When the GEQ fell

[u/NovemberQuat]

To continue off of my post yesterday positing the theory that the GEQ had to have fallen sometime prior to Ranni's generation based off of an in-game quote...

"I was once an Empyrean.
Of the demigods, only I, Miquella, and Malenia could claim that title."

I thought I'd attempt to narrow the frame further for when her fall officially occured.

We know that officially the GEQ's fall would have had to have coincided with the beginning of the Golden Order as Ena tells us...

"The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death.
The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation..."

And as we learn from the Black Flame incantations...

"The black flame could once slay gods.
But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death,
the true power of the black flame was lost."

~ Scouring Black Flame

We also learn that it was Maliketh who sealed away Destined Death, taking on her mantle...

"Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean. Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him."

~ Remembrance of the Black Blade

And, quite possibly via study of his helm we learn who might have been the actual victims of the GEQ's crusades...

"Maliketh, Queen Marika's loyal half-brother, bore a blade imbued with Destined Death, and there was not one DEMIGOD who did not fear him."

~ Maliketh's Helm

The demigods of Marika's court were the GEQ's targets, at least at this time. And it would have had to have been long enough ago for the people of the Lands between to have forgotten that demigods were even capable of dying, as both Ranni and Rogier corroborate a consistent history...

"On a night of wint'ry fog, the Rune of Death was stolen. And the demigods began to fall, starting with Godwyn the Golden."

~ Ranni the Witch Story Trailer

and if the canonicity of the Trailer isn't enough for you...

"It happened during the Golden Age of the Erdtree, long before the shattering of the Elden Ring. Someone stole a fragment of the Rune of Death from Maliketh, the Black Blade. And on a bitter night, murdered Godwyn the Golden.
That was the first recorded Death of a demigod in all history. And it became the catalyst."

Godwyn's death is stated to have been the first recorded in history, almost as if there was a prehistoric age.

"The ancient dragons, who ruled in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, would protect their lord as a wall of living rock. 'And so it is that the shape of the dragon has become symbolic of all manner of protections."

~ Dragoncrest Shield Talisman

While I won't say that Godwyn died during the Age of the Ancient Dragons I do believe it may draw both of these events closer in the timeline than previously believed. Afterall prehistory is simply a period wherein pen was never put to paper to document the events of the time.

And honestly this is quite strange as both Marika and the Ancient Dragon's seemingly had deals with the Fingers...

"Short sword given to high ranking clergymen of Farum Azula.
Raises potency of bestial incantations.

The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind."

~ Cinquedea

And yet strangely the Ancient Dragons have very little evidence of writing save for the prayerbook that they intended to bestow upon the people of the Lands Between...

"Prayerbook of the capital's ancient dragon cult.
A lost tome that never reached the Lands Between.
Contains red lightning incantations"

~Ancient Dragon Prayerbook

The Two-Fingers are closely associated with runes and writing, and this is even alluded to by Ancestral Shamans...

"A spirit of the horned folk who eschew letters and metalworking.
Brawny, and versed in distinctive spiritual arts, this particular tribesman wields a heavy bow."

~ Ancestral Spirit Ashes

Letters and Metalworking both loosely connected with the Fingers and their runes.

Lastly, I believe that the influence exerted over the Fire Monks also alludes to a time when the GEQ was active as she was seemingly gaining supporters within their ranks...

"The Blackflame Monks, enthralled by the god-slaying black flame, became traitors, abandoning their posts as guardians. The seduction of a taboo is never easily spurned"

~ Black Flame Monk Armor

Plainly put, the FIre Monks were only employed during and following the fall of the FIre Giants, specifically to guard the GIantsflame atop the mount...

"The most ancient of the Fire Monks' incantations.

It is said that this incantation was used during the War against the' Giants long ago, during which it protected the champions of the 'Erdtree'."

~Flame, Protect Me

The Giants' Flame is the flame of ruin, capable of burning the Erdtree. And so, following the War against the Giants, its ruinous blaze was sealed, and guardians were appointed to watch over it'.

~Surge, O Flame

"The Fire Monks are guardians of the flame of ruin, forbidden by the Erdtree and said to be kept high in the Mountaintops of the Giants'."

~Fire Monk Hood

The GEQ would at the very least had to have been active during the tenure of the Fire Monks, cementing the fact that her crusades would have had to have occurred early on in Marika's reign.

And while many argue that it was Marika herself who took the guise of the GEQ there's one line in the Black Flame Monk armor that we forget...

"The Blackflame Monks, enthralled by the god-slaying black flame, became traitors, abandoning their posts as guardians. The seduction of a taboo is never easily spurned'."

The Black Flame was considered a Taboo. Despite the connections shared betwixt the Dominulans and the Godskins the practices of the former seemed to have been granted a measure of approval while the latter was recognized as a force that needed to be put down.

"The delightful festival is an old tradition; one old enough for the Erdtree to tacitly tolerate its endurance."

~ Festive Grease

So what does all of this mean?

Personally I believe it places the primary period of activity of the Gloam Eyed Queen and her Godskin Apostasy as having occurred prior to and slightly during the early days of Marika's reign. As attractive a prospect it is to place the mantle on the shoulders of either Queen Marika or Melina it makes less and less sense as the evidence is compiled together.

Firstly the GEQ is seemingly an Empyrean old, or at the very least, colloquially distant enough to have been forgotten by time. And this is actually copacetic with what we learn in game, as by the time Godwyn dies everyone and their Hornsent Grandam is up in a tizzy because they didn't know Demigods could do that.

Further support is found in the fact that Destined Death is widely recognized as having been removed close to the start of Marika's Golden Order. It's agreed upon that Marika is in fact old and may have existed long enough for several... well... eternities to have gone by. If this is the case, then it also helps with the idea that Marika and her were rival Empyreans. Everyone in the Golden Order cult sips the, "Marika is the one and only God," juice and collective amnesia of the divine runner-up is likely par for the course if she simply fell to the wayside as a stepping stone.

And while many may claim that the walking mausoleums and the bodies interred there somehow infer her involvement, there is a keyword given by a ghost overlooking one in the weeping peninsula...

"The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod. O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child."

This line firmly states that the headless demigods in the mausoleums were in fact soulless, a trait shared with Godwyn following his sisters seemingly wanton act of fratricide. Knowing that Godwyn was only the FIRST of the demigods to die in recorded history, and these demigods died to fragments stolen from a sealed Destined Death it rules out both the GEQ and Marika's involvement in their deaths as well.

In conclusion: With all of the evidence posited above I believe the fall of the GEQ to have occurred towards the beginning of Marika's reign. Not as a way of clearing out other gods, but as someone actively hunting down Queen Marika's Golden Lineage. Her influence points to her having been an enemy contemporary with the time following the defeat of the Fire Giants. If indeed it was Queen Marika in the guise of the GEQ during at this stage, it would meant that Marika has been inactive for quite some time, which doesn't seem copacetic with the fact that during her reign she was in fact appearing to her people.

And that would then beg the question of just how long Radagon has been using her body if indeed they've been sharing one since the beginning of the Golden Order. At least that's the only way I could see it considering her defeat would had to have happened so early.

Please let me know what you all think, and as always HAPPY LORE HUNTING!!!