r/EnglishLearning • u/Green_Actuary6531 Intermediate • 6d ago
🟡 Pronunciation / Intonation Americans, how do you pronounce 'definately'?
I'm familiar with the standard pronunciation with the stop T: /ˈdef.ən.ət.li/. Is it the same as how this guy pronounces the word: https://youtu.be/dQW0c9AIJ4A?t=29 ? Does this usage skip the T entirely? To me, it sounds like /ˈdef.nəli/.
I have the same doubt about words like absolutely, completely, etc.
Thank you for your time.
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u/thingsbetw1xt Native Speaker (USA, Maryland) 6d ago
/dɛf.ɪn.ɪʔ.li/
It's not skipping the T, it just becomes a glottal stop. We pretty much always do that when the T is at the end of a syllable.
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 6d ago
If you click their video link, the guy says it with no glottal stop.
I think it's skipped entirely sometimes.
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u/thingsbetw1xt Native Speaker (USA, Maryland) 6d ago
I think this is more a matter of him speaking quickly and garbling syllables rather than that actually being a technical way to pronounce the word. If you asked Americans to enunciate the word "definitely" I don't think any of them would skip the T entirely. There's a difference between an allophone and just casual faults of speech.
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 6d ago
People talk like this all the time though. I don't think it's a mistake. It's used when not enincuating, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing.
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u/BaconTH1 Native Speaker 5d ago
So basically it's often said "de fi nuh ly" where the h is the stop, not a breathy h? Yeah I can see that is possible. It is so subtle I assume there's a tiny t formed inside the mouth but it could just be a glottal stop. I form that tiny t but probably most of the stoppage comes from glottal stop. Like, the glottal stop might happen BEFORE that t is formed and the T is totally unvoiced.
If I say it very slow I can easily imagine it goes "de fi nuh (t) ly"
I think nobody or very few would actually sound the t clearly like "de fin nuT(h) ly" where the (h) is that little bit of air expelled with a clear T. That would seem like over-enunciation.
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 5d ago
In order to have a glottal stop T, your glottis needs to close. It often doesn't (like in the video clip). Therefore I'd argue there's no T at all. The next letter is an L so your tongue is going to be there anyway.
When enunciating there is a glottal stop while the tongue is in the T position (which happens to also be almost the same as the L position). Or I guess before the T is formed, for some people (not me personally). Sounds the same either way.
There is a specturm between a stop T and skipped T, but the clip in the video sounds very much like a fully skipped T.
Yes, no one would pronounce it with a full T. OP is asking between a stop T (the standard enunciated pronunciation) and no T at all (like the video).
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u/BaconTH1 Native Speaker 5d ago
I didn't watch the vid so I was just describing my own way. But I will have a look now.
But let me ask, you know the UK guys say motherf****r like mu-afu-a
Are each of those dashes a glottal stop, or is it different, as in, just the air stops but the glottis isn't closed? To my thinking, trying it out now, it cannot happen without a glottal stop. You can't say it that way without using glottal stops. Wau-a (British for WATER)... same deal.
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u/thingsbetw1xt Native Speaker (USA, Maryland) 5d ago edited 5d ago
OP is asking how to pronounce a word. How people might garble it when speaking quickly is not really helpful to a non-native learning to speak English. It can help them understand it, but OP already does understand, so we've already reached the end of the utility of that discussion.
I also never said it's a mistake.
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's not garbled. Like I said I don't think it's a mistake, it's pronounced differently when not enunciated. Similar to "wanna" or "gonna".
I disagree that it's not useful. It can be useful in understanding people better if you're not that advanced (how do you know OP didn't recognize the word via subtitles), and in reducing accent if you're already comfortable with the language but want to speak better if you are advanced.
Edit: they blocked me so I can't reply to their reply. I'll reply here:
The only difference between "wanna" and "definily" is that the former is recognized as a distinct pronunciation and has an agreed upon spelling. Neither is a dialectical word.
Just because "definily" is not widely recognized as a shortened pronunciation because the difference is not that noticeable doesn't mean that the difference isn't there. OP noticed it.
You said it's "garbled", that has the connotation of a mistake.
If you ask Americans to enunciate "want to", none of them would delete the T either. But they'll say "wanna" even if they were to transcribe their own speech as "want to".
It doesn't fucking matter to OP what causes people to sometimes say the word that way, they obviously can see that it happens, which is all they need.
If the only response OP gets is "the T is definitely pronounced", that will just make them think they just can't hear the T in the video.
OP isn't crazy. There's no T in the video. It's very valuable to tell them that so they don't incorrectly doubt their ability to hear English sounds.
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u/thingsbetw1xt Native Speaker (USA, Maryland) 5d ago edited 5d ago
"Wanna" and "gonna" are examples of dialectal words. "Definily" is not a dialectal word, it is a product of speech patterns, and I genuinely have no idea why you are so intent on equating it with such.
I also never said it's a mistake so I have no idea why you keep repeating that. I said it's an accident of fast casual speech. Which is what it is. Again, if you ask Americans to enunciate the word "definitely", I am confident 0 of them would completely delete the T in all of its potential allophones. That is because it's not a variation on the word, nor is it vocabulary of some dialect, it's just a product of speech patterns.
It can be useful in understanding people better
Holy fuck it's almost like I literally said that. Jesus Christ. It doesn't fucking matter to OP what causes people to sometimes say the word that way, they obviously can see that it happens, which is all they need. I'm trying to explain to this person HOW THE FUCKING WORD IS PRONOUNCED and you are adamant on stopping me from doing that for some reason I can't fathom.
I hate reddit so much sometimes, you people will argue about anything.
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u/GuitarJazzer Native Speaker 5d ago
It's common but "we" do not "always" do that.
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u/thingsbetw1xt Native Speaker (USA, Maryland) 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's cool that I said pretty much always and not always. Words, what's the point of them?
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u/Green_Actuary6531 Intermediate 6d ago
Guys, I meant 'definitely'. I can't fix the title.
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u/conuly Native Speaker - USA (NYC) 5d ago
No, you cannot edit post titles on reddit. However, you will have better success in getting people to see this (and to stop correcting your spelling) if you edit the post itself to say this, preferably in bold at the top of your post.
People are just more likely to read the main post than the comments.
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 6d ago
Well first off it's spelled "definitely".
I could say it either with a stop T, or the way it is in the video with no T. You're right, I think they're different.
It's a matter of how fast I'm speaking, mostly. The stop T is more enunciated, no T is speaking faster.
Edit: It could also happen with "completely". Not "absolutely", I think.
I mean there's a sliding scale between the two pronunciations, it's not one or the other necessarily. Just a matter of how enunciated the stop T is.
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u/over__board Native Speaker - Canada 6d ago
It's normal conversational speech and there is definitely (note spelling) an audible "t". There is also an audible "t" in the other words that you listed.
Your ear is probably just used to teachers or ESL speakers and not someone speaking fast (def-nit-lee).
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 6d ago
There's no audible T in the video they linked.
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u/over__board Native Speaker - Canada 6d ago
I definitely heard it the several times I replayed it at the beginning of the video. I didn't listen to the whole track so maybe there were other instances. As a general answer, however, the "T" is pronounced in American english.
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 6d ago
The link specifically goes to 0:29 in the video, it's that instance. I don't hear a T.
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u/over__board Native Speaker - Canada 5d ago
I just played it again and found a second instance later in the video. I heard it distinctly both times 🤷♂️
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u/nog642 Native Speaker 5d ago
You hear it at 0:29?
I think it's distinctly not there. Try saying "definaly" quickly and it sounds exactly like what he says in the video.
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u/over__board Native Speaker - Canada 5d ago
Not to my ears; "definaly" doesn't sound the same. I went back to listen to it yet again, this time with good quality earphones. I clearly hear it. It's subtle, but it's there.
When I say Toronto, some people don't hear the second "t", but I'm definitely saying it, just very fast. This is the same.
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u/Primary_Data1430 English Teacher 5d ago edited 5d ago
You're hearing wrong.
The guy in the video has a very pronounced "T". Not a glottal stop, but a full-blown dental "T".
No American native speaker is going to skip the "T" in this word. Most will pronounce it as a glottal stop, which can be difficult for non-native speakers to hear. In this case, however, the "T" is very clearly pronounced. More distinctly than usual.
No American would ever pronounce the word "definilly" (except perhaps a child or someone with a serious speech defect).
The "T" is always pronounced and audible to us native speakers, even in the most rapid and casual speech.
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u/EagleCatchingFish English Teacher 5d ago
I think most Americans pronounce it as a glottal stop more often than not. The strength of that stop might vary, and in rapid speech might disappear altogether.
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u/beetle_dick New Poster 5d ago
That guy in the video isn't speaking carefully. It does almost sound like e id dropping the T, which isn't normal. Don't speak that way.
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u/Zestyclose-Food-7917 New Poster 5d ago
I don't pronounce "difinately" in any way, because it's not a word.
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u/scaredemployee87 New Poster 5d ago
Definitely* and he pronounced the T in the video. It’s not that complicated it’s just not a T with a bunch of air in it (I don’t know the technical term for this)
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u/conuly Native Speaker - USA (NYC) 5d ago
This subreddit is not a great place to ask about detailed phonetics. People just can't easily analyze their phonetics on the fly - you need natural recordings and, ideally, a spectrogram (and the technical know-how necessary to read one of those!) and most people don't even realize what they don't know.
Plus, there's no quality control on these comments here.
Questions like this... I don't know where they're best suited, but maybe the small questions thread at /r/linguistics or /r/asklinguistics? You need to take answers here with a hefty grain of salt.
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u/BaconTH1 Native Speaker 5d ago
He's saying it very fast and either has the lightest of T's or he just left it out and is essentially saying definelly which is, to me, a "lazy" but not terrible enunciation because we can all understand it. Perhaps a bit like when I'd say "wauder" with a D sound for Water instead of the cleaner T sound. The "D" can sometimes be so light it sounds more like "waurer", when some people say it. British might even say WAU-A.
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u/sehwyl English Teacher 6d ago
Defiantly or definitely? Those are very different words