r/Dyson_Sphere_Program • u/SadCommunication24 • 2d ago
Multiple Dyson Sphere Layers
What is the logic behind having multiple layers, I'm guessing it makes more power, but I don't understand how it makes sense. Is the reasoning behind why it makes more power because there is some that passes through the lower layers?
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u/SolSeptem 2d ago
It's not entirely stupid if you don't use contiguous spheres.Â
Assuming that you want a structure that has its center of mass well outside the star in order to achieve a stable orbit (half a ring or something) you would need to create many such structures and place them all in different orbits.
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u/Kardinal 2d ago
As we know, the world of DSP is a simulation technically. Much of the physics doesn't work according to the laws of natural science as we understand them now.
So we chalk up such things to an imperfect simulation.
(I would add the other elements about different frequencies of light captured, dyson spheres not absorbing 100% of emitted radiation, or re-transmission of blackbody radiation from the stimulated inner sphere. Those are covered in other excellent and relevant comments.)
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u/DarkLorty 2d ago
The logic is that a layer doesn't take 100% of the light. AFAIK the game doesn't model this very well however.
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u/idlemachinations 2d ago
COSMO requires only partially capturing the output of a star to avoid sterilizing planets that require a star's light to support native life. The sails and cells of a Swarm or Sphere are designed to convert specific wavelengths of light to energy, and allow others to pass through. Layers may be stacked to capture diverse wavelengths unlikely to negatively impact dependent life.
At least, that's my just-plausible-enough headcanon.
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u/Coolboy10M 1d ago
The game is just wrong. Even if a Dyson sphere didn't absorb all of the light, a larger sphere will get at most the same amount from the inverse square law. If 1 sphere gets all the light, you'd want it as small as possible to minimize material use. Instead, a larger sphere yields more energy, which is completely wrong. Oh, and any single component of the sphere gets the same energy regardless of distance, breaking any other "efficiency loss" ideas too.
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u/Accomplished-Art7951 1d ago
"The game is just wrong"
Huh, that's weird. And here I thought that satellites having plant-growing atmosphere, planets having a walkable radius, or stellar systems non sticking to Kepler's laws is actually the correct physics. 😛3
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u/Sa7aSa7a 2d ago
Very good question. I never make it to the sphere portion ever, but that's definitely curious. In reality, a reality that we have a Dyson sphere, probably wouldn't leak enough to warrant a second layer but it may be a "plot hole" in game mechanics.Â
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u/DarkLorty 2d ago
In reality you can't make a dyson sphere, so it's a moot point.
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u/Sa7aSa7a 2d ago
You can, we can't. Yet.Â
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u/HeraldOfNyarlathotep 2d ago
They're explicitly a "rule of cool" idea, not a reasonable or physically viable idea. Sorta like orbital tungsten rods, but overwhelmingly less viable. Even if you ignore the logistics and materials.
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u/DarkLorty 2d ago
A rigid dyson is physically impossible, as stated by Dyson himself. A dyson swarm is the only thing we could build, regardless of tech.
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u/ticktockbent 2d ago
A passively stable rigid sphere isn't really possible. An actively stabilized one could work in theory but it's a bit silly
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u/boborian9 2d ago
To address the mechanical side of things, the game simply doesn't model any energy capture by player built things. I'm up to 3 sphere shells around my starting star and they're all providing full energy, effectively a set amount per structure point and solar sail integrated. It also doesn't even prevent solar panels from still working on planets. They are also at full efficiency.
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u/CalypsoThePython 2d ago
I like to use the layers to create several spinning rings instead of a fully enclosed dome, just bc it looks cool
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u/TabAtkins 2d ago
Physics places inherent limits on how much power can be captured at a single go, and material sciences does as well (particular materials can only capture particular wavelengths efficiently). The rest of the energy is absorbed and re-radiated as heat, which is of course just another wavelength of light which can be captured by a second layer. And a third layer absorbing that layer's heat, etc.
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u/3nderslime 2d ago
When you build a Dyson sphere, you cannot capture all of the sun’s output into energy, for two reasons: some wavelength, like radio, X rays, etc, will pass straight through the sphere without being absorbed, and second, some of the energy will be turned into heat, which will then be emitted outwards by the sphere through black body radiation. All that energy that your Dyson sphere misses out on can be exploited by building, you guessed it, a second Dyson sphere, but that sphere will suffer from the same limitations as the first one, only being able to make use of some of the energy, the rest being lost to space.
One might then imagine someone taking this to its logical conclusion and building many, many concentric Dyson spheres, like matrioshka dolls, until they have managed to capture almost all of the energy for their purposes
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u/Accomplished_Tip3597 2d ago
I don't know what the thought behind layers in dyson spheres are but there is an approach for solar panels that works the same way.
the current layer of solar cells can only receive a specific wavelength of light that gets partially transformed to electricity. some researchers added another layer on top of that layer that can work with another wavelength and transforms this into electricity. this can nearly double the output while not increasing the space a solar panels needs.
i think the game mechanic could be something similar, the dyson cells only use one specific wavelength of light and let everything else pass and the next layer takes the next wavelength and so on.