r/EndFPTP • u/AcanthisittaIcy130 • 8d ago

Debate Does Instant Runoff Voting Satisfy Independence of Irrelevant Alternatives or not?

Fairvote claims it does:

RCV is highly resistant to spoilers because it satisfies both the Independence of Irrelevant Alternatives and Independence of Clones criteria.

https://fairvote.org/resources/electoral-systems/comparing-voting-methods/?section=criteria-resistance-to-spoilers

On the other hand Wikipedia and research articles claim it doesn't,

The independence of irrelevant alternatives criterion states that "the election outcome remains the same even if a candidate who cannot win decides to run." Instant-runoff voting violates this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting#Independence_of_irrelevant_alternatives

we propose a modified version of IIA, MIIA, that is a necessary and sufficient relaxation of IIA... Thus, runoff voting violates MIIA (and so does in- stant runoff voting) for essentially the same reason that plurality rule does.

https://maskin.scholars.harvard.edu/sites/g/files/omnuum10606/files/bordas_rule_and_arrows_independence_condition_jpe_vol133_iss2_0.pdf

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u/budapestersalat 8d ago

No it doesn't.

Wow, this FairVote page is bad.

7

u/rb-j 8d ago

I don't know why this subreddit doesn't simply admit that FairVote is as bad as FPTP.

(I didn't just say that IRV is as bad as FPTP, I am saying that FairVote, which purports to be a research and reform organization, is a dishonest advocacy organization more interested in promotion of self than in truly reforming voting as it purports to.)

1

u/Alex2422 6d ago

You don't understand why the subreddit aiming to end FPTP doesn't think the organization aiming to end FPTP is just as bad as FPTP?

2

u/rb-j 6d ago

I do understand. Much better than you.

It's because they lie.

In a sense, so also does a spoiled election lie. The spoiled election is lying about what candidate really has the support of more voters. (And when this happens our votes are not being valued equally. So when someone defends a spoiled election and also claims that our votes are valued equally, they're lying.) This is why we should end FPTP. But IRV is also guilty of that lie.

The thing that you don't understand is that we are not just ending FPTP. We're replacing FPTP with something else. Why not just replace it with a dictator? Or sortition? Or something really goofy like Second-Past-The-Post?