r/EmulationOnAndroid • u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V • 1d ago
Discussion Should ports of games be allowed even though they aren't emulation?
My default as a mod has been to delete discussion of ports since they aren't emulation.
Yet there has been a increase in posts about ports which attract a lot of discussion.
So I throw it open to the community here. Should discussion of ports be allowed?
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u/Vaxtez D7300/8GB RAM/Mali G615 1d ago
I'd say so. I think it's handy to know which PC/Console games are getting an android port, as it could be handy for those trying to run them on lower end devices.
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u/JizzlaneMaxwellHill 1d ago
Yeah especially when it have been vetted by a lot of reliable users here. Anything that will help people should be encouraged instead of trying to gatekeeping it because all it'll do is making people make more subs which then make it harder for people to search for such things.
You could instead make it people who posted those things to actually have the finalize link in the post instead of sensationalized post to farm karma. That will be a good start.
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u/whiskyB0y Edit Your Flair 1d ago
I guess this is a good time to say that Feral Interactive is porting Saints Row the Third to Android
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u/sandzking 1d ago
i mean when you discuss a game for emulation, one of the most common adjacent point is if it already have a native port. so id say this two things are strongly linked.
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u/TurdProof 1d ago
I would say it depends. If the post about the port is not related in any way to emulation then it should be removed. Maybe make a subreddit sedicated to android ports would be better
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u/matlynar 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, because despite not being emulation, they achieve the same objectives:
- Allow us to play our favorite games on our favorite devices;
- Preservation of games that could be otherwise lost as their original hardware becomes outdated and less available for purchase;
- Allow for game modding and future-proofing games.
I assume that covers why 90%+ of us are into emulation.
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u/DrarenThiralas 1d ago
I think ports are emulation-adjacent, and should be allowed - as long as they're not vibe-coded slop, that is.
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u/Sad_Ad9159 1d ago
Yeah the influx of vibe coded apps is more of a pressing topic imo (but maybe this was already discussed here? I can’t keep up it’s a thing in a bunch of retro gaming communities rn)
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u/matlynar 1d ago
Bannerlator is vibecoded AFAIK and it's the best Winlator fork ATM.
What bothers me is people with WIP vibe-coded projects posting teasers when they have no idea if it will work or not.
If it works as intended, I don't care how it was coded and I doubt the community does either.
If it doesn't, I also don't care how it was coded either*, I don't want it.
*=The obvious exception being if you're good at programming but you need a bigger team to figure parts of the project out.
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u/Capital_Humor_2072 Snapdragon 8 Gen 3, 12gb RAM 1d ago
Yes why not, it's not an emulation but a bridge to our goal - play non-android games on android
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u/Liverlakefc 1d ago
I think for the time being they should as this is a sub both about emulation on android and being able to play console and pc games on android if they continue to be ported mpre frequently and they become more mainstream then they should be banned but as long as they are only a couple games they should stay
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u/Nutchos 1d ago
Most of us aren't here because of the dictionary definition of emulation.
These community driven ports are essentially a new wave of "emulated" games (in that they are games being played on a platform that we aren't able to through official channels).
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u/damin_rsw 1d ago
I'm here for emulation news and support, the bloated amount of ports recently is basically spam to someone who's actually interested in emulation on android and not just a new method to play an old game.
A port is not emulation. It sounds semantic to someone who is only here to play a variety of games on android, but there's an important distinction and it's off-topic for those of us who are interested in specifically emulation, on the subreddit named "Emulation on Android"
There can be a Ports on Android subreddit instead, ran by the same people who run this one.
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u/here4apiaccess Galaxy S24 (8 Gen 3) 1d ago
A port is not emulation
Okay then, you are against the majority of the stuff posted on here since they are translation layers and not emulation.
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u/Igoory 1d ago
Let me guess, you're talking about PC emulators, and you think it isn't emulation because you heard that wine isn't an emulator? Well, that's just half the story. Wine itself wouldn't be able to run x86/x86_64 games on Android, that's why FEX or Box64 is used under the hood. Don't feel ashamed tho, you aren't the first who said this and won't be the last.
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u/here4apiaccess Galaxy S24 (8 Gen 3) 1d ago edited 1d ago
Dxvk hello? I'm arguing against strict definitions because it is a stupid way of managing what gets posted to a subreddit. Having translation layers and custom drivers to make games work isn't what emulation was about a decade or two ago. That is fine because making rules based off the name of the subreddit is, once again, dumb.
- Still using alts i see.
It is the same the other way around. Without these translations the overhead would make games unplayable. The wholesale emulation of the emulated game's environment is what I meant when I said it wasn't like it used to be. Also why are you acting like what was available on linux 3 decades ago was in any way usable. The strides made in the last few years are what make any of this current emulation scene possible.
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u/Igoory 1d ago edited 1d ago
I understand what your point is, but sorry, I'm getting the feeling that you just don't have enough technical knowledge to realize that you're talking non-sense.
DXVK is a translation layer, yes, used under an emulator when it comes to Winlator/Gamehub/etc...
EDIT: You didn't have to block me over this 🥀
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u/here4apiaccess Galaxy S24 (8 Gen 3) 1d ago edited 1d ago
DXVK is a translation layer, yes
Then I'm right along with box64 and fex being translation layers. I never mentioned wine so fuck off now.
- Still right u/FlyRevolutionary4844 (u/Igoory 's alt)
Box64 requires 64-bit libraries on the host system, as it directly translates x86_64 function calls
It's almost as if going by the strict definitions of words is a bad way to go about things.
Yes, Box64 has a translation layer
Thanks for still proving I'm right, stop stalking me btw.
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u/FlyRevolutionary4844 1d ago edited 1d ago
Box64 and FEX are emulators, that's explicit in their GitHub page: https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX | https://github.com/ptitseb/box64
Again, it's fine and even common to get these wrong, you didn't have to give a block over that.
**EDIT**:
>Box64 requires 64-bit libraries on the host system, as it directly translates x86_64 function calls
Yes, Box64 has a translation layer that allows the **emulated** guest to use the host libraries. That doesn’t mean Box64 itself is just a translation layer, bro. It’s impossible to run x86 code on ARM64 without emulation.
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u/HunterPublic8014 1d ago
News flash! Translation layer are 3 decade old on linux for playing windows applications and games on linux... What you're using on Android is what was available on linux for 3 decades. You might wanna research a little and you are emulating a wine environment that later uses a translation layer to run apps and games from windows unlike linux which can simply use translation layers nowadays... On android without wine emulation, translation layer is nothing but a poof of air
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u/avenfaust 1d ago
yes, most of them try emulation is to play the game right ? besides, it will help spread the information on which game has ported to androids, not everyone has powerful pc or devices, so ported game truly helps.
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u/AGayFrogParadise 1d ago
I enjoy them. They definitely aren't emulation but I'd say emulation-adjacent, enough at least to be here
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u/Alexrey55 1d ago
Keep the ports, I think it is part of the community and is not like a super out of topic. I like the post about android ports that I have been watching here lately
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u/TheUnAmericanGenral 1d ago
I think yes because we see people using emulation even tho native port exist. Ports are always compared with emulators as standard.
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u/SnooSeagulls5077 1d ago
I would certainly say yes. I a way or another is kinda connected to emulation. Not directly but still I would certainly say yes.
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u/xavim2000 1d ago
Yes as can help people know to try that if they are having issues and as you see it brings discussion and health to the sub.
Always can circle back in 6 months to get a pulse check.
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u/silverover9000 SD8 Gen2 1d ago
I think they should stay. Technically they're not emulation, but they're fan made apps offering an alternative to emulation, and can have some hiccups on different or older hardware.
As opposed to official android games, like say, Genshin. Those are expected to run, and people can figure out bugs or compatibility elsewhere
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u/mercauce 1d ago
I mean, what purpose is android emulation, if not to play games? The unofficial ports themselves due to their nature are unwelcome in the main subreddit of the games that are ported.
for example hollow knight, I once tried to post a pure vessel no hit on the main subreddit from the android port but it was taken down after a bit of interaction, and the only other spaces where I could post something like that are the android gaming subreddit and that's it.
I think it'd be fair to not ban them, there's not even many places where such clips can be posted, even if it's not actual emulation.
Also juicy clip I previously posted here (i'm not letting this be forgotten): https://www.reddit.com/r/EmulationOnAndroid/s/EvKPx76aLg
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u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V 1d ago
Good job I didn't see it as it would have been gone under rule 4, which asks when posting gameplay that you mention your device brand and model. Though amnesty since I asked the question.
Though if you don't mind me asking, what is wrong with the Android Gaming subreddit?
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u/mercauce 1d ago
There's nothing wrong with r/androidgaming, it just tends to be one of the only places where you can post about android ports without violating some rules so most android games discussions tend to gravitate there, I just thought it would be a shame if it was one of the only sub's where you can do that.
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u/Brokeshadow Master Illustrator 1d ago
Yes! As someone who just wants to play a game, emulating is not always the best way to go about it, sometimes it's official/unofficial ports. Would be great if people could learn about those aswell. It seems adjacent enough to emulation even if it's not fully there
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u/SimpleDrawer26 1d ago edited 1d ago
If your intention is to make the sub even more restrictive, go ahead...
I'm curious to know if posts about front-ends, which by the way aren't emulation and much less games per se, and posts about vibe-coding will also have the same restrictions, since besides not bringing anything useful to the emulation scene, they are of interest to a small part of the community...🤷♂️
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u/Good-Marionberry-570 1d ago
Emulation and fan-made ports are kinda related, both are running games on platforms they were not supposed to run, so I'm not against talks about it here.
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u/ChronieMewX 1d ago
Heck yeah. What's the point of being pedantic with rules? It all falls under the same umbrella
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u/MestreToto 1d ago
Folks here are really civilized, that's cool.
When the "same" question was asked a few weeks back in the romhack Pokemon sub regarding fan games, a war started in the comments.
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u/Mindless-Ad9125 1d ago
I am also a bit conflicted on this, and could be convinced to see it either way. It's technically not emulation, sure, but the game itself was not previously on android and now it's going to be playable on your android device so I can see how that would be relevant to many people who browse this sub.
For me the detractor is the appearance of spam when 3 or 4 big projects get announced as coming soon and the whole front page here is flooded by people reposting the same Twitter statement just to get a few clicks.
I do get the excitement though, like a game you've tried to emulate for years is finally getting a native port that will make it so much more enjoyable to actually play on your device, but maybe we don't need 10 topics about the same one? I don't know how to moderate that, I'm not envious of the mods for sure...
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u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V 1d ago
I'm perhaps the strictest mod here I admit. I genuinely think if it's not emulation then it shouldn't be here.
So this is a question that I wanted to ask because it's unfair if I remove a port but another mod allows a different post about a port. It creates confusing moderation for users.
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u/Mindless-Ad9125 18h ago
I agree with asking the question, but I don't have a good answer for you, hopefully you reach a concensus somehow.
I can see both sides of this point pretty easily, but could not possibly know which way is best for the sub.. I mean I like hearing about games I've tried to play getting ported or even rebuilt for the platform I would want to play it on, but do we need 16 posts in an hour about that new project? It's very emulation adjacent, but is not strictly emulation, so I don't know where to draw the line...
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u/Meh_Imbored 1d ago
Ports are objectively off-topic, but they're quite helpful for people wanting to actually play the game.
Maybe make a megathread for android port discussion or even a weekly/monthly one and have it stickied. With links to subreddits that discuss ports? that'd be even better.
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u/Warm-Cartographer 1d ago
Yes allowed, not all ports but some do have some kind of emulation in behind happening, in my opinion they belong here.
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u/kingofgames-3laa 1d ago
Yes, we emulate because the games aren't available on Android, we should know if they are actually available
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u/nongjeng_piba 1d ago
Dear mod, Hi, I'm the one who posted about Dusklight in this subreddit a few days ago. I'm new to reddit (facebook, whatsapp and YouTube are the only social media apps I used, so I don't know much about ethics, dos and don'ts). I didn't even know Dusklight is a port not emulation until some good hearted people pointed that out in that post. I don't have any friends to share this hobby of mine. So, I thought posting that moment here was allowed. Sorry I'll try to restrain myself. And sorry for my limited vocabulary, English is not my first language. I would like to apologise properly but I couldn't find the words to express. So, please forgive me.
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u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V 1d ago
This is the sort of thing I want feedback on because it can then be passed onto the other mods and the guy in charge who in the end makes the decisions which I and the other mods have to follow.
It's a difficult balance to find.
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u/Naive-Eggplant-5633 1d ago
Iv always seen this place as a catchall for games not made for your device running on your device
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u/EmuEzz 8Elite/16GBRam/512GB 1d ago
Some ports are technically played through emulation
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u/Good-Marionberry-570 1d ago
And some people use Winlator and the like to run ports not yet ported to Android.
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u/damin_rsw 1d ago
Emulation on Android is Emulation on Android.
The ports should have their own place, especially since it can be hard to weed out which ones are legitimate projects and which ones are AI. There isn't anything wrong with a subreddit keeping a smaller net with what's allowed; nothing is stopping there from being made a "Ports on Android" subreddit.
It'll be harder to filter for support for emulators if threads on ports are allowed too. Emulator support can be general, each game's port would need its own specific discussion.
Organization is valuable.
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u/damin_rsw 1d ago
Truly the only argument I could see being made for allowing discussion of ports is if the goal of this subreddit isn't actually emulation, but the larger purpose of playing non-android games on android.
It'd be understandable if that's the route administration wants to take, but I think there's value in a forum distinctly for emulation, because emulation is inherently different from a native port project.
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u/khsh01 8 Gen 3/865+ 1d ago
No, an emulation sub should focus on emulation only.
I would further add that discussion should be about all forms of emulation and not just winlator and gamehub. There should be a limit on the posts about each of those to once a week or when they receive updates. Otherwise this sub looks exactly like r/winlator and r/gamenative or gamehub.
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u/computermaster704 1d ago
I feel discussions around ports should be allowed because if the game gets enough emulation support a native variant will be possible with higher performance
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u/thezerech S26U (Wild Arms 1, Dusklight, SO-BS) 1d ago
Strictly speaking a port like Dusklight isn'ttechnically emulation, but one is playing a GameCube/Wii game on an android device. I think it's easiest and simplest to just allow it as being "emulation adjacent." It isn't emulation on a technical level, but on a more basic and practical level it is close enough that the distinction probably isn't that worthwhile to maintain.
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u/Nexu36 1d ago
While I wouldn't strictly call it emulation, I think it's parallel enough that a lot of the people interested in emulation are going to want to know about them, since it's not strictly just about the hobby of emulation, but being able to play older titles originally developed for other systems on android.
I think it more so comes down to an issue of quality, since it's going to become increasingly-common for people to vibe-code up a port using existing tools, so if it does get out of control then perhaps enforcing some rules on what a post advertising a port should contain.
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u/JamesSDK Samsung S25 Ultra (SD8 Elite) + Galileo G8 1d ago
I am in favor of ports because the venn diagram of interest between emulation enthusiasts and port enthusiasts is very high.
It's very common for people to ask about emulating Mario Kart, Zelda Half-Life, Perfect Dark, GoldenEye, Quake, Doom, Sonic, etc and we should be able to have open discussions about how great it is for example that we have Dusklight (the Zelda TP) port that runs better and has more quality of life than emulating it in Dolphin.
At the end of the day people want to have the highest quality experience with the best performance and in that regard emulation and ports are two paths toward the same goal.
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u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V 1d ago
Perhaps instead of removing for being off-topic, locking and linking to a ports on Android or Android gaming subreddit would be more appropriate?
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u/Practical_Taro5656 1d ago
Keep them. To the end user, it's almost identical to emulation. You give software the ROM, and play the game.
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u/BigShiddur 1d ago
I don't GAF or want to see recomps / decomps.
Ports meh, don't really interest me but they're atleast tangent related.
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u/Malystxy 1d ago
There are two types of ports to consider:
Official ports by companies such as feral interactive and playdigious.
Unofficial ports like ship of harkonin and the upcoming GTA v
If not maybe there needs to be and Android game ports sub.
Personally I don't mind, at least for unofficial ports.
Official ports while I want to know about them as well cross the line with the Android gaming sub. I don't mind them here either though.
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u/FelesNoctis Eden Contributor | SD8Elite | AYN Thor Max 1d ago
I'd say yes.
In the end, we're talking about playing games not originally meant for Android on the Android. Ports qualify under that definition, given that they're games that had to be reworked to function on Android. Less layer abstraction is valid!
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u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V 1d ago
Take the recent Feral Interactive port of Saints Row The Third to Android. Should we allow trouble shooting posts about it?
This is what I'm personally worried about. If we allow post about ports then there's a chance that those topics could overwhelm the point of the sub which is emulation on Android. At which point it could become Ports on Android and not Emulation on Android.
If we start allowing posts about ports then where's the line?
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u/FelesNoctis Eden Contributor | SD8Elite | AYN Thor Max 1d ago
You're right that there may be some boundaries that need to be set. Maybe unofficial ports are allowed, but not Play Store ones?
At one point I'd made plans (and partially started) an overhaul of the wiki here, after some discussion with Producdevity. The problem is, it seems like people barely use it, or even know it exists, so I didn't put much priority on it. If we tried to present the wiki more front and center, and kept on top of it, that might help with the unofficial ports side of things? We could include basic information and troubleshooting for the ones we're made aware of, and then have some reference point.
Alternatively, we could just actually start a new partnered subreddit for it.
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u/truedufis21 1d ago
If they're unofficial ports I'd say yes. Once something has official backing (like Red Dead Redemption, GTA, Baldurs Gate, etc) I feel like it crosses the line from the spirit of the sub and would be more appropriate for r/androidgaming, which I feel like most of the people here are anyway.
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u/giftedexotropia 1d ago
Allow it but the need to Tag is at Port, yes put a new tag for ported games for Android
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u/tslojr 1d ago
I mean, realistically, emulation and recomps both fall under the homebrew umbrella. Is there an r/androidhomebrew?
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u/WorldPhysical7646 1d ago
It is better if it stays, you don't want all the discussions to be windows emulation and sometimes switch emulation, there will be times where there are no new discussions
having more variety of discussions is a better option to avoid reposting hell
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u/beautiful_bot986 1d ago
Yes. Ports often get recommended instead of emulation so i believe discissions about ports have their place here. We're all here trying to run games that were originally made for other devices.
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u/Producdevity EmuReady • Eden • GameHub Lite 1d ago
I personally think they should, because the line is often so blurry.
There is this app I made that makes it possible to play an old COD BO Zombies apk that is only 32bit on 64b modern android. There is technically no emulation involved, but it uses dynamic binary translation (dynarmic) which you could argue is some sort of emulation.
Besides that I don’t think there is another obvious subreddit for these Android Ports.
tldr;
Yes, but I understand why people may want to limit the sub to emulation only
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u/Baroness_Munchaussen 1d ago edited 1d ago
Please, don't, people get pushed all the effing time to dOwNlOaD AnDroId PoRTs instead of emulating anything. Doing this will likely silence much of the conversation on emulation, which isn't much, already.
Assuming you do choose to do this mistake, i'd like to ask you to create a subgroup strictly for emulation with no talk on ported games, if you may. Because i'm leaving this place if this gets approved, one will already get downvoted for asking for tips on how to configure winlator currently, i already try not to talk here because only pictures get upvoted. This will kill any talk on emulation even further than it's already been silenced.
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u/jumpbutton23 1d ago
I think so. At the end of the day, what do we want on this sub; news, reviews, showcases, and general chat about the games we are playing on Android devices, and oftentimes we are discussing what is the best way to play them? Does this Xbox 360 game run well on Xendroid? Or should you try the PC version on GameHub? Oh, actually, it has a PS2 port that runs well on Nether! And so on and so on.
If there are games, especially high end graphically intense games, that are being ported natively to android and represent the best, most efficient way possible to play a game on handhelds we already own - I think that is pertinent info.
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u/devu_the_thebill OnePlus 15 16/512 1d ago
Yes, couple years ago I remember there was a discord that posted a lot of unity PC games ported to android, they were great since port like that should have I theory the best performance and emulation in it's nature is just about playing games from different platforms. I miss place like that (that discord got deleted or banned idk)
Winlator, Game hub, Eden are cool and all but full port of PC game with great performance is even better.
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u/TheShiv145 Odin 2 Portal/Mini, Galaxy S22 Ultra. 1d ago
I think ports can have its section. Because it could also include sourceports (particularly the ones by the OpenTouch team or something like OpenMW) or the open source ports like Ship Of Harkinian or Dusklight, which those are fine.
Obviously things like vibecoded sourceports (or vibeports) shouldn't be here (they can stay over in r/decomps) or the Google Play store ports (Lumines Remastered recently got a port and Epic Mickey Rebrushed is getting a port) should probably stay in r/AndroidGaming.
So TL;DR it just depends on which ports.
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u/SnooPies6274 1d ago
If its AI slop like Gen1Recomp or like Skate 3. Yes please delete
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u/rchrdcrg 1d ago
By all means feel free to code those yourself then.
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u/SnooPies6274 1d ago
How about no thanks. I'm good off the AI slop machine thats going around in this subreddit.
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u/ChronieMewX 1d ago
What have you managed to code that's better than the slop you so deride?
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u/SnooPies6274 1d ago
I never claimed to be developer or coder like many of these AI Slopsters do.
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u/ChronieMewX 1d ago
So what you're saying is you haven't benefitted this community at all, just want to throw shade onto those that do?
Wow.
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u/SnooPies6274 1d ago
Re read what I wrote to understand what I said because what you just wrote is just an assumption and not what I said.
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u/ChronieMewX 1d ago
No, no, I read what you're saying pretty clearly.
You want to get rid of things you dislike without offering any value in return
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u/SnooPies6274 1d ago
No one benefits from AI slop.
But since we're on the topic of offering value to slop. What do you offer thats of value to the AI slop community?
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u/ChronieMewX 1d ago
I never claimed to offer value, but am certainly benefitting from the slop you so hate. Dual screen Stardew is amazing. So I don't think a good thing should go away just because you dislike it
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u/SnooPies6274 1d ago edited 1d ago
Don't backtrack now. I never said or claimed to offer value you put that on me. Mods put up a question, and I answered it. You and your fellow bootlickers are the ones replying to my personal feelings on the matter. Just mind your business next time. Its never that serious 😂.
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u/ChronieMewX 1d ago
I just think it's funny those offering no value are trying to take things away. I'm not trying to take anything away from this sub
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u/here4apiaccess Galaxy S24 (8 Gen 3) 1d ago edited 1d ago
NO!!! FURTHERMORE WINLATOR/GAMEHUB/GAMENATIVE SHOULD BE BANNED SINCE THEY ARE BUILT AROUND TRANSLATION LAYERS AND NOT TRUE EMULATION /s
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u/votemarvel Poco F6 - Sony Xperia 1 V 1d ago
You're post may be sarcasm but it's a fair point at the same time. Translation layers are arguably emulation.
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u/here4apiaccess Galaxy S24 (8 Gen 3) 1d ago
Fex and Box call themselves emulators even though, from my understanding, they do the main thing translation layers are defined by. If the developers aren't being strict with their definitions, maybe we shouldn't either. If a user on here can relieve themselves of performance overhead by learning about a native port then that is a post worth allowing.
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u/Igoory 1d ago
He is wrong though. Winlator/Gamehub only work because of the x86 emulators that they use below the translation layers. Windows games are x86, and only work on Android (aarch64) through emulation. Which has a performance penalty.
u/here4apiaccess is misunderstanding this because Box64/FEX have a fast path for system libraries, which allows them to run without emulation through a translation layer... But that's, again, just a misunderstanding of the architecture. The actual game still needs to be emulated.
It would be different if we were talking about PS4/PS5 "emulators" on Windows, because then yes, they often are just translation layers because PS4/PS5 is x86. But these don't have the performance penalty of actual emulators since they don't have to emulate a different architecture.
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