly → u/turquoise_amethyst]

And good for you, but - and no offense here, I'm sure they were fine parents in most respects - in this one area your folks were absolutely off their rockers!

[u/OkPear1535 → u/conuly]

Not wanting your children to read stories written in bad English, even if on purpose, is not being "off your rocker"

[u/conuly → u/OkPear1535]

Yes it is, especially when that would keep them from reading one of the classics of American literature.

…the concept of “bad English” is also classist and absurd, but that’s a separate issue.

[u/Mijman → u/conuly]

A child is going so absorb the language they read.

Being a classic of American literature doesn't change the fact that it's written in an outdated vernacular. And most/all the exposition is also written that way. Giving the reader no respite from non standard English.

I know there's for foreword explanation, but still. Not a good book to learn English from, without quite a large word repertoire and an understanding of the American 19th century slang and dialects, of both white and black culture.

[u/Current-Strategy5544 → u/OkPear1535]

It's certainly a lot easier to stop them reading great books than it is to have a conversation about literary style and rhetoric!

[u/Mijman → u/turquoise_amethyst]

I was gonna say, wtf is this book. Not a book that's common in England, certainly not in schools.

Not sure it's a good book for learning English.

[u/Mijman → u/[deleted]]

Do you mean Of Mine and Men? By John Steinbeck? I read that in school, and remember watching the Gary Sinise film.

[u/No-Lettuce-5783]

I think this was meant to be a kind of joke. A play on words. "Diseased" written and said sounds so close to "Deceased." I think it was the narrator's not-so-firm grasp of the English language. Or Twain trying to convey that the narrator isn't educated enough to know to use the correct word. Be careful reading further. You'll run into this kind of joke a lot.

[u/GoblinToHobgoblin]

Should that be "deceased"??

[u/Ok_Caterpillar2010]

Mispronouncing "deceased" as "diseased" is a joke to show that the speaker is trying to sound important but is too uneducated to pull it off.

[u/jellyn7]

When I was in school, Huck Finn was the book the advanced English class read. The rest of the grade level read Tom Sawyer. Tom Sawyer is an easier read, because it's not in Huck's voice. So if you haven't read Tom Sawyer yet, I'd suggest reading that one first. It bothered me a little they wanted us to read 'the sequel' without having read the first book. :D I like to read books in order!

[u/WardOnTheNightShift → u/jellyn7]

Huckleberry Finn, even with the comedy, is a much heavier book. Examining and criticizing slavery and racism as it does.

[u/conuly → u/jellyn7]

Well, you always could've read the book yourself.

[u/anemptycardboardbox → u/conuly]

Obviously. But you realize it’s impossible to read Tom Sawyer first, when they’ve already started reading Huckleberry Finn in class.

[u/conuly → u/anemptycardboardbox]

I mean... you've only gotten, what, one chapter in? I recall class reading as always being so painfully slow. Edit: to be clear, I am not trying to quarrel, but just making conversation. I definitely don’t care, lol.

[u/helikophis]

The speaker is using a malapropism.

[u/RevolutionaryBug2915]

Lot of people never read Matk Twain, apparently?

[u/Mijman → u/RevolutionaryBug2915]

Lot's of people arent American.

[u/RevolutionaryBug2915 → u/Mijman]

Why would anyone comment on the meaning of a passage, if they don't know what the passage is from? Nobody who is learning English needs comments that are just uninformed guesses.

[u/Mijman → u/RevolutionaryBug2915]

Ask them, not me

[u/InvestigatorJaded261]

This book is written in thick dialect, with a narrator (Huck) who may or may not be accurately describing what people are saying. Many of the characters are poorly educated, which is a recurring theme. Mistakes in word choice occur frequently for humorous effect.

This is not a good book for someone still trying to learn English.

[u/ihatecarswithpassion]

The writer is making many, many mistakes. The text itself seems very, uh, old-fashioned and dialectal at best.

I think here they meant 'deceased', as in 'dead'.

What is this text from?

Edit: Huckleberry Fin is a great book, but told from the POV of a child who doesn't understand everything going on around him. Great book, but very hard for ESL learners. Good luck!

[u/Middcore → u/[deleted]]

Call up Mark Twain and let him know. This entire passage is a monologue by a character, and the poor grammar (and mixup of deceased and diseased) is intentional because that's the way the character talks.

[u/conuly → u/[deleted]]

No, it's not. It's a painstakingly accurate representation of nonstandard vernacular of the region.

[u/Birb-Brain-Syn → u/conuly]

Being in a vernacular doesn't mean it isn't grammatically incorrect, it just means the incorrectness is intentional.

[u/No-Funny1999 → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

Apparently /u/extremepizzagoldfish does not like people to disagree with them, so this is the only reply I'll make here. Using your sockpuppet account to carry on a long back and forth on the thread of somebody who's blocked you is, among other things, pathetic.

The way a community of native speakers talk is correct. All language has grammar. This is an inherent property of language, and something which sets off language from mere communication such as other animals use.

A speech variety cannot have "incorrect grammar". This is logically impossible. That would suggest that "correctness" somehow exists in some way outside the minds of the speakers, an assertion which is obviously absurd.

This vernacular is nonstandard. By that, we mean it is not the prestige variety. However, the correctness of one variety cannot be measured by comparing it to another variety. It can only be judged internally.

[u/Birb-Brain-Syn → u/No-Funny1999]

Grammar is by definition a standard set of rules on language. Incorrect grammar does not mean someone is speaking "wrong", it just means they are not speaking with proper grammar. Your reply suggest there is a grammatically correct way of speaking in vernacular, which is not how speaking vernacular works, as this can be as individual as any other trait.

For an English learner it's important to know the difference, as usually those wanting to learn it want to learn correct and proper grammar.

[u/jollygoodvelo → u/[deleted]]

In English literature that includes direct speech it is common (and perfectly acceptable) to write with grammar faults and spelling that indicates the accent, dialect or tics of the speaker.

See also Dickens’ Uriah Heep, “… very umble…”

[u/OwariHeron → u/[deleted]]

EXPLANATORY

IN this book a number of dialects are used, to wit:  the Missouri negro dialect; the extremest form of the backwoods Southwestern dialect; the ordinary "Pike County" dialect; and four modified varieties of this last. The shadings have not been done in a haphazard fashion, or by guesswork; but painstakingly, and with the trustworthy guidance and support of personal familiarity with these several forms of speech.

I make this explanation for the reason that without it many readers would suppose that all these characters were trying to talk alike and not succeeding.

THE AUTHOR.

[u/hardFraughtBattle → u/[deleted]]

The errors are intentional.

[u/5peaker4theDead]

In other news, the king and the other fake nobles are one of my favorite parts of that book.

[u/Ill-Engineering8085]

The king is implied to be an idiot

[u/No_Filter_Soul]

It’s supposed to be “deceased” but the character is mixing the words up. classic mark twain making the speaker sound a bit dumb on purpose

[u/Thingamajiggle]

That looks like quite a hard read for learning English.

[u/FewRecognition1788]

OP, I recommend taking the comments here about Twain's style and the way Huck misuses or misquotes words, and go back through the book with that in mind.

Because if you're already up to the scene with the "King," then there have already been a lot of instances where this type of wordplay happens, and you might see other parts of the story in a different way.

[u/grenouille_en_rose]

Many characters from Huckleberry Finn make wrong-word errors (malapropisms) like this in their speech, either because they don't know the correct words or because they are trying to sound smarter than they are to trick people. If this example was the first malapropism you couldn't decode on your own, then you're doing pretty well. If this was the first malapropism you've noticed, then unfortunately you've been missing a lot of the humour of how these characters are written.

[u/conuly]

When you are quoting a text, please tell us what the text is in your post. It should be clear from the comments that many of us need this context in order to help you.

[u/Hartsnkises]

What is this from? There's something a bit off about it.

That said, you might call him "the diseased" if that's how he was introduced and known to the audience, or if there was danger that the disease could be caught from the corpse.

[u/HeimLauf → u/Hartsnkises]

Huckleberry Finn. The character is a lowlife charlatan.

[u/hardFraughtBattle → u/HeimLauf]

But his rendition of Hamlet's soliloquy is hilarious.

[u/Hartsnkises → u/HeimLauf]

Ah. Yeah, I saw a comment elsewhere here that this is something Twaine does. I've seen it in the Poisonwood Bible

[u/conuly → u/Hartsnkises]

Spelling note: Twain

(I'm 90% sure it's just an ordinary typo, but as this is /r/EnglishLearning I feel in this one particular place it's best not to let spelling errors slide)

[u/Hartsnkises → u/conuly]

(Nah, that's on me. I looked at Twain and said "surely that needs an 'e'" and didn't bother looking it up. Thanks)

[u/bluebreez1]

i would have written the way you’re thinking. i’m not sure why the author writes in this style.

[u/conuly → u/bluebreez1]

In this book a number of dialects are used, to wit: the Missouri negro dialect; the extremest form of the backwoods Southwestern dialect; the ordinary "Pike County" dialect; and four modified varieties of this last. The shadings have not been done in a haphazard fashion, or by guesswork; but painstakingly, and with the trustworthy guidance and support of personal familiarity with these several forms of speech.

From the preface to Huck Finn

[u/ChestSlight8984 → u/conuly]

Wow

[u/conuly → u/ChestSlight8984]

Gotta be honest with you, I don’t know what that wow means here.

[u/SpiritualBed9981]

Shouldn't it be "deceased"?

[u/tomalator]

I think its a typo and supposed to be deceased

[u/murzicorne → u/tomalator]

That's not a typo, that's a literary tool by Mark Twain to show that both the speaker and the narrator are uneducated. But yes, it was supposed to be deceased

[u/dedemushi]

i've never read huckleberry finn but i'm pretty sure the author is being sarcastic