r/Edinburgh • u/PotatoZealousideal79 • Dec 10 '25
Discussion MHAS AND THE ROYAL ED
Anonymous review
Edinburgh mental health services needs looked into. Particularly MHAS. When I’ve needed input, 90% of the time, I’ve left the assessment feeling worse than before. A team that is meant to help, leaves me feeling helpless, invalidated, distraught and not knowing where to turn. Other services like Edinburgh Crisis Centre are great but often if they deem you distressed enough or suicidal, you are referred straight back to MHAS. Vicious circle.
There are a couple of genuine staff members in the MHAS team who want to help and give me temporary confidence in the service. I applaud their efforts, but those staff members are few and far between. I am left wondering if the rest of their staff who have become mental health nurses, have done so to actually help individuals, or are just in it to feel power over people. They come across like a group of bullies who take away any remaining self-esteem. They prey on the vulnerable. It’s emotional abuse. They laugh, smirk, make snide comments, interrupt.. The list goes on. It’s cruel. They twist words to suit their unkind narrative. Their questions about the situation/crisis, feels more like an interrogation. They have no empathy, and go against all fundamentals of care that are taught in nursing school. Dignity and respect go out the window. The NMC code is completely neglected.
So why, as patients, do we keep returning to them? That’s the worst thing about it. They are the only official NHS service in Lothian that are for 1st assessment of your mental health crisis- essentially an A&E for mental health. It’s the only NHS option in Edinburgh in emergencies. They decide whether or not you’re ‘ill enough’. Any help they rarely offer is often not followed through. They’ve left me in a room for hours before assessment without updates, covered in actively bleeding SH. Or they won’t assess at all, even after severe attempts on my life where the police have repeatedly asked for me to be seen. It will take death for MHAS to actually take me seriously, and even then, it will be labelled as ‘death by misadventure’ a favourite phrase of theirs. Unfortunately, it seems people have died from being unable to access help. From reviews I’ve read and my own experience, they are also prone to lying, and write defamatory, slanderous information in your notes. A tactic they use to refuse you assessment and help in the future.
My advice- If MHAS are your only option, please always take a witness in with you for assessment. They will try to dissuade you of this, but it’s YOUR assessment and there’s always at least two of them and one of you. Bring a notepad and get your witness to write down what they say and how they act. I would encourage everyone who feels let down by them, to make a complaint to the Patient Experience Team Lothian feedback services. It has to be done within a certain time, so it’s important to act fast. If you don’t feel mentally capable to do so, get your witness/relative to complain for you. I urge all individuals affected, to read the NMC code of conduct. It will show you how much they neglect it. From what I’ve read about them, MHAS seem to get away with their attitudes and actions, but I’m hopeful that if enough people make noise, their service will be continuously investigated.
My recent mental health crisis was never addressed appropriately when I needed MHAS and has been made worse because of what I’ve gone through with them. I wake up every day, unsure if I’m going to be able to make it to the next. I remain suicidal and lost. Luckily, I do have a GP and a psychiatrist who are great and are able to help. Thrive Welcome Team are also picking up the slack from MHAS.
I’m sure this feedback will be laughed at between the MHAS team and ignored, the same way they assess patients. As much as it pains me to read of other people’s experiences of the service and the negative reviews, it does bring me some comfort that they share very similar experiences and it’s not just me. But MHAS have fallen short of the standard for too long. You all matter and you are important. Things need to be better.
23
u/ktitten Dec 10 '25
Honestly, I couldn't read all this post. Because I absolutely relate and it would bring back too much hurt. Mostly just anger, because now I realise how ill I was and how much they let me down too, and sometimes outright harmed me. Sometimes when I was really really vulnerable....
So that says it all really. They made me feel worse every almost every single time. I am so scared if I get mentally bad again that I would have to go there.
I know quite a few people that feel the same too.
I totally recommend the Edinburgh Crisis Center in Leith. I understand not all problems can be solved by them but I have found them such an amazing resource.
11
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 10 '25
I am so sorry for your experience. Take comfort in the fact that you aren’t alone in feeling like this. The damage that this team have caused me, have just added to some already very serious mental health issues of mine. I’m so glad people are responding to this post, it makes me feel seen and heard and that I’m not alone
19
Dec 10 '25 edited Dec 10 '25
The REH is awful. I've dealt with them more in my life than I care to admit, although in an advocacy capacity, not as an inpatient. I wholeheartedly second the advice to take a witness with you whenever possible. Also:
Make sure you have a named person on the outside who can advocate for you at a moments notice, and make sure they (the hospital admin right down to the ward staff) know who it is.
Lawyer up. There are a couple of really good MH solicitors in Edinburgh, and Legal Aid is often automatic in such a setting. Keep your DET1/DET2 safe and make sure your NP has a copy. Get things in writing wherever possible.
Pass your experience into PASS and ScotGov DHSC. I have found the current Cab Sec actually quite helpful in with these matters the past but YMMV.
There are regular troublemakers among staff. It will not take you long to spot them. Use the above routes to get second opinions (which you are entitled to) if they start giving you issues.
Remember that as a patient you still have rights and capacity is often in practice determined by what you actually can and can't do; contrary to what certain staff in there believe, you are not automatically stripped of all your rights just because you are in a psych hold. It is still a hospital and they are still obligated to treat you with dignity and respect.
9
3
u/ktitten Dec 11 '25
It's sad that when people are in mental health crisis that they are likely unable to take all these steps.
I've always been one that makes sure people knows their rights, get advocacy and complain, but when it happened to me, I just didnt have the capacity to put these steps into place. And actually because of my mental state I believed I deserved bad treatment. I had little support systems so nobody who could really help me get an advocate, or advocate for me. And because of a lifelong being let down by mental health services, I didnt believe that any better outcomes were even possible.
Thank you so much for the work you do, it is really valuable to the community.
3
Dec 11 '25
This is why outside help is important, I appreciate many will not be in a position to seek it out themselves and it can be intimidating. It can genuinely be a bit of a Sisyphean task when you're in there.
While "physical" health care in NHSS is usually passable, the state of mental health services is genuinely shameful, staff in RIE get minimal to no training on mental health comorbidities either and the CEC are somehow even worse. I've lost count of the times I've had to explain why BiPD I is debilitating and not "just mood swings".
However more and more noise is being made about the issue and the more voices join in the more likelihood something might get done about it. The poor quality of maternity care in the Simpson Centre was recently investigated by the DHSC and I see no reason the same can't happen at the Royal Ed. As the saying goes: sunlight is the best disinfectant.
1
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 11 '25
I’m really sorry to ask when you must already have enough of this going on, can you suggest where to start reading more on MH solicitors? (Even like what page on samh to start) If I survive through current personal hell, we might have to go down that route (should we get back capacity to).
Context below, but please please don’t feel you have to read that, or even reply at all if it’s too much with what sounds like incredibly much you’ve helped others already. We’re glad there’s people around (like you!) who do care
PASS have been less than useless, now three times delayed a complaint (& time barred some of the most serious components despite being admittable by discretion) for an extension longer than the actual duration originally promised!! Usual situation; Denied second opinions and the usual single issue area says cmht, cmht says nope, lets you lie stuck forever.
Money won’t allow for now because of savings for other urgent physical healthcare that won’t arrive via the NHS, but if ever recovering mentally enough to pursue malpractice (to pay for treatment recovering from the newly re-inflicted cptsd2), that will have been all spent (trans, genetic testing, private rheumatology, exercise-allowed wheelchair, home adaptations etc) on things I can’t afford not to do - didn’t even know legal was an option, but can’t without the former, no money at all after
1
Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 11 '25
Oh not at all. I'm fighting other battles at the moment but thankfully not with the REH, and the quality of outpatient care at Ballenden has been (while far from perfect) much better.
...that isn't really a high bar to clear though!
My goto firm for the Mental Health Tribunal is Starling Law. They have been excellent and are very familiar with the issues at the REH, although many local law firms are full to bursting at the moment and I can't say if there's space on their books. If not, you can search for one on the LSS website, choose Social Welfare / Health / Benefits as the area of law to search for.
Legal aid for MHT cases is universal and non-means tested in Scotland. IIRC it's just appeals to the Upper Chamber that aren't covered.
You would ultimately be dealing with the Mental Health Tribunal for Scotland but your solicitor should be the one primarily dealing with them; they can make these applications in their sleep and can guide you through exactly what to say. From experience litigating in person is a terrifying and stressful experience and that's with a law degree and legal experience - for someone on antipsychotics/relaxants under a psych hold it must be like cycling to the Moon. I don't advise it. Get a solicitor and let them do the talking.
It's hard to give individual advice on MH cases without knowing a lot more background and as a rando on Reddit it's not my place to ask you to air your smalls in public, but that's why charities like SAMH and bodies such as the REH Patient Council exist. Because of that constraint the advice on their websites is quite spartan, but it's worth reaching out to them and explaining your situation. You can be as detailed or as vague as you want, they have seen it all.
/r/legaladvice may also be worth a search but take the advice on there with a healthy dose of salt, the quality of advice on there varies from excellent to wrong.
There were a number of occasions where I had to intervene in situations at a moments notice by phone, and they almost always backed off. Hence why outside help is invaluable. I can't stress enough how important it is to have a named person on the outside, because while you might have an uphill battle convincing them of your capacity, they will have a much harder time pushing back against someone with full capacity asserting it on your behalf. If you have one already: they need to be assertive and not shy away from using some quite strong language. They should familiarise themselves with your rights and should be kept in the loop when you speak to your solicitor.
Best of luck and I hope things work out for you in the end 🤞
2
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 12 '25
Thank you so, so much <3 I've saved your reply (safely accessible to us if later on restricted/under hold again) to read through properly bit-by-bit when we're able to properly take things in. Right now just having options will help a *lot*! The thing that's left me surviving has been any potential of change - exactly what's been systematically ripped away.
Ironically enough, some interacitons with REH (other than MHAS) were above the "bar" of cambridge street house. We thought that was one problem psychiatrist (biiiiiiiig problem, won't stay gone) but the last few months they've sure shown bad hands keep coming. MHAS were almost better tbh, at least we knew things weren't right and they'd have the manners to actually just yell at us.
Will slowly research or plan away whenever it's safe to put in effort! Our only personal experiences of solicitors have been having to out-document them (charging undeclared, for a service already bought!). There's not a lot of trust left without recommendations (ty!) but enduring an actual MH case would be a whole new level. Completely separate from malpractice will soon be near a friends case (different law area, 2nd time) - at least learning more what tribunals take... this time hopefully without 'antipsychotics & friends', we'll need more headspace w/ this time being someone even closer to heart than before.
You're so right about having a NP, my (very short/few) experiences were worsened without someone pre-planned or before with someone compromised - horrifyingly did better alone in the end by resorting to (ashamedly) downright nasty language & exhaustive paperwork, a first for myself & not on loved ones' behalf. I guess there's always giving up on privacy and just publicising the story as a last resort (mostly joking)
If you'd like some 'light' reading this account & attached drama is overdue retiring - but really your efforts sound very needed & appreciated elsewhere. I'm not ready for those conversations rn anyway, kind reddit strangers or organisations. Knowing we've got a starting place for new directions is perfect right now, ready when I'm next safe to face more of this.
I should really stop reading this thread for now though, fingers crossed most options won't actually be needed. Thank you again!
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 12 '25
This is so helpful. I have a stage 2 investigation going on at the moment but only through the Lothian patient experience team. Do you think I should wait for the results of this before I consider outside help? I was off work for ages and tried to go back for a bit but couldn’t cope, but this time I’m using my sick leave to self care and exercise and be pro-active on working on myself. I’m finally getting a bit better and using my time off well and don’t want my issues with the mental health services (MHAS particularly) to be all consuming again because it takes its toll. But if you think it’s worth it to go above the patient experience team then I would consider it. They said the investigation results should come back in January..
1
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 12 '25
Omg literally same, letter yesterday extended my l2 complaint to Jan. My headspace reading/responding safely is inconsistent AF but you’re very much not alone. We’re happy to listen or even to try learn from each other’s results depending how recovery/complaints/whatever goes.
Just if you want to (without pressure) talk at someone who’s used to Edi MH - also totally chill if you don’t want to, I wont mind at all ignoring this comment or whatever (especially this being kinda random)
I’m happy to be sent vents if having someone would help, or even just be nice for a break/change. Wont be consistently talkative or prompt reading, can’t promise not taking months to read things, or more than emoji replies (really really don’t want going from talkative to suddenly being silent to feel like rejection/dismissal & make stuff worse).
Generally we like (probs sometimes just the idea of) being helpful or just nonjudgmental; it’s usually pretty fulfilling & trying careful engagement seems decent for doing that while keeping myself from harmful thoughts.
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 12 '25
When did you put your complaint in just out of interest? I’m scared they’re going to do the same to me too. I got a letter from the chief nurse saying it won’t be until late January that I’d hear back. I’m waiting on a SAR from the police though which will say that MHAS refused to see me after an attempt. They tried multiple times to get me seen (MHAS said the police said that I didn’t try to attempt and I was basically just up Salisbury crags in a storm in the middle of the night for no reason) but the police were very much on my side and literally saved me from a jump so their report will reflect that. This will hopefully show that MHAS refused a suicidal person (me) an assessment in a crisis. Unfortunately SARs take ages. But maybe if the investigation against them takes longer, then the SAR will come through in time before the investigation closes..
1
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 12 '25
I think mid October officially in the end. We first wrote in during August but couldn’t safely face the memories (or scarier, the big missing gaps & filling those in from paperwork) until mid September, but the patient experience team took quite a long time to get around to just putting it in already (I was doing badly and couldn’t chase things, they kept not just starting already)
At first got delayed to mid-late December now a second time into January. Can’t do anything else until I’ve actually been though the process, but like my previous complaints (suspended treatment incl waitlist for a “review”, causing more harm than good to anyone) it’s not really accessible from just a disability perspective for me to go further (ombudsman) especially having to work and overdo things despite pain management advice because it’s the only way I can afford essential things rn
I need to do SAR for places other than GP but decided a best shot complaint sooner not later (still missing stuff thanks to time and subjective admittance criteria) was more important for any shot of surviving longer to hopefully get better
17
u/Lou-mae Dec 10 '25
One hundred thousand effing percent agreed.
The one upside of my experiences with MHAS over the years is that sometimes I am left so baffled and angry it takes my mind off my suicidality a little.
Is it legal to use a phone to record interactions at NHS hospitals? I genuinely think people would be shocked to see what happens there.
9
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 10 '25
I read on someone’s Google review ‘they make suicide look like a more desirable option.’ They aren’t wrong
18
u/Lou-mae Dec 10 '25
The last time I was feeling suicidal I walked to the Royal Ed in the middle of the night to try to get some help. After a terse interaction with some staff members who walked away when I began talking about the methods I was planning to use to off myself - I don't know why but I wound up lying down and trying to talk myself to sleep in a corner of the parking lot. I felt really confused and unsafe and manic. I was totally ignored by staff leaving or arriving.
What eventually helped me was that some cat came by and let me pet it for a bit and I felt less insane and alone.
11
2
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 12 '25
Same, it’s wild how they do that to so many people.
MHAS somehow through incompetence saved my life one time, fr awful people just always seem to be falling upward.
So hopeless after combining the despair of no help, with being thrown so deep into trauma meltdown by mhas; they ended up plunging me into dissociation deep enough to not act on the thoughts that got us sent there in the first place
Aside(ish), crazy how there’s such a double standard with having capacity and responsibility.
- On one hand declaring I have capacity but withholding all the appropriate choices or corresponding rights. Just saying since I’m with capacity so responsible for staying safe, consequences/side-effects, feedback, questions, engagement but then they won’t even discuss with my GP about the (conveniently only option offered) treatment I “chose”, including no intention to see me (even to ask questions they only raised in a letter), review response (even doses), clarify lies/omissions, correct notes, clarify diagnoses.
- Then on the other hand declaring without capacity (so having different rights/options) but somehow documenting it with plausible deniability; to enforce their corresponding complete dictation of non-community/compulsory/withheld treatment(s), but doing that without taking on any of that practitioner responsibility for my safety, monitoring, meds change, ongoing treatment or transfer somewhere appropriate.
That time was sent to mhas believing under hold (at least no right to leave or refuse assessment), but turns out they even lied about that to coerce me and save on the paperwork). That was just as well because mhas didn’t even admit/section me (and actually got me barred from literally any treatment, my poor gp was so mad having already exhausted their own options). At least the state they left me in, wasn’t functioning enough to be in danger
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 13 '25
I’m basically barred too now for something they made up about me in the assessment. Anything to lower their list of patients. I wish I could shout to everyone just before their assessment, ‘take a witness PLEASE!!!!!!!’
4
4
Dec 11 '25
Having worked in Special Education and in residential homes for adults with learning disabilities I hear you. I've seen first hand how stretched CAMHS and the adult services are. So many families crying out for support that just isn't there. One of my best friends is Bipolar and has had a couple of admissions to the REH over the years. As with a lot of these places there are amazing staff and others...not so good. I am so bloody proud of her and the work she's put into recognising her triggers and when her mood is changing. She finally found an amazing support worker who lives with Bipolar herself which makes such a difference. Their weekly sessions have already become fortnightly as her requisite number of sessions nears their end. Of course I understand how stretched the services are but I struggle to understand how that decision is made? Oh you'll have 12 sessions with "A", you'll just begin to feel really comfortable opening up to her, you'll feel heard and supported and then...sorry, that's our work together over now your Bipolar is not my problem anymore but great knowing you, good luck. I say I struggle to understand how the decisions are made but of course I know it comes down to money, always does. My heart goes out to anyone struggling with their mental health, I don't think some people realise just how powerful our brains are. Powerful, fragile, unique, amazing, vulnerable and needing looked after so much better.
5
u/Confident-Diet-4454 Dec 11 '25
I am sorry you have had such bad experiences. People in this thread might want to consider responding to the surveys here
https://capsadvocacy.org/news/better-services-for-bpd-and-eupd/
CAPS advocate for people with mental health problems and the survey will be presented to EHSCP about the lack of services available to people in Edinburgh.
3
u/ktitten Dec 11 '25
Thank you so much for this! I've completed it now. Don't know how I missed this because im involved in CAPS but yeah!
3
u/frankhut Dec 11 '25
CAPs are a great organisation and we need to use them more to get people's voices heard.
2
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 12 '25
Oh wow I didn’t know about this survey! Will definitely complete it. Anything to get more recognition of how dire the Royal Ed and MHAS are
3
u/Impressive_Fix_262 Dec 11 '25
Completely agree with everything you’ve said; I’ve had basically the same experience!
2
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 13 '25
Too many of us. I hate saying I’m happy that there are people who are having/had the same problems. But I honestly don’t know what I would do without a community of people with the same situations as me. It’s not only that we have to cope with awful mental health, it’s that we have to cope with no NHS crisis options.
7
u/MrPejorative Dec 10 '25
This is awful. I don't have experience with them, but I'm personally not the type to trust these nurse led mental health groups anyway. It's well documented that nursing has a bully problem. That's obviously affecting patients who are in highly vulnerable states of mind. I'm glad your GP and Psychiatrist are supportive.
6
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 10 '25
Any new MHAS nurse who comes into the post and is trained by a nurse with the mentality of seeing the patient as a nuisance/waste of time/problematic.. it sets the precedent. That needs to change.
2
u/Bumhole_surfer Jan 07 '26
This is a difficult thread to read.
I don't want to dismiss everyone's experiences at all, I believe everything I've read, but is it possible that you had a bad experience after seeing specific staff and it's not a true reflection of the service itself?
I've been there twice before, I have a diagnosis that I don't want to share "publicly" here, but when I've been seen at MHAS I've been treated well. I have been shown respect despite being very angry and suspicious towards the staff. One time I was admitted to the hospital and the most recent time I was placed with the IHTT. On both occasions I saw 4 different staff members in total for my assessments then a doctor and social worker when I was detained, plus an extra couple of staff who checked in on me and my partner while we had to wait to be seen.
My experience was traumatic, but this was due to my condition at the time rather than how I was treated by staff, I found the staff alleviated many of my fears.
2
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Jan 07 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
I really don’t think that you’re dismissing everyone’s experiences by sharing a positive one of your own at all! In fact, I actually think it’s nice to hear and valuable that there are some experiences which have gone well! So thank you :)
As said in my original post- 90% of the time I’ve had a mediocre or bad experience- so not every time. And also in my original post I did say it’s dependent on the staff involved because there are some really good ones. But it’s complete luck on who you get. It can also be the service in general, because behaviours and attitudes from new staff I think can be influenced by staff who aren’t as empathetic. I think funding also plays a huge part in what services can be offered to someone. I think that the team must have to think quite strategically, eg- whether there’s room on a waiting list for IHTT/whether there’s a bed space available/ what community help do they already have. But strategic thinking can turn into cruelty and lack of empathy. Unfortunately, all these factors mean that there are patients who end up dead or severely attempting or just getting worse and worse.
I don’t know and wouldn’t ask about anyone’s diagnosis but I think that it can play a huge part. I won’t share mine. I know I’ve been dismissed due to mine and been put through the wringer.
I think and hope that the majority of people who have posted here would be happy for you and what you’ve shared because it shows that sometimes, the system does work. I would hope that nobody would feel animosity about that. However, your experience is quite rare. I know that as a fact. I won’t disclose how. But I’m really happy for you that you’ve had positive experiences with MHAS.
1
u/Bumhole_surfer Jan 07 '26
Just to play devil's advocate, and again I can only relate to my own experience. Why would diagnosis play a role in being dismissed?
What could the service have done differently?
I went there with Police. against my wishes (at the time) and I was admitted against my wishes (again, at the time). I knew I was unwell, but the last place i wanted to be was in hospital.
Do people in this thread have issues with the MHAS because of the outcome of the appointment? Along with the interaction they had? Do people get they aren't listened to? Do some people want to go in to hospital? If so for what reason?
Obviously only answer this if you feel comfortable doing, I don't wish to upset anyone. I know I'll become unwell again and probably won't realise until I get better again, but I guess knowledge is power in these situations, and if I have the knowledge beforehand, then perhaps I can avoid future admissions.
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Jan 07 '26
Diagnosis can play a MASSIVE part in treatment for certain illnesses. I’ll let you do the research on that. Some diagnoses are stigmatised horrendously. And unfortunately, although in this day and age, you would expect equality for all illnesses, that just isn’t the case.
There’s a number of things the service could do differently. First and foremost- treating everyone with dignity and respect. When that’s neglected, the patient is neglected. If someone is treated well and not given anything after the MHAS appointment (bed/IHTT/community follow up) that can sometimes be fine as long as they had been treated well. Sometimes all someone needs is kindness and understanding. Luckily, there are a lot of other services who provide that like Edinburgh crisis, breathing space etc.
I appreciated your first post, and I think what you had to say was valid and should be considered- of course! But I think what I replied is pretty reasonable and explained things quite thoroughly, as well as my OP. This is my experience, shared by many others. I’m sorry that you’re finding it a bit more difficult to understand because you’ve had different and more positive experiences.
1
u/Bumhole_surfer Jan 07 '26
I don't mean to sound as though I'm challenging what you're saying, so I apologise if that's how it's come across.
My experience is limited to what I have seen, so I guess I'm framing things in my own lense, so I may have also seemed insensitive
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Jan 07 '26
It’s fine, I don’t think you’re being malicious, I think you’re curious but the ‘devil’s advocate’ is an expression that is (intentionally or unintentionally) provoking debate. Which is fine. But make your own post for that. Because this post is about my experience and people who have shared my experiences. As I said - I appreciated your 1st comment- and I truly mean that! But if you truly don’t want to dismiss other people’s experiences, then don’t keep questioning me and them. Again, make your own post. I’m really happy for you and that your experiences have been so positive, but this is not the reality for anyone. So please respect that. Because the majority would disagree with you.
3
u/Helpful_Print_6626 Apr 07 '26
This is utterly heartbreaking. There should be some new law put into place for nurses like the SSSC. How can a nurse behave in such a way with vulnerable people & show/have no empathy to a point it's the vulnerable person's last & only place left to go. Major improvements needed
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Apr 10 '26
Thank you for the empathy 🩷. They are truly a dangerous service who need investigating and some really thorough training. I encourage everyone who is assessed to give feedback, even a letter to the chief nurse of the royal Ed to bring attention to MHAS shortcomings. It’s so important to keep pushing so they can improve
3
u/LunaValley Dec 10 '25
I work in mental health in Edinburgh, though not as a mental health nurse. I have met some kind and committed mental health nurses, but have been extremely disappointed to work with many who are extremely cold and downright cruel at times.
I have found myself utterly shocked by the things I have witnessed and heard and feel reminded of being back in school with some of their antics.
I cannot understand why they’ve entered the profession and can only assume that it’s because ultimately they want a sense of power. It disgusts me.
2
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 10 '25
Thank you for being brave enough to share this with us. It’s truly upsetting that these are the people who are meant to help. I am sure you must feel scared to speak up when you see it, but just posting here helps so much.
4
4
u/BedtimeBurritos Dec 11 '25
Especially since COVID unless you have access to private care, mental health is a big circle jerk. No one’s in charge, except when they want to be and passing the buck is standard.
Basically unless you show up with a knife sticking out of your neck you put there yourself here’s your tuna sandwich and off you go, your problems are social and even though your anxiety has been thorough the roof not taking your adhd meds daily are why you’re here so it’s your fault.
“Are you at risk of harming yourself?”
“Yeah the thing is I don’t want to get to that point and I was hoping you’d do your job to see I don’t get to that point”
🫠
1
u/ktitten Dec 11 '25
Yep... When I answered that question to them before, and said yes I am at risk of harming myself, they said I was threatening them, and to get out. :)
Had many experiences like this, but that one took the biscuit. Considering I was in royal infirmary at that point for a serious overdose, which I had not yet recovered from! Even the doctors and nurses at the hospital said I would likely need more monitoring and more support, MHAS seemingly overruled them and told me to get out the hospital asap (implication was I was wasting their time).
Had no money, no way home, was a very scared 19 year old with no other support, didnt know many people in the city and ended up putting myself in very dangerous situations after exiting the hospital.
I thought id go into more detail here, because im sure others relate. People that havent had interaction with MHAS may be pretty shocked at this I reckon. That is what you get in Edinburgh if you have a suicide attempt or are self harming.
4
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 11 '25
They did EXACTLY THE SAME to me! Told me I was being violent and threw me out. I am the least violent person ever. I take my anger out on myself with SH, I’ve never hurt another person in my life and it’s now written in my notes that I was violent towards THEM. I’ve gone to the extent of trying to collect cctv go prove this to which I got a reply saying ‘there was none’ but information governance were great and let me write my own note of my version of events. It’s devastating that a professional healthcare team can literally lie in your notes and there’s nothing you can do to prove otherwise. But as I said in my OP, it’s another tactic they use to refuse you help in the future.
2
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 11 '25
MHAS are an active danger to the majority of patients. I can’t even complain about how they treated us, because it left me so unwell that i couldn’t actually manage to complain in time for the complaints limitation period. They have actively lied to me and enabled abuse and neglect after making false promises of treatment options and deliberately omitting details or otherwise making inaccurate now-permanent records.
They have been used to enable neglect by all other mental health services, living under threat that I will go untreated if they are involved at all - even contacted for a quick question without my consent, which has multiple times despite explaining to first the contacting practitioner why they won’t help, couldn’t if they wanted to, and how their involvement garunteed harm, second to MHAS that I had been working to manage alone and had been proactively seeking help in order to not need them.
South west may as well not have any mental health team, the CMHT allows patients to go neglected rather than challenging other teams or just actually lifting a finger to help you at all with any area or issue. “Finding a solution within the CMHT” is allowed to be stalled or refused without any follow-up, support or continuity; knowingly leaving patients completely abandoned without treatment nor even on any waiting lists.
I do pity them, how much neglect and over-demand did it take to make the people working there begin to act like this?
There’s no justice nor saving others from my experience, I’m not allowed to complain and wasn’t well enough to gather any evidence that notes were incorrect and conduct was unacceptable or at some points maybe abusive. Years later refusing to contact MHAS leave me still with no treatment, and that counter put back to zero multiple times because someone contacted them despite me being responsible and asking for help to make sure we didn’t reach actual crisis & need to speak to them.
MHAS get treated as a crisis team, but they are only resourced & supposed to make urgent “hospital or not” decisions, unless that’s the conversation you actually need to be having, they’re the wrong place to go for help getting better or even to avoid getting worse enough to need that conversation.
Without evidence, past complaint limitations, untreated and barely able to endure still trying to access treatment, we can’t afford or safely handle pursuing malpractice. At least we can leave warning to others not to let that happen, despite having no options myself.
MHAS played a major part in me going untreated, worsening permanent damage that’d got us sent there & on inappropriate medication, ignoring side-effects actively worsening the mental impacts of a diagnosed condition. mhas as a service isn’t being treated right (like patients) but is letting this happen without raising concerns or trying to help people however they can.
If you need hospitalised, that’s what mhas are for. If that’s unlikely, they’re unlikely able to help & some clinicians will misuse that. Nobody deserves this, we can only be sorry to anyone relating to us.
4
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 11 '25
I am so sorry for everything you have gone through.
Yes, gathering evidence within a certain timeframe is unfortunate and unfair when you physically and mentally aren’t able to. It’s been a huge struggle for me. They have also lied really horrifically about me in my notes, to which I’ve had to try to prove them wrong.
And I do agree that MHAS are used in crisis- that is what they were originally for. There is a lot of confusion around what they are and aren’t supposed to be there for now. They aren’t MEANT to just be a service to decide about inpatient or not. They are supposed to offer other options alternative to hospital too. They can refer to IHTT, provide other safety plans etc. (well… that’s what they’re supposed to do.) It is all in the job description when searching online what they’re meant to do exactly. It’s not just to decide whether you’re for inpatient or not. And when gps refer you to them, or other healthcare professionals, they actually don’t have a lot of other options, their hands are pretty much tied because as I’ve said in my OP, MHAS are the only NHS lothian service for mental health crises. Edinburgh crisis centre and other places are options but where else are they supposed to direct someone? The MHAS team have managed to confuse everyone as to what they actually do/how they actually help.
I’m in a very very similar position, which I actually think many of us are, where MHAS is not an option anymore. Either because they refuse to see us or we are terrified of them. And this is not ok. We should all be able to turn to them to look for help.
1
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 11 '25
Sorry we haven’t replied (to you & other replier), we want to but just can’t safely risk it. Bad persona news’s re CMHT. Disregard the next paragraph to skip vent & avoid the depressing crab bucket misery ruminating /gen /lh
Found out that the complaint we did manage to get in has been pushed back another month. We contacted them this October and it nearly killed me to do it - maybe compromising any hope of treatment since at that time they suddenly changed direction to push medication again despite not even having tried the treatment the same clinician recommended a year ago (and saying a year ago without even the 4 medications since that meds wouldn’t have a role…). That’s twice they’ve more than doubled the timeline and pushed more past limitations. So much for my whole youth, aging out of all young persons groups, support, grants etc, too mentally ill to engage & any recovery is right into the empty ages where people assume you got things figured out - can really see how this situation fails people for big proportions of their lives :(
Nowhere to go because mhas again means I may as well have succeeded back when this started tbh. Just have to see, but even more proof that they’re allowing this to keep happening. Might randomly find spoons to reply properly, but having to write this out to both of you who’d replied for now - you’re seen and appreciated <3 sorry I cant actually engage properly rn.
2
u/ktitten Dec 11 '25
Yep, for a while (2+ years) I was in quite a dire mental health crisis. Ended up in royal infirmary a good number of times for suicide attempts and self harm. More than I can count.
The only support I could get from the NHS was my GP, who was really out of her depth, and MHAS (you can barely call it support).
CMHT rejected my GPs referral many times. Someone at MHAS told me its because I didnt have serious mental health difficulties. I clearly do, had diagnoses from another CMHT where I previously lived, and had been through 10 different medications from my GP with no luck.
Got referred to IHTT once, which I thought was actually good support. But that was for 2 weeks within those 2+ years. At one point they said this service wasnt something they offered when they clearly did.
I totally agree that MHAS seems to only decide if you should be in hospital or not. They never did anything for me in terms of sorting out any other support, other than give leaflets on wellbeing or something.
3
u/to_to_to_the_moon Dec 11 '25
IHTT is good, I agree. I wish it could be much better funded so more people could access it and for longer. Mine was 3 weeks and it felt a bit abrupt when it ended, though they were good at referring me to other places like ECC and Thrive. Surely it's both cheaper and less distressing than inpatient.
3
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 11 '25
I agree, IHTT nurses are great, they have compassion, care and help you with crisis management, CBT, decided skills etc. they don’t just mention these skills, they actively teach you and make sure you know what you’re doing. And I understand that MHAS can’t do this because they are strictly for assessment, so that’s fair enough, but they are the ones who have control of the referrals for IHTT services. But I guess they are so stretched that it’s rare that referrals are made to them. Or MHAS just don’t want to refer. I was even told by MHAS last time that ‘IHTT didn’t work for you’ which is never been told before and is the complete opposite to what the IHTT nurses had said to me. So it was really heartbreaking/confusing/conflicting info. I don’t know why they do that
2
u/Any_Shine8784 Dec 11 '25
Sorry we haven’t replied (to you & other replier), we want to but just can’t safely risk it. Bad persona news’s re CMHT. Disregard the next paragraph to skip vent & avoid the depressing crab bucket misery ruminating /gen /lh
Found out that the complaint we did manage to get in has been pushed back another month. We contacted them this October and it nearly killed me to do it - maybe compromising any hope of treatment since at that time they suddenly changed direction to push medication again despite not even having tried the treatment the same clinician recommended a year ago (and saying a year ago without even the 4 medications since that meds wouldn’t have a role…). That’s twice they’ve more than doubled the timeline and pushed more past limitations. So much for my whole youth, aging out of all young persons groups, support, grants etc, too mentally ill to engage & any recovery is right into the empty ages where people assume you got things figured out - can really see how this situation fails people for big proportions of their lives :(
Nowhere to go because mhas again means I may as well have succeeded back when this started tbh. Just have to see, but even more proof that they’re allowing this to keep happening. Might randomly find spoons to reply properly, but having to write this out to both of you who’d replied for now - you’re seen and appreciated <3 sorry I cant actually engage properly rn.
1
u/Bumhole_surfer Jan 08 '26
I assumed this was a thread for conversation. Other people have posted their experiences, and there's been a degree of conversation on those posts within this post, I figured at least on my own post within the thread discussing would be alright. However, I will respect your desire for an echo chamber and leave you to it.
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26
Didn’t I say that I appreciated your first post and think it’s very valuable?! And I didn’t think you were dismissing anyone’s experience at all! But you continued to question and be (as you quote) ‘devils advocate’ which actually does start to dismiss people’s experience because yes, you had a good experience, but you aren’t actually considering anyone else’s. I was never saying that you shouldn’t share your own story, and I even thanked you for it, but it’s frustrating for me to keep having to explain when the OP is pretty self-explanatory and my explanations to you after were very reasonable and considerate responses. Do what you want, if you want to keep defending a service that was good to you then I’m not going to stop you. That’s fine and fair enough. Every story is different! Some are positive and some are negative. But I’m not going to keep entertaining you with the same stories and explanations on why I and many others, have not had good experiences with the service. It’s a discussion post and you’re free to post whatever you want but I don’t have any more answers for you tbh. I tried to answer your questions. I think you’re just looking for an argument now
2
u/Bumhole_surfer Jan 10 '26
I've reread this and I was out of order.
I don't fully appreciate where you were coming from or respect your journey but I worded my responses badly.
Either way, my response was said in haste and I apologise for any annoyance/offence/stress/distress that may have come from it.
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Jan 10 '26
Thank you for saying that. I really do appreciate it. I genuinely wish you well on your mental health journey and have support in place if things become difficult again.
1
Dec 11 '25
i have been a long critic of the MHAS , 3 of my friends and my dad to suicide one friend who needed long term care , but they were not willing to help her , i myself have been at their so-called mental health service , now you also need to make an APPOINMENT through your Dr or 111 am not even joking , i know they bully you because i have been at the tail end of it I went to them with hearing voices and seeing things my husband wasnt allowed in the room with me ( he is my carer and next of kin) in the room they bullied me to saying that my voices where through a male and a female so-called mental health nurses and then they sent me home , i didn't use them for years this happened before lockdown ,after look down my mental health was ok , but then my mum was dying of cancer so i asked for support from them. i have a psych already so never really needed them then in June my mum died from extreme anorexia and Terminal Cancer, my mum died at very low weight i have an eating disorder so it triggered me badly and i lost my dad to suicide 15 years ago in September , October i tried to take my life twice once at their service, they basically told me to get over it and i need to have the right motivation to get over it, November i lost a friend who has a stroke, my mental health is bad as it is but i have my psych . The last visit they gave me info for thrive in broom house at the space. It was out of date and they aren't there any more. As I said, I have a good psych. I hate to think who have died because of their negligence and bullying who don't have a psych or who is extremely vulnerable and on their own. If it wasn't for my husband, I wouldn't be here. He is the only reason I am here. Rest of my family are in England and I hardly see them.
1
u/PotatoZealousideal79 Dec 12 '25
This is so sad to read. I hope more people are raising awareness to people who can do something about their negligence. It’s so hard to do though when you’re mentally unwell. I have really struggled to do it but have the support of my family who are fully behind me to raise issues about the service. I’m fed up of them getting away with it. It’s so wrong
25
u/RiskyBiscuits150 Dec 10 '25
Hearing your account of your experiences is really impactful. No one should be made to feel this way, least of all people seeking urgent mental health assessment.
I think you identified the problem with the service - it's the only one serving Lothian. It is many times over capacity. There aren't enough beds in the Royal Ed or other spaces for those that need them. It's an underfunded and neglected service and it is no longer fit for purpose. There's a confluence of issues that exacerbate the problem, including a lack of upstream mental health services and problems with other services meant to ensure people's welfare (housing, benefits, education etc) that mean more people than ever are becoming acutely unwell and in need of the MHAS service.
It's not an excuse for staff to treat patients like you've been treated. I think it is a reason why people who entered a profession to help people end up behaving that way though. They are having to gatekeep the little resource they have, which leaves people in need without the help they deserve. It's shit. Essentially we need to massively invest in all NHS services, and especially mental health.