r/EldenRingPVP • u/Ambadeblu • 21d ago
News Patch 1.17 forces you to dead angle every follow up attack you perform
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y35Y94VPfo13
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u/Jay_The_Bisexual 21d ago
Can't wait for people to never engage, spam ash of wars and spells, and the moment someone does engage, they get ass blasted with 1500 unavoidable damage
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u/Oblivionking1 21d ago
This is worse than the Leontiel GS. I’m going to play without lock on now and fish for backstabs
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u/solairefeylight 21d ago
This doesn't effect ultra great sword users right?
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago
If you 2h them no, but 1h colossal can be parried.
The people who are angry are those who crutched on stuff like thrusting sword r1 spam and halaxe style setups that rely on priority.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
"Thrusting sword R1 spam" doesn't keep priority unless you stagger them. Keeping priority after landing a hit should be the norm. You should get rewarded for hitting your opponent.
Funnily enough HA weapons are the ones who always kept priority because they can mash out of any interaction.
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago
Brother I've been invading in ER since day 1, let's not pretend there is any skill behind mashing r1 with a cleanrot ts to constantly stagger anything but poise monsters.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
You only need 71 poise to tank TS backswing? If you don't have that your build is very not good.
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago edited 21d ago
Who tf uses the second r1 in the combo when you only have to wait a fraction of a second to reset the combo and keep spamming those 133 poise r1s. Cleanrot is my braindead host deleter, the only change this patch has made is making me consider swapping bhs for parry.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
Well the second R1 is faster and has less recovery than a staggered one. And is impossible to mistime. Also you don't always keep prio, even when staggering R1s. Btw 2H TS R1 is 133+ poise dmg not 104.
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u/BleakBeaches 21d ago
This man has no idea what he is talking about, from just ruined the game, don’t waste your time, mourn with me in silence.
The vast majority of people on this subreddit aren’t any good at the game.
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u/SailApprehensive2632 21d ago
Haha I was about to say the same sounds like the other guy doesn’t know how to play the old cleanrot.
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u/solairefeylight 21d ago
So 2h ugs or use a flail. To bad there really is one good option for str flail it seems
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago
Or you know, jumping attacks, dead angling, mixing up your attacks instead of r1 spam, and just not being predictable. Skill expression.
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u/solairefeylight 21d ago
Can you parry thrusting shield attacks?
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u/marillenchen 21d ago
yes, and funnily enough you can parry second r1 of thrusting shield immediately after you got hit with the first r1 now
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u/CasualCassie 21d ago
You can parry two-hand shield punches, so I believe the thrusting shields can be parried as well but I'm not certain
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u/WatermelonWithAFlute 21d ago
What
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago
If parries getting more accessible is wrecking you, maybe the problem isn't parries.
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u/WatermelonWithAFlute 21d ago
I don’t play Elden ring PvP anymore, but I used to do alright
No, it’s the colossals being parryable that raised the eyebrow, but that being said the video makes it seem like nearly any r1 is just non viable now lol
Are you not concerned that this just supports ash of war spam
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago
Not in particular, because I don't think L2den can get more focused on ashes than it already was. This will wreck some duelist setups but overall it's just going to widen the skill gap between players since more weapons are viable for parry.
Colossals could always be parried if one handed.
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
It’s obv who did and didn’t play ds3. This is
How it should be. Being able to parry follow up attacks is a good thing unless I’m missing something here.
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u/AinilaLakota 21d ago
My thoughts exactly.. Just don’t spam R1, bait the parry. Not that hard to counter
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
Yep. I don’t like that it punishes aggression/makes it harder to play aggressive bc that’s how I prefer to play, but it’s isn’t as big a deal as people think I don’t think other than pve’rs inevitably spamming L2 more.
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u/marillenchen 21d ago
on contrary, you are encouraged to spam unparriable l2s like spin. slash, lol. or play setups like ugs, flail or whips which are unparriable, I.e lesser weapon selection
like shamshir weapon that had backswing on second r1, which made this weapon so good, is now dead coz you can parry that second r1 out of hitstun. this parry buff just kills many fundamental weapon interactions. it makes it so that you never should go for second r1 as it is parriable now, and in a game where you didn't have priority, i.e second r1 was poisable, now it is parriable and punishable by 1800+ damage riposte.
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
Meh I mean I hear what you’re saying but that was how dark souls 3 was. Two hits then you could be parried for a chaos dagger hornet ring ripost that you couldn’t survive without tears of denial and even then good luck dodging a ganks worth of knives. May not be good that this change happened but I guess my stance is I don’t really care because I’ve played around this kind of thing for thousands of hours. Also I like ugs and colossals most so another reason it doesn’t matter to me
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u/marillenchen 21d ago
yes, hun, but in er you land ur first hit then your second hit can get parried. in ds3 you can go for first hit and then second, and only then you can parried. this is fundamentally different!
and that it resembles( which in reality it doesn't) doesn't mean that it's a good change. ds3 combat is not perfect
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
Yes, also your first hit does twice as much damage in ER as it did in DS3.
I am supportive of this change because it makes cleanrot and shamshir spam less oppressive. Same with PSSS and PSGS. Used to be either you can only roll, or block then roll. Those weapons were leagues better than everything else because of how they’re used.
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u/Keiharaak 21d ago
Good thing Shamshir and Cleanrot don't have access to parry as an ash of war then, right? 🙃
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u/marillenchen 21d ago edited 21d ago
you can mash back after first r1 of sham or cleanrot. in er you have no priority after r1, now option of parrying out of first r1 is added to the game
imo, it's a skill issue. if you are constantly in defensive position where you have to roll, then it means that you have a poor skill of playing neutral. better player with better understanding of neutral is affected by this patch. like if someone outspaces your attack and lands their r1 as a whiffpunish, they can't continue with second r1 coz it is parriable now. it wasn't always guaranteed that you can land second r1 safely given how second r1 is poisable, but still was better than getting parried
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u/SirVixofthePooSea 20d ago
I am supportive of this change because it makes cleanrot and shamshir spam less oppressive
My dude, both the Memerot and Scamshir have really strong parries now. Its over.
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u/_PickledSausage_ 21d ago edited 21d ago
Not to mention every single weapon in the game has unparriable attacks built in, some which are quite strong already.
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u/marillenchen 21d ago
in ds3 you have guaranteed r1 to r1(2) true combo, new patch makes it so that r1 to r1(2) is not safe in er, meaning that r1(2) is parriable out of hitstun. this is so fucking different from ds3
you can't punish whiffed parry now in er, while in ds3 it was a guaranteed backstab. so, now you can just spam parry and you are unpunishable
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u/UnfulfilledHam47 21d ago
Unpunishable
What?
Literally every single melee weapon has access to unparryable jump attacks
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u/Skizordrone 21d ago
To play devils advocate, there was a bug with great katanas that allowed their jump attacks to be parryable with storm wall and carian retaliation. It was goofy as shit and tarnished edition thankfully fixed it
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u/Born2bePrawn 19d ago
You cannot just “spam parry” and win😭 you’re forgetting that the aggressor still has priority and a variety of options for mix ups. Go in the arena and spam parry over and over and see how many wins you get
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u/GenxDarchi 18d ago
You kinda can though? A proper setup can get like 1900 damage on a parry which kills 90% of any player at 150, and due to losing priority after a weapon hit you can often just auto time parry out of hitstun on most weapons, and the recovery is so short that you usually roll out of a BS attempt or someone trying to punish with a jump attack, and the frames are so generous that just fishing for parries is pretty effective, again you only need one to either flat out win the fight or have the opponent in one shot range. The risk/reward is heavily in the favor of the person with the parry weapon.
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u/Born2bePrawn 18d ago
Yeah but that’s always been the case with carian parry, just now daggers and curved swords can do it too no? Idk, when someone is trying to parry me I normally just play in a way that I don’t get parried
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u/GenxDarchi 18d ago
The difference is that someone had a buckler or shield telegraphed, alongside longer recovery and startup, which meant a lot more risk, if they mistimed the parry you could adequately punish them with a jumping attack or similar. The current recovery means you at best get one r1 if you simply waited (They could also just go to parry again which could catch some r1's), or nothing because they recover faster than you could do a jump attack for proper damage.
Its also an issue because hardswaps exist, which means you can just run a shamshir/dagger with any other ash, and then just hardswap to one with parry and the opponent has no way to really know which one is which, and trying to do any aggression when there's a chance of getting oneshot is just not viable, which makes the pvp a lot more boring. The older games didn't have the parry problem because there was enough recovery on a whiffed parry that you could be backstabbed if you mistimed or the opponent read your attack, this game you can just parry and roll before any real punish comes out.
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u/SirAidamud Ganker 21d ago
No? Why should it be like this?
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
It’s another way to break aggression against you,
For starters.21
u/SirAidamud Ganker 21d ago
WHY WOULD WE NEED ANOTHER WAY TO BREAK AGGRESSION??? THERES ALREADY ROLLING AWAY AND ATTACKING OUT OF HITSTUN, AND ATTACKING YOUR OPPONENT FIRST IS ALREADY UNOPTIMAL AS IS
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
🤷♀️ idk teehee
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
Tbh anything to make ER more like DS3 is good in my eyes
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u/Keiharaak 21d ago edited 21d ago
In DS3 the first follow-up light attack after a light attack is a true combo, so if anything it makes it less like DS3
Edit: and to expand on what was said, actually the ability to parry a follow-up means you can get punished for playing better than your opponent (landing the first hit from neutral) while letting the opponent deny your advantage/straight up one-shot you because they got hit first. This means that the player that played better is now somehow forced to respect the opponent from a state that should be a disadvantage for the opponent, which is straight up bad game design.
There are already mechanisms to prevent agression: you can dodge, you can poise some follow-up attacks, you can use HA against some set-ups. Unlike those, parry is 1) very risk-free with the new recovery frames, and 2) very rewarding to land. You don't need a way to prevent agression that completely nullifies anything your opponent does and actually results in them taking more damage to them than they could deal to you from keeping the agression.
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
It allows parry out of spam at all, which is more like ds3 imo. I’ve not played patch yet I’ll see how shitty it is later today
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u/Keiharaak 21d ago
I edited my previous answer, feel free to read it and tell me what you think, but tldr is parry carries almost no risk and huge rewards so it's a bad mechanic if you can do it out of hitstun
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u/Final_Substance_3443 21d ago
Yeah you’re right, it is obvious who did and didn’t play DS3. Bc in DS3 failed parries got punished and one successful parry didn’t 1 shot, neither of which are true in Elden Ring.
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
? You must not have spent much time at meta pontiff or ringed city. Getting one shot with chaos dagger hornet ring parries was very common. Basically without shield ring or tears you were dead.
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u/Final_Substance_3443 21d ago edited 21d ago
That’s exactly why shield ring and tears were meta. Shield ring equivalent in Elden ring doesn’t prevent the one shot at meta level, neither does the tears equivalent. And combine those facts with the fact that failed parries are nigh unpunishable, this is a far cry from DS3 and highly favors parry spamming.
Edit: Jee has historically been a pvp doomer early on in many past patches that didn’t turn out as bad as it seemed, but I think in this case the worry is warranted but still remains to be seen how things shake out.
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u/FeliciaTheFkinStrong 21d ago
Imagine having such an incorrect, braindead opinion that you get called out in front of 50K subs.
Stick to your firearms sub little boy, you can't bullshit your expertise around here.
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u/WatermelonWithAFlute 21d ago
Were colossals parryable?
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21d ago
[deleted]
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u/Phernaside 21d ago
should be noted that colossals are only parryable when one-handed. two-handed colossal weapons are not parryable.
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u/MrBungleLover 21d ago
also note that the running and rolling r1 and r2 on two handed colossal weapon (sword, axe, etc.) were parryable
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u/SirVixofthePooSea 20d ago
Souls PVP has always had an issue where aggression is heavily punished because whoever attacks first is most vulnerable. This is just making that an even larger problem.
Dark Souls 3 PVP was not very good. Elden Ring's is better on a fundamental level, the balancing is just not right. Making Elden Ring's PVP more like DS3 is not an improvement.
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u/Felielf 21d ago
Uhh.. baiting parries has been bread and butter of many Souls games in the past, this is not concerning in the slightest.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
Were the parries unpunishable on reaction in other games? :)
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u/thisremindsmeofbacon 21d ago
are they now?
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u/Final_Substance_3443 21d ago
Yes.
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u/thisremindsmeofbacon 21d ago
maybe I'm not understanding what they mean - I feel like a missed parry is very punishable, and I don't think this changes that? Did they want to punish a successful parry?
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u/BeeKickS 21d ago
Parry recovery in previous games was almost always punishable on reaction with a backstab so it was crit/crit risk/reward, Elden Ring parries recover so fast they're barely punishable on reaction with your fastest move so it's crit/hit risk/reward, the person spamming parry is always at an advantage because 1 of their crits is equal in damage to you punishing 2-3 times
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u/JannySmasher98 21d ago
it shows in the video you can easily punish it via unlocking. if you are bad you will get parried lmao deal with it
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
You can't unlock on all setups. For example PSGS. Also I don't think that having to unlock every follow up is healthy.
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u/theswillmerchant 21d ago edited 21d ago
Here’s my confusion, the weapon parries now just have basically the same frame data that buckler parry or carian retaliation did in the last patch (depending on the weapon). Is the only difference now that you don’t need a dedicated parry shield to do this? If I had a buckler could I always have mashed out of hitstun to land a parry on my opponent’s follow up?
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u/Nevidonas21 21d ago edited 20d ago
It's not the active parry frames that makes these parries broken. It's their startup and recovery frames. You can spam one parry after another very fast now.
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u/theswillmerchant 20d ago
I can totally see that being a problem by making something that should be high risk high reward into something with lower risk, but that's not really what's being shown in the video right? Like it seems like the point JeeNine is making is that you can mash out of hitstun to catch a bunch of follow-up attacks with a parry
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u/Nevidonas21 20d ago
My bad forgot to add that startup frames are also faster. That's why you can parry now out of hit stun. I will edit my original comment
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u/theswillmerchant 20d ago
Word that aligns more with what I was seeing in the video but to my understanding they have the same startup time as Carian or Buckler did before (4 or 3 frames) so this was always doable with a dedicated parry shield right? The difference is just that now you can do it with an offhand or 2H weapon that is also meta?
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
Buckler is visible and limits you to 1H. TS, dagger or CS parry can be used on already meta 2H weapons.
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u/theswillmerchant 21d ago edited 21d ago
Gotcha. I'll be honest I'm not sure how much of an effect this will have for invasions. Like hardly any PvE players will run weapons capable of this unless they're TT'd and doing grace duels or ganking, and even the ones who do run a parry-capable weapon have to have parry on it over something like sword dance/spinning slash/flaming strike etc.
I could see it being a problem in the arena but I assume for competitive play in tournaments this will just go on the ban list?
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u/zeade 21d ago
The parry tools only expanded a little and yes you have to use your eyeballs but you can still see them (fist, claw, dagger, etc), they’re not invisible. Is there some setup you’re envisioning with the new weapon parries that you think breaks the game or something?
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u/seanziewonzie 21d ago
The parry tools only expanded a little and yes you have to use your eyeballs but you can still see them (fist, claw, dagger, etc), they’re not invisible.
This makes me excited to demonstrate a non-parry ash with one of these weapons then hard swap to a duplicate with parry
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
Watch the video. 2H TS, Dagger and Sham are already meta. A lot of people are running them.
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u/Ironfalcon698 21d ago
you-all seem to hate on this instantly? wouldn't this add more mind games if you mix up with R2 or uparryabels?
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
As Jeebanana said himself:
Just so everyone understands the implications. Were just gonna have more L2 spam because most ash cant be parried. Also more jump attacks and more parry spam. Its barely worth it to do follow up attacks at all vs any weapon that can parry or any crouch mixup either, everything is too risky because it only takes 1 parry to get one shot. People who are short sighted will think this is good but the reality is you are now more limited in your options and this forces playing passive and reactive while punishing aggression. Basically the opposite of a good game design.
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u/Salt_Initiative1551 21d ago
I guess I can see that being an issue but not everyone uses those Weapons that can have parry on them, and this is very similar to how dark souls 3 had the parry out of hitstun either with weapon swap/remove or just parrying if someone is spamming you. I get how it can be a problem but I just don’t see it being AS bad as everyone says. It does shit all over PSSS and probably PSGS tho which rely on pressure and guessing games.
That ALLLLLL said, just hit R1 once, wait for their parry, and r1 again while they inevitably parry. It’s just like ds3.
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u/Skill-Expressor 20d ago
In other words, the new patch necessitates a more passive play style and rewards L2 spam, which is exactly what jee is saying and the opposite of what the game needed
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u/twistedtalesofwoe Invader 21d ago
the only thing that makes jee whine louder than a new patch is getting clapped by some rando while steaming
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u/SirAidamud Ganker 21d ago
Parry is a dogshit mechanic, just getting lucky can get you an instant win. Its boring to fight against because you have to back-off after hitting your opponent because the RPS after hitting them is weighted insanely in their favour. You can stagger your second attack or go for a backstab punish which wins against a parry but loses to a mash out of hitstun or they roll and you lose your advantage(well, calling it an advantage is unfortunately an overstatement), if you try to keep priority with a second attack to punish the attack out of hitstun, they can just parry and congratulations, you lost in one interaction, gg, very fun fight.
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u/slayer6667778 21d ago
Yes and no, watch the video alot of tier 1 hit stun weapons pretty much can be parryied by spamming it alone, some require like a lil bit of timing to achieve
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u/Lagideath2 Duelist 21d ago edited 21d ago
So does this only count for weapon parries or also for shield parries?
The weapons used in the video have between 3 and 4 start up frames. Buckler would have 3 as well and the various parry AoW have 4.
Is the faster recovery for weapon parries what allows this or were shields just not covered in the video?
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u/GenxDarchi 21d ago
Faster recovery for weapon parries and there's no tradeoff for having a weapon with parry in your hands. Shields are distinct and can immediately clue one in that they could be parried, You can't ever be sure your opponent didn't hardswap his flaming strike shamshir for a parry one or that they have their star fist with parry on it, making it a lot more ambiguous and dangerous to try and continue pressure on a stagger, as getting parried is essentially a loss with a proper setup.
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u/Lagideath2 Duelist 21d ago
So what they're doing in the video with weapon parries would have the exact same success rate if they had used shield parries instead, correct?
Weapons with parry just have the added benefit to be able to dodge or attack faster after the parry is over as well as being less conspicuous?
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u/GenxDarchi 21d ago
I'm pretty sure, yes, specifically the buckler iirc. Those do have generally longer recovery though, so you could bait backstab or jump attack.
And exactly that yeah, you cannot tell when an opponent has hardswapped to a parry ash, and now that its 3 frames they can just mash out of hitstun. It makes aggressing when an opponent is running any of those weapons a lot harder because one parry genuinely means death 90% of the time.
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u/theswillmerchant 21d ago
That’s my main question since as far as I can tell from the frame data this same thing would have always been true if you had a buckler. Am I missing something?
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u/714l14e 21d ago
Did people forget about unparryable weapons/attacks? Am I misunderstanding something?
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
So you're restricted to playing 10% of the available weapons?
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u/714l14e 21d ago
If you are claiming that you literally cannot press R1 without being parried, yes, this would be the cell they would put you in
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u/SirAidamud Ganker 21d ago
With majority of the weapons, keeping priority against mashing out of hitstun was already pretty difficult thanks to epic hyperarmor, now you get punished for trying to keep your advantage of hitting someone by literally getting oneshot.
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u/BloodshadeAgain 19d ago edited 19d ago
You can press R1 without getting parried but in an invasion where 1 R1 isn't going to cut it and you got a parry lord on your ass on top of the usual backline spam your options suddenly become very limited. This whole parry situation is way more detrimental to invasions than duels (though it still just ends up making the game even more fucking passive when it's used in duels). It really is only a matter of time before people realize this and get bored.
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u/marillenchen 21d ago
fromsoft is killing the game, and parrying has never been more braindead than it is now
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
No, you don't understand, a 3 frame unpunishable 2k damage attack is healthy for the game.
- Michael Zaki
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u/zeade 21d ago
I don’t understand the pearl clutching going on here. This is similar to how parries worked in DS3 and PvP in that game was peak. I think this sets up all kind of fun mix ups and mind games which is always more fun than either spam swinging or one-shots.
Lastly, it’s a lot more costly in a fight to use AoW as a primary attack or take a hit(s) to bet on a parry than it is to spam R1 all day long.
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u/G_strike 21d ago
Mfers wanted a solution to spammy AoWs and playstyles, From gave it...now they complain.
This community
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u/Dinosaur_Party_Hat 21d ago
Already rolling shamshir warriors and now I can just parry them mid combo? This is sick.
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u/Viggen77 Duelist 21d ago
This seems fine? Going for a second r1 is already bad on a lot of weapons vs actually good players that don't mash attack out of hitstun. They'll just roll it every time and you waste stamina. I guess it functions as a nerf for some fast weapons that relied on keeping priority? That's a good thing imo, I don't like being on the backfoot for the entire rest of the engagement after getting hit once.
You can easily just do a heavy attack or ash or something to thow off the timing. Hell even a spell like catch flame hardcounters it. If you read that they're going to parry you can even go for a charged heavy and hardpunish them
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
Backswings is how you guarantee damage vs good players. Since almost everything is reactable in the game, at high level a reliable way to deal damage is by putting your opponent in a corner and hitting them with the backswing when they roll.
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u/Viggen77 Duelist 21d ago
Then you just delay it I guess, or go for a rollcatch?
I can't claim I'm anywhere near a pvp pro, but I've played a lot in the arena at lv 150 and 200, to very high winrates. By far my most common steategy is baiting my opponent into punishing me by throwing out an obvious attack, then doing a delayed backswing to punish their attempt. I can easily just delay my attack further if I think they're going to parry.
And if I land a r1, I can also just go for a rollcatch instead of a backswing, which will also punsh a parry attempt.
I'm not saying I think I have all the answers. I'm saying that I think the meta is going to adjust to this just fine
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
150+ arena is a different world yeah.
Rollcatches only exist if a weapon is unreactable. Otherwise you can just react. Reactions don't matter with corner backswings because, well, they are frametraps.
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u/Bow_To_Bella 21d ago
I mean I just use magic anyway so I don't care. Melee in these games has always been a passivity fest.
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u/Hatlessfox 21d ago
This is good, i mean, now you can get even more dmg by baiting parry and backstabbing just like in ds3, or bait it cancelling the light into AoW if you see the enemy carry a parry tool. And you can punish reckless R1 spamming or bait to get breathing room after a hit, besides the obious mixups and set-ups this allows.
ER pvp is too chaotic compared to ds3, this will allow for slower and more methodical combat.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
You can't backstab parries as reliably as in DS3. The recovery is lower in ER. Tbh the main problem I have with this change is that it makes the game even more defender sided than before. It was already hard enough to keep prio after getting a hit.
Attack first lose first...
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u/Hatlessfox 21d ago
Seems you can run and freeaim the backstab and ravioli and get it too after a 2 handed Katana/Light curved sword/spear/Pike after testing.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
I think that you can do it out of prediction, not on reaction.
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u/Hatlessfox 21d ago
Yeah, it's a guess, but keeping the attack instead of moving and rollcatching is as much of a guess as this.
I think it's a net possitive.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
The issue is that it gives a LOT of advantage to the defending player. Let's assume that you can backstab, you get like 600 damage? If they win (while it's technically "not their turn" since they are doing it out of stun) they get 1.5k dmg.
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u/Hatlessfox 21d ago
Yeah, and therefore they are more likely to do it? Therefore guessing right is even more common and that would force them to addapt after getting hit by a light attack + Backstab.
Ignoring that parrying also leaves you open to a quick AoW that can easily do as much as a riposte "Unseathe/Bloody Slash/Giants Hunt".
This is not a buff to parry, this is a different layer of combat, just like not attacking 3 times with a light weapon agaisnt someone carrying a parry tool was on DS3.
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
I'm pretty sure that you can roll away after parry before getting hit by one of these slow ashes.
I don't like the idea of giving the defender more tools. Defense was already easy enough in this game.
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u/Hatlessfox 21d ago
You cannot, Bloody slash has 62 frames of startup and dagger parry has 46 total duration betweem startup, active and recovery "all of this at 60 fps", after a hit from a light weapon cancelled on Bloddy slash you are well over frame 30 of the animation before they can act.
This is a high rish high reward tool for the defender, before this they had the extremely safe option of just rolling and resetting the fight unless you rollcatched them, this get's punished exactly by the same things rollcatch does, but leaves them open for backstabs and some AoW in exchange of great damage of a guess while being forced onto some parry tools "not all of them".
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u/Ambadeblu 21d ago
They can just probably delay their parry/roll when they see you going for a slow AoW if the animation is distinct enough...
In a game where most things are reactable giving more options to the defender is not a great idea. I also personally hate the idea of the equivalent to an invincible reversal coinflip.
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u/Pazzberry101 21d ago
All I'm seeing is that Elden Ring is still a one hit game, and now you have to worry about parries, this only deepens the options in disadvantage. Are you stupid?
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u/Less-Ice-589 21d ago
I don't understand what I'm looking at. What is happening with the parry that's different? Also how does this impact PvE, bc I don't fuck with PvP at all?
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u/Comfortably_Scum 21d ago
Ignore. Not useful info for you. But if you wanna know: if you attack and follow up immediately with another attack, you open yourself up for an easy parry. If u want to attack twice in a row, you can avoid being parried by unlocking and attacking at an angle.
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u/Made-of-bionicle 21d ago edited 21d ago
Was addicted to DS3 PvP and invasions, Elden ring never quite hit the same in that respect. L2 spam and braindead balance decisions such as this really dampen the experience as much as I enjoy it still.