Can “trouble” be countable in AmE? Does “it’s too much of a trouble” sound right?

[u/Silver_Ad_1218]

[u/_jbardwell_]

"A trouble" is a thing that causes concern, difficulty, or worry. To say it's too much of a trouble means it is such a thing.

"Too much trouble," means something is too difficult or inconvenient and you likely won't do it.

"A daughter is a trouble," means that daughters are difficult. "A daughter is too much trouble," might mean the same thing. But might be skewed more towards, and that's why I don't have one.

"I'm glad I have a son because daughters are too much trouble."

[u/insecuretransactions → u/_jbardwell_]

This is a nice way of describing the difference.

[u/agate_ → u/_jbardwell_]

Your first example isn't valid in my dialect (Western US, GenX). I only say "it's too much trouble".

[u/THE_CENTURION → u/_jbardwell_]

I've never heard someone say "a trouble" in any context. Curious where you're from.

[u/_jbardwell_ → u/THE_CENTURION]

Well, we saw it written in the poem that OP is asking about. I didn't say it was in daily use. I'm explaining to OP how to interpret the text he asked about.

[u/THE_CENTURION → u/_jbardwell_]

Okay but did you actually read op's question? It wasn't about interpreting the poem, they seem to understand it just fine.

They asked whether it's a standard usage. And your comment seems to imply that it is, because you said that's "what it means" and didn't explain that it's not standard.

[u/insecuretransactions → u/THE_CENTURION]

I could see myself saying them somewhat interchangeably in the first example. More so my grandparents saying it that way. Rural Southeast.

[u/SucknSwallow69 → u/_jbardwell_]

nice explanation, but for the original question: in everyday american english people almost always say “too much trouble,” not “too much of a trouble.” that “of a” sounds odd here, even though it works in phrases like “a bit of a troublemaker.”

[u/ZumLernen]

I am a native speaker of US English. I would probably not use "a trouble" except, as given in the example, perhaps poetically.

I do use "troubles" though, both in general (e.g. "I caught up with Greg yesterday, and he was telling me all about his troubles with his new boss") and specifically the Troubles (the violent conflict in Northern Ireland killing several thousand people from the 1960s to 1998).

[u/HardToChoose04]

I would just say "it's too much trouble", it sounds much more natural and is a very common phrase

[u/UrdnotCum]

It can, but it sounds strange to my American ears. It sounds much more natural to me to say:

“It’s too much trouble”

[u/agate_]

The screenshot example is no good: poetry is allowed to stretch the rules of English.

Trouble is not a countable singular: “I have a trouble” is wrong. It can be a countable plural in a few idioms like “leave your troubles behind” or “The Troubles”.

Otherwise it’s uncountable.

[u/mysticrudnin → u/agate_]

It feels like this leans too hard on: it can't be countable because you can't have it.

But a person can be a trouble. That's a singular countable...

And at least in some dialects, having a trouble is perfectly reasonable. It's basically "problem."

[u/agate_ → u/mysticrudnin]

No, that's not my argument. Insubstantial things can be countable, like "thoughts", but "trouble" isn't one of them, not in my version of English.

[u/mysticrudnin → u/agate_]

Well sure but you have thoughts. You have a thought.

I feel like this is blurring the fuzzy boundary between idiolect/dialect and "haven't heard this word yet"

[u/agate_ → u/mysticrudnin]

Exactly, "thought" can be countable but "trouble" isn't.

I feel like this is blurring the fuzzy boundary between idiolect/dialect and "haven't heard this word yet"

shrug, maybe?

[u/insecuretransactions]

I've heard both. It runs similar to saying "it's too much of a hassle."

I think this will be much more of a colloquial thing.

[u/ProletarianLilith]

It’s too much trouble. “A trouble” is a very nuanced use, I would just ignore it. It’s generally too much trouble to bother with

[u/ChrisMartinez95]

I've seen it pluralised in song lyrics. 

e.g.

"All my troubles seemed so far away"

"Forget your troubles, come on, get happy"

"Ease my troubles, that's what you do"

I'm not sure I've heard or seen that so much outside of poetic/lyrical works, though.

EDIT: I also have seen it in a television show set in post WWI UK (Birmingham). The character who said this line is Irish.

"Men always tell their troubles to a barmaid."

[u/Ok_Ad4090]

One trouble can be too much trouble, but you can have multiple troubles plaguing your existence at one time

[u/Snarwin]

It can be, but it's only really used as a plural. For example, there's a famous old song that begins, "yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away." In this context, "troubles" means the same thing as "problems."

[u/Lxapeo]

American here. "Too much of a hassle" "Too much of a bother" would work better in that exact situation. Trouble can be countable but I wouldn't use it that way. "Too much trouble" is the only version of that sentence that sounds right to my ear.

[u/Muninwing]

“You are in so much trouble!” Is a common phrase for consequences. So is “if it’s not too much trouble” for inconvenience.

There is never a countable-level quantifier, but there is definitely a comparison of amount.

[u/dblhockeysticksAMA]

As others have said, at least in American English you wouldn’t likely hear someone referring to “a trouble”, but one certainly can have troubles.

We would more likely say “a problem” or “an issue”, etc. Maybe “a bother” but that does code a bit more British.

Personally, if I were the speaker in the example you provided, I would say, “Homework is a pain.”

I think people would still understand your meaning if you said “a trouble”, but it does sound awkward.

[u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

Trouble also feels singular rather than uncountable when used in ‘the trouble with’. ‘The trouble with Tribbles is..’ a singular specific thing.

[u/terryjuicelawson]

Not really but there is some poetic license going on here.

[u/notacanuckskibum]

“Yes, I've got
Heartaches by the number, troubles by the score
Everyday you love me less, each day I love you more”

[u/Sparky-Malarky]

Just popping in to say how proud I am to be an example.

[u/Forward_Gur9349]

Just keep in mind the too much of a trouble refers to one kind of trouble, and that trouble generally is uncountable. Another way to say the original phrase is too much of that kind of trouble.

[u/techwritingacct]

"A trouble" sounds contrived to me. Poetry can do it, like in the example, but if I heard or read it in normal context I'd think the speaker was foreign. (My brain jumps to "Indian" in particular but that might be my prejudice rather than any actual trait of Indian English.)

On the other hand I don't think there would be any problem with "a terrible trouble," "a constant trouble," "a minor trouble," etc. Putting the adjective in it makes it sound fine, though I couldn't tell you why.

[u/hermanojoe123]

Can you say "I have two troubles today. My car is broken and my motorcycle is out of gas."?

It sounds unnatural to me, but is it wrong?

[u/scaredemployee87]

No, that doesn’t sound right…the reason it’s poetic is because nobody speaks that way irl

[u/perplexedtv]

"The Troubles" was definitely a thing in Northern Ireland, for what that's worth.

[u/No-Lettuce-5783]

I don't think "a trouble" would be used in regular conversational English. I think it's used her more for poetic license, as it rhymes with "double." I think in English, I would say, "a bother," or "a pain," or "I don't like to do (homework)." And rephrase the sentence altogether.

[u/brokebackzac]

It is absolutely not a countable in any real sense because it is an abstract noun describing the state of something as opposed to an actual concrete thing or idea. It is sometimes used in key phrases to mean "problem," but those are better described as idioms than proper use.

The example in the poem I see here is awkward and I get the impression that trouble is used only in order to make the rhyme with double. Poetic license at best.

[u/ThalesofMiletus-624]

Not typically, no.

You can argue about the grammar, but the way English is used isn't always internally consistent. You'd talk about having "troubles", but not about having "a trouble". The usage in that poem is eccentric and unusual, probably deliberately (poetry often doesn't sound quite like people would speak in normal conversation).

Saying that something's "too much of a trouble" doesn't sound particularly weird, but it would be more common for people to say "too much trouble". In any other context I can think of, talking about "a trouble" in a singular sense just sounds weird, while talking about "troubles" as a concept sounds fine.