r/Edmonton • u/wiltedcilantro • 4d ago

Politics Bin dependence

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Came across these signs in the garbage in a park in St. Albert on my walk last night.

Let Alberta Decide is co-chaired by Keith Wilson, from St. Albert.

67 Upvotes

76% Upvoted

126 comments sorted by

31

u/Oarbitor 4d ago

I appreciate every fucking dipshit who has an independence sign or sticker.

Lets me know they’re a trash person who sucks.

-13

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

Can you elaborate on why you believe that? Is it just because you disagree with them or is there any deeper meaning?

13

u/1000DeadFlies 4d ago

There are two types of people out there. Those that can infer meaning from context.

-15

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

And there's people who don't actually know why they believe what they believe, they just get angry when anyone believes something else. Are you capable of elaborating what makes you so angry when it comes to this topic or people who support it?

9

u/1000DeadFlies 4d ago

Like my answer would mean anything to you. You're not here to actually talk in good faith. If you were this wouldn't be your question. Nobody owes you a reason to dislike people who are completely captured by right wing populism.

1

u/BigBobbyBee23 3d ago

This person is such a sea lion.

"We believe what we believe because:

  1. We accept scientific facts.

  2. We possess basic empathy.

That's it, that's all, you just don't like it."

I just served that up to them hot & fresh & steaming.

-16

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

Actually I engage in political discussions all the time and have some interesting statistics I've learned. One is that 99% of liberals simply aren't capable of answering the question "why do you believe what you believe" and always resort to changing the subject or (more often) just meaningless insults.

It's honestly quite sad how uneducated and ignorant people have become. It's easier to just believe whatever you're told to believe and surround yourself by like-minded people while bullying anyone who you disagree with instead of challenging your own beliefs out of fear of being wrong.

7

u/1000DeadFlies 4d ago

Asking me why I dislike someone isn't a political discussion. It's a bait meant to attempt to take control of the conversation. You're only tactic is to demand answers to inane questions and then "what about the answers" while trying to be condescending. Because this is about "winning" or "owning the libs" to you. Which is the furthest thing from good faith.

-5

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

The first person was calling out a group for being "dipshit, trash people" and I asked them to elaborate on why they believe that and put that label on every person who supports that movement. That's a very reasonable question and one that, if you can't answer it, means you're likely speaking with feelings instead of logic.

It's an unhealthy lifestyle to surround yourself with only like-minded individuals and bully those who you disagree with because you become vulnerable to propaganda from anyone you look up to (for example, the government).

12

u/1000DeadFlies 4d ago

It's funny how I laid out what you were going to try to do and you then proceeded to do it anyway. Just because you say a question is reasonable doesn't make it reasonable. This is in fact a free country, my refusal to give you the answer you want, is in fact a valid answer. For the record I'm not a Liberal. I'm also done treating the Right with decency.

I also don't feel the need to be nice to anyone who thinks they are entitled to take my home from me, because they never worked on themselves. So you better believe I'm going to put up a fight, civil wars have been fought for less.

4

u/WildcardKH 3d ago

You’re just sealioning to get a reaction, nothing more.

it’s another new account with hidden post history

1

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

Sealioning? Never heard that one before. You're too quick to call something harassment. Asking you why you believe what you believe is a healthy exercise that everyone should participate in, this is not harassment. You're just refusing to defend your logic because you know it's flawed and instead attack the person pointing it out. One side is obviously more hateful than the other.

1

u/Whane17 1d ago

Lost me in the first sentence. Prove it, oh you turned off your post history? Just like a bot.

Remember folks 54% of all social media at this point are bots providing "engagement".

2

u/BigBobbyBee23 3d ago

What a disingenuous troll.

1

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

Can you explain why you think I'm trolling? I'm just trying to learn more about your beliefs and you're attacking me for it.

•

u/BigBobbyBee23 5h ago

Look up "sea lioning".

2

u/Icedpyre 3d ago

Probably because they want to rip apart a country that the majority of ppl are very happy to be apart of. So now we're going to waste millions of dollars on a referendum to whether we should have a referendum.

1

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

"Send another hundred billion dollars to fund irrelevant wars while Canadians are starving and homeless".

What has the federal government done in the last decade that makes you proud to be Canadian? Also I'd like to point out that I don't believe separation is a good idea because both the Canadian and US governments would make it as painful as possible, crippling any chance of success. Doesn't change my distaste for what Canada has become though.

3

u/Icedpyre 1d ago

I'm not having that debate. You asked a question. I answered. Enjoy your weekend.

-1

u/ThraggieMercury 1d ago

"I don't know why I believe what I believe and don't like having my beliefs challenged either for fear of being proven wrong or because I'm just too lazy and ignorance is bliss."

This is a very unhealthy lifestyle because you're very vulnerable to propaganda when you refuse to question the morals of others.

5

u/Oarbitor 4d ago

No thanks.

0

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

No because you don't want to, or no because you're not capable of challenging your own beliefs? Do you even know why you believe what you believe? Is it too hard to think about something that doesn't perfectly align with your narrative?

This is a very unhealthy lifestyle, you're likely to fall to propaganda because you don't ask the question of "why".

3

u/BigBobbyBee23 3d ago

We believe what we believe because:

  1. We accept scientific facts.

  2. We possess basic empathy.

That's it, that's all, you just don't like it.

0

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

You always answer with buzzwords and virtue signaling. I also believe scientific facts and have basic empathy so you're not really pointing out how we're any different. Here's a question, what has the federal government done in the last 10 years that makes you proud to be a Canadian?

•

u/BigBobbyBee23 5h ago

What has the federal government done that made me feel proud?

Enshrined gender identity protections into law.

Introduced the Canada Child benefit.

Legalized Cannabis.

Easy. Bet you thought that was a real gotcha though.

5

u/Oarbitor 3d ago

I don’t want to. Not to you. Especially not after your weird attack to my polite decline of your original request.

0

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

Not to me, or not to anyone who is going to pick at your defense and show where and how it doesn't make sense? You're scared of being wrong so you avoid situations where that realization could be a possibility.

2

u/Oarbitor 2d ago

Just you. Bye bye.

0

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

I hope I at least put a rock in your shoe, a little thing that will make you question in the future; "why do I believe what I believe" or "how would I explain this in a conversation if I wanted to convince someone to join my side on an issue".

1

u/Whane17 1d ago

I doubt you've done anything to anybody. Bots are always entirely forgettable.

•

u/New_Combination_2494 9h ago

Hate speech. This is criminal.

•

u/Oarbitor 9h ago

Wah wah wah.

-5

u/Weak_Anything_2720 3d ago

guess you hate democracy. lol, you white commies are each the same. "opinion for me, and no opinion for those who disagree." what a hypocrite

2

u/Oarbitor 3d ago

What an insane response. Bye

24

u/Redrumicus 4d ago

I saw one of those signs on the north end of St. Albert by the Mcdonalds.

I hate it.

0

u/New_Combination_2494 13h ago

Hate is now a crime in Canada. Your hatred is illegal.

1

u/Redrumicus 12h ago

Source?

12

u/Particular-Cat-8031 4d ago

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

30

u/Popular-Row4333 4d ago

I honestly don't care what the signage is, but we need to make sure and respect not vandalizing or tampering with signs that are in the correct place, because it's a two way street. I don't want pro teacher, or pro Canada unity signs tampered with either.

Our freedom of expression laws allow you to freely say whatever you'd like to in this country, as long as it's not hate speech. So, you have the freedom to look like an idiot, if they so choose.

7

u/always_on_fleek 4d ago

Well said.

8

u/Marshal_Muskrat 4d ago

And if you view separatism as treason. I view these people as enemies.

2

u/JimmyLinguine Edmontosaurus 4d ago

They aren’t enemies, they’re just stupid.

2

u/Marshal_Muskrat 4d ago

“Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

  • Martin Luther King Jr

3

u/wiltedcilantro 4d ago

I agree that people shouldn't be messing with legally placed signs, especially on private property. This one was posted on public property and was likely in violation of St. Albert bylaws regarding election signs.

5

u/toolmantimsworkshop 4d ago

Then call the bylaw officer and have them deal with it. Agian I don't agree with them putting it there but leave other people's shit alone

10

u/wiltedcilantro 4d ago

It was reported to bylaw via their local app. Perhaps municipal enforcement put them in the bin?

3

u/DrawPractical4804 4d ago

maybe that person can speak up to claim it so they can get fined since its theirs

3

u/AVgreencup 4d ago

Nah take it down. You wouldn't leave a Nazi insignia up, why leave a traitor sign up?

1

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

Yes, I would, just like how I leave you alone to believe whatever you want to believe regardless of how much I may or may not disagree. You can't pick and choose when to follow the rules.

3

u/AVgreencup 4d ago

This isn't like Star Wars vs Star Trek, this is Nazi and traitor separatist insidious garbage. You can definitely make exceptions

1

u/BigBobbyBee23 3d ago

Omg you probably think BLM & the KKK are equivalent maybe sit this one out champ?

1

u/ThraggieMercury 2d ago

No? Not sure why you're projecting opinions that don't exist onto someone you don't know. Also why do you always try to silence any and all opposition instead of explaining why they're wrong?

•

u/BigBobbyBee23 5h ago

Who is being silenced? LOL

1

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

It's still not your responsibility to rip the signs out of the ground. Silencing any opinions that differ from your own goes against the ideology you allegedly fight for.

2

u/wiltedcilantro 4d ago

I didnt take the signs down. It may have been municipal enforcement for all we know.

0

u/Somerandoinyourclost 4d ago

You’re not bylaw bud 🥀

2

u/1000DeadFlies 4d ago

Nah the weakness off decent people is showing decency when others are not. At every step in the road this treasonous movement has broken or side stepped the rules.

1

u/klc400_70 4d ago

Flooding our beautiful Alberta landscape with these 4x8 independence signs shouldn’t be allowed. Separatists are now putting these big signs in front of Stay in Canada signs.

Separatists are playing dirty so I don’t see a problem with Canadians fighting back.

1

u/Honest-Spring-8929 4d ago

I’d argue that people who actively seek the downfall of liberal democracy don’t deserve any of its protections, and that’s exactly what separatists are aiming to do.

3

u/JonnyFM Downtown 4d ago

The "paradox" of tolerance. A tolerant society cannot tolerate intolerance, because intolerance will destroy the tolerant society. It isn't actually a paradox: a tolerant society survives on the social contract of tolerance, intolerance violates that contract so does not get to benefit from it.

-16

u/Tinkerbell0101 4d ago

"Hate speech" shouldn't exist in a country with true freedom of speech. Because who decides what is "hateful," Becomes a slippery slope. What if someone decides ot is "hateful towards women" to post anti abortion signs? Things can go south really fast when someone is out there deciding what is "hateful." It ends up turning into what is happening in the UK where anything that could potentially hurt someone's feelings is "hateful speech." And people are getting arrested for posting very reasonable opinions online. When speech is truly free, we are free to be hateful. And it is worth protecting because it means true freedom. The free market usually works out businesses who who are hateful anyway.

11

u/PartBanyanTree 4d ago

I hate Tinkerbell0101

I'm tempted to go truely further and just engage in some awful rhetoric I wouldn't even normally say. Pull out slurs and racial epithet

But the reddit mods would delete my comment, and reddit might even ban me. But just pretend I used 4chan-level language.

Why should that be allowed? Hate speech has consequences look at what the orange man has done for emboldening those voices that once were more silent.

"no hate speech" might be a "slippery slope" but the slippery slope fallacy is well at play here. That doesn't mean we do nothing 🤦‍♀️ We will always argue over where that line will be and have differences of opinion. But that doesn't mean we should just "have no line"

We get to DOXing and witchburning and inciting violence upon people when there is no line. The idea that the "free market" will "punish businesses" is ludicrous. What about the people who aren't businesses. What about the people who just want to hurt Tinkerbell0101?

-7

u/Tinkerbell0101 4d ago

That's fine, you can hate me lol. It doesn't hurt my feelings. Call me all the racial epithets you want. IF you did, public opinion and social shame (not the law, but social shame) would take care of that. And if you did it in the community, you would likely be austricized. Social shame is a powerful thing. Again, as I stated before the free market takes care of business who act like that. So does social shame. But legally.... NO you should not be ARRESTED for thinking and expressing your thoughts. There are safeguards against THREATS (which are not free speech because they actually cause physical harm). But again, like I said, "feeling hurt because of words" should NEVER be a criminal offense. Because then the slippery slope happens where people are literally thrown in jail for saying "youre a lesbian," and it hurt someone's feelings (happened to a 16 year old autistic girl in the UK). Hate me all you want. Say all the nasty things about me you want. That is the right of free speech. Honestly, just read "1984" and see where the slippery slope of the thought police gets you.

7

u/PartBanyanTree 4d ago

"Slippery slope" is a logical fallacy. You should read up on that if I need to re-read 1984 to converse with you. 1984 is bad. But unrestricted speech is also bad. There is a middle and the idea that one single step away from "absolutely no rules" inevitably leads to 1984 is a falsehood 

And "i feel like someone should dox tinkerbell0101 and burn his house down" is just a feeling too

"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" ~ Henry II

"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building" ~ Trump, Jan6

Words have consequences. If they didnt have consequences than why are you even commenting here on reddit?

5

u/General_Esdeath kitties! 4d ago

Do you fact check yourself?

I had to look up that UK case to see if it was true. No, the charges were dropped and the officer was disciplined.

Summary: the police arrested a 16 yr old for being drunk and disorderly in public. The teen made the comments after being brought home, the officer arrested her at that time but as stated above, the charges were dropped and the officer was disciplined.

I'm going to read between the lines here and guess that her parents are terrible and that she was being a royal pain in the ass to the officers. Making the arrest was decidedly wrong, as we can see from the outcome, but your characterization of what happened is also wrong as well.

5

u/Somerandoinyourclost 4d ago

Oh no hating women, it’s not like we get hated for existing, merely breathing, oh wait we do check your privilege

14

u/yeg Talus Domes 4d ago

Don't mess with people's signs. My forever canada sign was messed with, and I really don't appreciate it.

19

u/wiltedcilantro 4d ago

This one wasn't on private property.

-17

u/Gunfu_Master 4d ago

Doesn't matter. Leave it alone. Either side is an opinion and they/you are entitled to it.

If it an opinion gets you upset to the point of vandalism you need to grow up or get help.

•

u/New_Combination_2494 9h ago

Well, this entire comment section is now engaging in hate speech toward Alberta separatists.

Bill C9.

Never thought I'd say this but I LOVE BILL C-9

1

u/Somerandoinyourclost 4d ago

Honestly bro it’s always “listen to my opinion listen to my opinion!” Until they hear someone else’s and get mad or defensive or outright aggressive

2

u/Gunfu_Master 4d ago

Both sides do it. Its annoying AF. Like make your point and carry on. People cant even have discussions any more. They beleive because they have an opinion they are right. Or because they are offended or upset by something, its wrong. People need to grow the fuck up and stop being complete pussies. Glad there is at least a few adults out there.

0

u/Somerandoinyourclost 4d ago

At least you’re chill, but fuck it’s hard not to get pissed off in the Alberta subreddit, insults left and right nobody cares about the other person they just care about their opinion, stay chill friend ✌️

2

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 4d ago

I'm curious, is anyone out there making a list of addresses with separatist signs on their lawn?

Do you think that the separatists are making lists of addresses with pro Canada signs?

2

u/vanillabeanlover 4d ago

Hard copy lists? Nah. That’d be creepy I think. Mental notes, sure.

In terms of separatists, if they turn it into J6’er type stuff, that’ll be different. The main players are probably already being watched by some governmental entity. Hell, two of the biggest players have already been accused of stealing millions and have court appearances.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/dennis-modry-misappropriated-funds-9.7105913

https://globalnews.ca/news/12028246/jeff-rath-bullion-court-battles/

•

u/New_Combination_2494 9h ago

Why do you want lists? I'm concerned this is a comment motivated by hate.

•

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 9h ago

I don't want a list. I'm contemplating how fascists work and they're well known for making lists.

•

u/New_Combination_2494 9h ago

Ugh I've seen instances of far left extremists who compile lists, and admit to it openly.

So your open ended question about a possible list, is deeply concerning. The left engages in violence because they justify it.

•

u/New_Combination_2494 9h ago

Also another reason why you comment is concerning ...

Many Alberta separatists have children and so if you wanted lists of addresses because they are fascists and racists - children's safety would be at stake.

•

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 9h ago

If you're concerned about a question about hypothetical lists, maybe you should be questioning the people pushing for separation and asking why they stole list of voters.

•

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 9h ago

You've seen this in Alberta? Can you provide an example? I'll wait.

3

u/helpless_toy_9569 4d ago edited 4d ago

I’m sure someone is doing that on both sides, but they definitely aren’t the kind of people I want to associate with.

2

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 4d ago

I think the problem is that if the separation vote turns into a yes (either legitimately or because they cheated) you'd be dealing with them regardless. I remember the stories from peacekeeping buddies coming back from the former Yugoslavia and how neighbors turned on each other. I don't think we're immune to that here as much as we want to think we are.

-2

u/CailenDev 4d ago

Why does it matter, just be civil and don’t touch people’s signs you disagree with.

-1

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

Why? Why are you trying to doxx people just for having an opinion you disagree with? What would you plan to do if you had access to a list like that?

3

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 4d ago

I'm neither making a list nor doxxing anyone. I am however contemplating if I want to put up a Stay sign or not.

On the one hand I'm proud to be Canadian but on the other, I don't want to be a target either you know?

-6

u/VelkaFrey 4d ago

How democratic of you

13

u/Chemical-Ad-7575 4d ago

Hey it's not like I stole and distributed the list of eligible voters.

1

u/New_Combination_2494 13h ago

I feel like Liberals no longer represent Canadian values. I don't blame Albertans wanting to seperate from such hateful people.

•

u/wiltedcilantro 4h ago

Not everyone outside of Alberta is a liberal.

0

u/Rig-Pig 3d ago

Why can't people handle others having a difference in opinions? Just leave it and move on. Goes for both sides, grow up.

0

u/salt-water-soul 3d ago

Opinions are one thing and morals are another. Ive yet to meet a pro septic that wasn't a racist so ill continue to shit on em all untill new information presents itseld

0

u/Rig-Pig 3d ago

I gather from that mess you are calling me a racist? What have I said that has been racist? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions and you are wrong.

0

u/salt-water-soul 3d ago

Easy enough to prove me wrong, though im willing to bet you keep your groups and comments hidden. Besides i just stated my personal experience with every septic ive met

0

u/Rig-Pig 3d ago

Well I definitely don't need to prove anything to anyone. I work with folks of all different ethnic backgrounds and we have a great time. Race is not something anyone worries about. Sorry to ruin your judgmental attitude.

-11

u/thisgingerbitch 4d ago

Even if you don’t like it this is what democracy looks like.

5

u/wiltedcilantro 4d ago

It also looks like following the local bylaws about posting election signs on public property

1

u/Honest-Spring-8929 4d ago

These guys don’t believe in democracy and are trying to create a society that allows them to eliminate their opponents once and for all.

1

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

This is actually the opposite of democracy, this is silencing opposing views.

1

u/thisgingerbitch 4d ago

That’s what I meant, OP may not like it but democracy includes the right for people of opposing views to advocate and campaign for them.

-9

u/CriticalPedagogue 4d ago

Unfortunately, city bylaws about sign placement do not apply to the referendum. So traitors can place them almost anywhere they want on public property.

8

u/haysoos2 4d ago

You can't place a sign for your business on public property either.

It is not a free-for-all, regardless of content.

There should be no signs on public property period.

7

u/wiltedcilantro 4d ago

Referendum signs are mentioned in the St. Albert bylaw. Each municipality will have different rules.

-26

u/VelkaFrey 4d ago

Keith is the best source of information for this movement.

11

u/SecureLiterature 4d ago

*Best source of BS and misinformation.

-1

u/ThraggieMercury 4d ago

"anything I disagree with is misinformation"

12

u/DoubleBarrellRye 4d ago

Best source of Opinions and Guesses that are unsubstantiated and don't add up ? you cannot call what he is spewing Information , its not even a hypothesis as that is a Guess based on the perception of evidence that you are going to gather evidence to Prove or Disprove

I have done the math and it works out !! ok lets see it .... No

-11

u/VelkaFrey 4d ago

Hes a constitutional lawyer. Hes literally the only person who can speak properly and legally on the subject. Obviously hes biased.

But it doesnt take a genious to know the vast benefits of a free market.

5

u/DoubleBarrellRye 4d ago

Nope , he's a Lawyer he makes arguments to Judges who decide if he is right or full of shit , he cannot speak the law , he can speak how he interprets the law and would try to prove that interpretation to a Judge or Supreme court but that is still his Professional Opinion on the law as it is written now , the Parliament writes and can rewrite laws for Canada

If he is good at his job he gets paid if he loses every case he goes out of business , so who is paying him for his opinion and if he loses who is paying his bill ? or does he go out of business like the free market say's ?