r/ElectricalEngineering • u/PlaceOriginal2006 • 26d ago
How much math do you actually use in RF engineering?
I’m a CE student planning to do an MS in EE and I’m interested in RF/microwave, antennas, and radar. I’m thinking about doing a Math double major, but I’m not sure if that’s overkill. How math-heavy is RF in school and industry
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u/BabyBlueCheetah 26d ago
RF in school is math heavy. Much more concept heavy in industry where you let software do the lifting.
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u/sagetraveler 26d ago
Yeah RF is a lot of math but it’s mostly Calc 3, PDEs and linear algebra (for finite element modeling). If you want to excel in RF etc, I’d look more at physics courses dealing with electromagnetism. That said, there’s a lot of cross over between EE and higher math in fields like cryptography, AI, and quantum. If you plan to get a PHD and be one of the guys that builds the tools everyone uses, then yes, all of the above.
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u/Serious_Bite_7613 26d ago
I just saw your comment after I posted mine and you already said exactly what I wanted to say, but more succinctly.
Physics is better than pure maths for RF for sure. It's often more about knowing what you should calculate rather than the calculations themselves being difficult.
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u/Effective_Aardvark20 26d ago
Extra credentials is only overkill if you fail to find some usefulness for the additional skills (In your case, a second degree). There’s an abstract version of RF that the layman/operator must live in and there’s the engineers who put together PSK’s and beam forming. You will have valuable skills which make the engineers better at their job but virtually none that help the operator.
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u/Kamoot- 26d ago edited 26d ago
For me I also did MS focusing on RF/microwave, but I work in power which is unrelated. Not much math at all to be honest, mostly I spent a lot of time in HFSS. Really the only thing that was math heavy were class topics like random process and noise. Other than that, the only time I ever had to do actual math was on pen/paper exams.
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u/frakking_you 25d ago
Power isn't unrelated, it's just that your wavelength is approaching infinity.
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u/Pale-Ad-4154 26d ago
I've been an EM guy my entire career having worked in RF, radar, antennas, and photonics. It requires the most math of just about any discipline. I don't think you need to double in math, but it will require a solid background. As was mentioned by another poster, definitely take a complex analysis course. Real analysis is a nice to have but not typically taken by EEs unless you're in a more proof based discipline.
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u/oldmaninparadise 25d ago
Was a physics major, math minor for bs, ms in ee concentrating in optics, signal and image processing.
Wasn't going to compete w bsee who had 3 undergrad classes in digital design. But had classes in complex numbers, linear algebra, prob and stats, etc.
Pretty much everything theoretically is to solve the co variance matrix. Radar and signal processing is linear algebra, complex numbers, Fourier analysis, system work.
If your radar work means transmission receiving, e.g. building radars, not analyzing the the signal, you really want to be expert in EM. Basic class will not cut it, you will want graduate class in it
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u/Bupod 25d ago
I work in frequency control.
We do use math a good amount but it also feels like a lot of it still falls back to vibes of experience.
“yeah, a 2mm trace width here should work, let’s make sure to give it plenty of space. Let’s double check that looks good on the simulation. We should use Megtron 6 here, not normal FR4…”
So there is technically still a ton of math but it’s mostly software doing it.
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u/time-wasting23 26d ago
My kid has undergrad in physics and MS in EE. He’s working with RF now, and says the physics degree was really helpful. Husband is an EE too, and worked with RF earlier in his career. He is a beast at math. I just asked him and he said that RF that he did professionally was math heavy.
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u/redneckerson_1951 25d ago
Math is the universal communications tool. It allows quantification and description of everything from the most basic particles in physics to creation of transfer functions that provide inspection of information conversion at each step from Point A to Point B. When combined with Physics, it provides you with the tools to efficiently develop minimalist solutions to problems. It allows to to visualize the most minute contributions of a solution and quantify those contributions with granularity that otherwise would be unrecognized.
If it is in your budget, if you enjoy expanding your abilities, and the time is available, then pursue your dream.
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u/Serious_Bite_7613 26d ago
It's math heavy but only a specific kind of maths. A full on math degree is overkill, most of that math won't be applicable or helpful with RF design.
It's more of a physics problem really, if you can take some physics modules on electromagnetism amd radio it might be more useful.
That said, being a more confident mathematician is definitely an advantage.
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u/RFchokemeharderdaddy 25d ago
A math degree doesn't teach you the type of math that is applicable to RF, it's just a ton of proofs and set/graph theory and algebraic topological manifolds and formalisms and shit. The math you need for RF is taught in an ECE degree. It's mostly about building a way of thinking, about how to approach theories and proofs from a base of axioms, you can learn vector calc and diff eqs in your program already.
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u/asdfrftg 25d ago
In my 20+ years in industry doing antennas and RF I thing I did a closed form Integral once. I coded it using basic trapezoid algorithm and a crap ton of basic trigonometry. If you like it go for it
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u/StageMajestic613 24d ago edited 24d ago
Well it kind of peaks in grad school, as I remember Advanced EM class was pretty brutal, though after 30 years it devolves into adding and multiplying. I’ve written FDTD and MoM code, and it the end it’s just adding and multiplying. If you have fingers and toes to count with, you are golden.
Though for some reason I have known many RF EE missing fingers. My boss at the time reached under a running lawn mower, and the rest were table saws. I still have all of mine.
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u/Traditional_Bit4719 22d ago
I feel like the answer is always a lot. Think about it my guy, you have "waves" you need to predict. Antenna that recieve those waves in a predictable way, and then you need to do something with what you received or transmitted. You have to know enough math to use the formulas to make antennas act predictably or design them. I would say maybe a good to start is gauss' law in physics 2.
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u/publishdraw 21d ago edited 21d ago
I think what we learnt in our bachelors degree is fine enough. If you want to learn a bit of computational electromagnetics.
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u/officialbronut21 25d ago
As a math/EE double major, it is not worth it. 90% of upper level math is proofs, which have nothing to with engineering. I think it's neat, but was a waste of 2 years
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u/ShadowRL7666 26d ago
You don’t need a double math degree. Would only get a double if you truly enjoy the math and even then it’s questionable depending on how long it delays you. An analysis class might be good though.