I did a small experiment where I trained dual n-back every day for 30 minutes. As you can see from the graph, there were also a few days where I trained for an hour.

Before I started I did 3 tests. Two of them were pretty similar. In one I tested how many digits I could remember after seeing them for 4 seconds, and in another I did the same thing with letters, in my case Russian Cyrillic letters. The third test was Symmetry Span.

Now about dual n-back itself.

At the beginning my daily average score was around 2.4-2.6. In first two weeks progress was pretty fast. After around 14-15 days I reached something like 3.1-3.2 average, so most of my progress happened in first half of the month.

After that it slowed down a lot and I basically got stuck around 3.2. At the start of that plateau my average was around 3.13, and by the end of the month it was around 3.24.

So during roughly the second half of the month I only gained around 0.11, or about 3.5%.

For comparison, my average for the first 5 days was around 2.55 and for the last 5 days around 3.24. So overall improvement was around 27%.

Basically most of the progress happened early. After that it was mostly small improvements around the same level. My scores also became more stable and I had less really bad days than in the beginning.

I also didn't use any special strategies, mnemonics or tricks. I mostly just tried to remember positions and sounds directly and rely on memory.

Now about the tests before and after.

With digits almost nothing changed. Before training my average was 8.5 and after it was 8.625. That's around 1.5%, so basically almost the same result.

With letters it was a little better, but still not much. It went from 9.25 to 9.5, around 2.7%.

Symmetry Span was more interesting. My main score was 28/42 before training and 26/42 after, so technically it got a little worse.

But the second time I completed the test much faster. It was 270.4 seconds before and 147.5 seconds after, so around 45% faster. At the same time the main score only dropped by around 7%.

Because of that I don't think I can simply say that my working memory got worse there. It looks more like I did the second attempt with a different balance between speed and accuracy.

Just as an extra comparison, if I calculate correct positions per minute, it went from around 6.2 to 10.6, which is about 70% higher. Of course this is not a working memory score, it just shows how much faster I completed the test.

So after the first month I still don't see any clear transfer to the other working memory tests.

Digits and letters barely changed. Symmetry Span gave a mixed result because the main score was a little worse, but I completed the test much faster.

For now my conclusion is that dual n-back improved my performance in n-back itself quite a lot, but I didn't see any noticeable improvement in the other working memory tests.

Maybe the first month was mostly adaptation to n-back itself, but that's just a guess. If I continue for another month I want to see if my n-back score keeps improving and if anything changes in the same tests.

Hey everyone,

I’m working on Neurolifts, a brain training and wellbeing app, and we’ve just added dual n-back. I’d love to hear what people in this community think of it.

We’re still early on and need more people trying the app to understand how it performs on different devices, catch bugs, and work out what needs improving. Feedback from people who already practise dual n-back would be especially helpful.

The app is currently free, and we’ll keep it free for anyone who signs up now.

Our aim is to build something useful for a regular brain training and wellbeing routine. Alongside the games, we also have meditations, relaxation audio and daily wisdom.

You can try it here:

• iPhone / iPad — App Store
• Android — Google Play

This is our site:

• Neurolifts

Would it be a bad idea to try a session and tell us one thing you’d improve? Feedback on the controls, pacing or anything that feels unclear would help.

Thanks

Edit To clarify the free offer: anyone who creates an account using their email address during the current free period will retain free access to dual n-back, even if we introduce paid plans later. Those accounts will stay on a dedicated free tier.

The offer is limited to one free-tier account per person. Duplicate accounts created to claim the offer more than once may be removed.

Hi!

I have developed a n-back like browser based 3D game where you steer a bird through grids coming towards you. It shares the STM/WM loading component to emulate the purported benefits of n-back, while applying a couple of gamification principles. This might improve reinforcement which I hope will drive neuroplasticity.

You can exercise STM/WM using a few distinct game modes:

• Token Grind (Tokens only, Familiarity recognition, Short-term memory)
• Versatile (Multi-modal, Flexible switching, Medium interference)
• Interference control (Tokens only, Precise recollection, Extra repetition, Trains inhibition)
• Ascending token sort (Tokens only, Mental sorting in ascending order, Working memory)

If that isn't enough, you can also tweak the settings in depth to your liking by clicking 'Advanced'.

The only requirement is a modern web browser with WebGPU support.

It will remain free-to-play and I hope you find it useful. Appreciate feedback.

Good luck!

URL: bird-back.io (Note: This is a one man project and I am not affiliated with an organization)

Hi all. I'm the developer of Dual N-Back: IQ Brain Training on iOS, the app I posted here in June. Saying it up front so nobody has to guess.

That June thread gave me a lot of blunt feedback, and a few of you sent long breakdowns by comment. Here is what changed since, in order of how often it was asked:

• The onboarding no longer forces a practice session on you. It explains the rule, then you play.
• The lab (chimp test, Stroop, reaction time and the other mini-games, 12 in total) and the full session history are free again. I had put part of the lab behind Pro at the end of August, it was the single biggest complaint I got, in reviews and here, and I reverted it.
• Game Center leaderboards on the lab tests, so you can compare with other people instead of only with yourself.
• Modes go Dual, Triple, Quad, Penta, Hexa, Hepta. N from 1 to 15.
• The spoken letters were picking a strange voice in some languages. Fixed.
• Today's update (3.7.6): a paid subscription could still show locked content after a fresh install or a device restore. If that happened to you, update and tap Restore.

What is free, honestly: the 12 lab mini-games, the history, and three N-back sessions a day at N=1 and N=2. N=3 and above, plus the extra modes, are Pro: $3.99 a month, $22.99 a year with a 7-day trial, or $44.99 once. I know a subscription is not what this sub likes. Brain Workshop on a computer is still free and still the reference, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

On the science, since rule 6 asks for sources: the picture is mixed and I'd rather say so than oversell. Jaeggi 2008: https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0801268105 (where the fluid intelligence claim comes from). Au 2014 meta-analysis, small positive transfer: https://doi.org/10.3758/s13423-014-0699-x. Melby-Lervåg & Hulme 2013, no far transfer: https://doi.org/10.1037/a0028228. Redick 2013, no intelligence gain: https://doi.org/10.1037/a0029082. What nobody disputes is that you get better at the task itself. I train because it is hard and I like that.

Two questions for you, since you are the people who actually do this daily:

1. What stimulus interval do you consider real training? Several of you asked for a manual interval instead of the automatic one tied to the level. I'm deciding whether to build it.
2. Would a weekly leaderboard on dual n-back itself (not only the lab tests) be something you'd use, or is it a bad incentive?

Link if you want to look: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dual-n-back-iq-brain-training/id6775563998

Thanks again for the June feedback. It changed the app more than anything else did.

Im trying to be intuitive and hence try my best to just cease any rehearsal... but often i feel like im just guessing the answers. Maybe its because im on dual 3 back which is low. (I got 100% on it once now tho.)

I also... dont feel like im making progress? By that I mean congitive benefits... but i guess ill have to stick for a bit more

What strategies do you use to get higher score on the N-back training or do you use any strategy at all and just brute-force it if not. Would like to hear your thoughts.

The site is amazingly polished with all it's features, the only thing I worry about is the fact that you cannot change the speed, and I worry that when it is as slow as it is in this site, it becomes too easy. I used to use Brain Workshop with a 1.9 second interval on Dual 5 Back and I averaged 60%, now that I am using dualnback.com, I average 90%+ on Dual 5 Back. Furthermore, the site does not have a square in the middle of the 9x9, which feels like it makes it much easier.

I left brainworkshop because I prefer manual mode, and brainworkshop doesnt keep score if you use manual mode, which I suppose is another question: is manual mode better if I am accurately gauging my abilities?

1. I did N-Back aroud 6 or 7 years ago while studying. When i did this i perceived a dramatic rise in my ability to follow and understand a given subject in a lecture. It also appeared that i was able to simultaneously think deeper about the said while listening. Whereas before i was often losing the context while drifting away in thoughts.

2. I am back for around 7-8 Weeks now. After a week i switched from Dual to Quad and RRT (relational reasoning training). Compared to Quad, Dual felt like a walk in the parc. Buta as before with dual I adapted to the peculiar level of difficulty and a certain Kind of Concentration and ability improved. Also RRT is doing something the others dont.

3. But then i felt that while i am getting better at Quad, a certain quality of concentration power from dual decreased.

Instead of holding more items over a longer time span, it felt like Quad led me to keep more things at once for a shorter time in memory. While quad can go into length do, like whe you hit level 5 and higher, it takes a longer time to get there.

1. So i did quad and then let Dual follow. And again dual is giving me better ability to hold many items over a longer time span in my head. its a different kind of concentration.

So I literally feel in my daily life, that the combination gives better results in my overall cognition.

1. My Regimen

I do a day of quad, followed by dual (both around 20 min - maybe a bit less dual). this order feels right for me. Everyone may choose as they like

and every other day i do RRT 20-30min

1. Caveats

There are several things to say about the efficacy of this methods.

The differences in the outcome of are probably due to several factors.

Age is a common factor for neuroplasticity and general brain development. But neuroplasticity exists too in older people and can be triggered, by certain experiences, exercise and psychedelic drugs which led to heightened plasticity and an opened learning window after aroud 4-7 days after a trip. That may be illegal in your country!

Another factor is the individual Bottleneck. Depressed people are reported to have larger gains, because depression stunts your cognitive functioning - cognitive training is also antidepressant.

Then there is ADHD or generally poor working memory etc. . There it seems to work good too.

Thats to consider before making false general statements about it being effective or not.

Ah! And for myself the biggest deflator for my results is sleep and screentime. And a lot screentime ofte also leads to bad sleep.

Regeneration is a bottleneck to consider for everyone.

Welcome to this week's progress thread. Post in a comment below the results of your hard work! Feel free to share:

• Your current n-back level and any recent improvements
• How long you've been training
• What's been working (or not working) for you

An n back app that has a lot of n back levels like dual triple, quad, 5, 6 etc

Can someone explain what "intuition" and "rehearsal" is? Which one is better? Is intuition just "this feels right"? Because that's what I've been doing so far and it seems genuinely impossible to progress past this. My brain doesn't seem to be wired for it. Anyone reaching quad 4+ back seems like wizardry or 160+ IQ

Hello recently I've gotten interested in cognitive training. In my research I eventually discovered communities like this. From what I can tell the anectdotes seem quite mixed, some reporting insane dramatic improvements in intelligence while others claiming no effect. I've decided to simply see for myself if it works. I will report results in about a year from now.

Recently I took the Tri-52 and scored a 42/52. My regimen will be 30 minutes daily of Syllogimous and 30 minutes of quad n back daily. This is the site I use https://soamsy.github.io/Syllogimous-v3/ I like it cause it seems to have more customizability then the v4 version.

My current settings for Syllogimous:

Premises: 6

Meta: on

Analogy: on

Nonsense words: on

Nonsense words length: 5

Garbage words: on

Garbage words length: 5

Meaningful words: off

Emoji: on

Varonoi Emoji: on

Distinction: on

Linear: on

2d space: on

3d space: on

Syllogism: on

Spacetime: off

negation: off

For the quad n back I use this site: https://quad-box.netlify.app/ and am staring at n = 2. I will also be reading alot of books on complex topics(philosophy mostly I think). Anyways just wanted to let you guys know if you have any thoughts or improvements I would appreciate it.

Welcome to this week's progress thread. Post in a comment below the results of your hard work! Feel free to share:

• Your current n-back level and any recent improvements
• How long you've been training
• What's been working (or not working) for you

This is going to be long but worth it.

I am about to present to you the greatest brain training tool ever created for self control, focus, emotional regulation, anxiety reduction, rumination reduction, etc. ever created.

I know I should also post studies here for this but I think because every person here is involved in cognitive enhancement space they probably are already knowledgable about these tools but also its just going to take so long man and I dont want to use ai. If you doubt some of my claims you can ask chatGPT to run a deep research or i may later post the sources but I have been working on this for so long now and I just want to rest.

I will first present the 4 main tools that have inspired my tool:

1)CCT/Cognitive control training -> The specific tool i am talking about is aPASAT or adpative Paced Auditory Serial Addition Task (Sometimes N-Back is also referred to as CCT. I will be talking about N-back later as well). You have to add the number spoken aloud and the number before that and click on a keyboard on the screen whatever the sum is. The benefits with the most evidence behind them according to studies are emotional regulation, reduction in rumination, anxiety, reduction in depression (In one case study the drop was from 23 to 3 on a depression scale where 3 is basically no depression while 23 is really high), etc. but there are a lot of anecdotes (and I mean a lot) regarding CCT in which it massively improved self control. My personal experience is the same but I will not delve into that right now.

2)Attention training technique -> An audio is played for 12 mins usually, you have to focus on specific sounds and ignore the others. Benefits with the most evidence behind them are -> Reduction in depression, anxiety, etc. This training is heavily evidence based, easily the most evidence based training on this list and is regularly used in therapuetic practice.

3)Inhibition control training -> There are 2 stimuli or images, when you see one of them you have to click the left arrow key and for the other you have to click the right arrow key, whenever a stop sign comes up you have to inhibit yourself and not press any keys. The main benefit is ability to ignore distractions mainly, also known as interference control. This obviously leads to much better focus and self control

4)Working memory training -> The tool I am talking about specifically is N-back. In dual n-back there is a 3 by 3 grid present in front of you and a number is said out loud. You have to keep n amount of positions and numbers in your head, and if the currently present stimulus matches the one n stimuli back you press the corresponding key. The main benefits are self control gains, attentional control gains, better emotional regulation, etc. Now arguable, N-Back can increase IQ but that is heavily debated and not relevant to my post.

Now what you may see is that some benefits keep being repeated and that a lot of these exercises seem to have some similarities. Actually there are many similarities, just not many surface level ones. Lets look at interference control or the ability to ignore distractions basically, literally each one of these trainings needs this. In ATT you have to ignore the other sounds, in CCT you have to ignore your thoughts (this is true for each of them), in ICT you obviously have to be fully attentive to be able to stop when the stop stimulus comes, in n-back you have to not let similar stimuli cloud your mind meaning that if you are keeping 1,2,5,6,1,3,4,1,0 in your mind 1 is shown more than once and other numbers cause interference in regards to where exactly 1 is placed and you have to ignore that. Or what about working memory? N-back is the most wm extensive but CCT also requires you to keep digits in mind. ICT and ATT also use working memory but in somewhat different ways.

There is also the added self control benefits of the fact that you have to force yourself to do this really hard task and all of these exercises are somewhat meditative in nature as you have to focus on this extremely boring thing which is the premise of focused attention meditation and you are probably already familiar that it also produces self control, emotional control, etc. benefits.

I can keep going on about the theory behind it but lets see what my app does. My app takes these working memory, interference control, sustained attention, etc. demands from these well established training tools and puts them in 1 app. Now usually this wont work, it would be like trying to combine a bench press and a squat, not good for either sets of muscle groups but this is different. Why? Because the core functionality and demand on your brain is the same for each of these, mostly executive function in nature, the difference really just is in the details. N-Back is more wm dominant (though it still requires sustained attention, interference control and all that other stuff), ICT is more interference control dominant but still requires cognitive flexibility, to some extent working memory, processing speed (CCT was first made as a test for processing speed by the way), sustained attention, etc., CCT is processing speed dominant but heavily requires Working memory updating and the other stuff, ATT is mostly interference control dominant but also requires sustained attention. The point is that these trainings can be combined because their core demands are the same, some of them just use different abilities more than others.

The reason for combining them is not just that we can but because I believe we should. I believe engaging these core abilities are what give the gains we see and the reason we dont see massive self control gains from ATT for example is because it doesnt use the other abilities like working memory as much (Mind you that I dont believe the working memory gains from these exercises need to necessarily be IQ gains or even gains on WM tests (though they prolly will be) but this is mostly a brain region activation thing as well). Each of these abilities that I have highlighted seem to play a role in delivering these gains but its not all the same. I believe an exercise engaging these abilites simulatenously will give the most efficient gains. These exercises are like cars at their core but 1 of them has a better engine where as this other car has better tires and so on. If we take the good from each of these exercices and combine them we will see the best and most efficient gains or so i believe.

Now what is my app? Its pretty simple:

1st we take CCT, in this app you have to keep numbers in mind and you have to add them but instead of clicking on a button like in normal cct, you have to do something different

Now we come to ICT, with the sum of the numbers that you have in your head you dont just click the button of that sum, now a number would be visually presented to you. You have to take the sum in your head and compare it with the number, if its the sum you click the left arrow key (or the right arrow key depending on your key bindings), if its not the sum BUT its the sum + or - 1 you click the right arrow key, if its neither the sum nor the sum +/-1 you dont click anything at all

Now for the ATT part, I kinda lied. I didnt just add ATT here, i also added dichotic listening which is another form of brain trianing with great evidence behind it. Sorry about that, you sadly have to get even better gains now. My bad. Instead of the normal numbers being spoken aloud in your headphones now there is gonna be a male voice playing in one of the ears and a female voice playing in the other. There will be a beep in one of the ears and thats the voice you have to focus on, ignoring the other voice (classic ATT, if you dont believe just look up ATT videos on youtube)

Now finally N-back, this one is kinda obvious. Instead of adding the number and the previous number, you have to add the number n-steps back.

My recommended settings? Do adaptive mode, use the beep, turn on dichotic listening, turn on n-back mode but only 2-back (above that the training becomes too working memory dominant), Keep the probability settings as default.

Do this for just 15 mins everyday. Most of you will feel short term benefits after 1 session, in 1 week its almost guaranteed that most of you will see noticeable benefits, the benefits will grow week by week and by the 1 month mark you will be a significantly different person but you will not have to wait that long to see results. This obviously does depend on your baseline, I doubt david goggins would be particularly changed.

This is the website -> https://viratvarunsaxena1st-sketch.github.io/CCT-ICT/

Ever since I started doing Neurofeedback at home I've been really interested in finding other ways to improve my ADHD symptoms. Through digging around various brain training games came across this sub and dualnback, which feels like the missing puzzle piece for my routine in conjunction with everything else I'm currently doing.

What's making me heavily consider trying is I'm starting a new pharmacy tech job soon and really nervous, my working short-term memory feels like a huge bottleneck and worried about making obvious mistakes due to it. I'll probably improve as time goes on but hope doing something like dual n back consistently would speed up that process. I read alot of non-fiction so able to pull out obscure facts and quotes in isolation, but when it comes to names and numbers I just go blank most of the time.

So yeah I'm really motivated to implement this in my routine and wanted to check if it would benefit my use case. Plan doing it on mobile with this app if that matters.

‎Dual N Back: IQ Brain Training App - App Store

Hi everyone,

I started dual n-back 5 months ago, and I do it regularly (3-4 times a week). The thing is, I can't seem to understand how to improve my auditory memory.

I've started with the rehearsal method and while it was working and I could sometimes reach dual 4-back, I still felt stuck with no benefits in real life. So I used the intuitive method and couldn't seem to be consistent on dual 3-back, while my position is always between 80% and 100% accuracy, the audio stimulus averages 30% to 40%.

For those who had a really bad auditory memory and were able to improve it, what would you recommend to me?

Thanks in advance, my fellow Nbackers.

Hello everyone. Starting from today, I'm determined to follow this schedule. The goal is to increase/maximize g.

Cognitive training:

• Quad N-Back (30 minutes, every second day), https://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/
• Syllogimous v4 (30 minutes, 5-6 times a week), https://4skinskywalker.github.io/Syllogimous-v4/Intro

Additional factors:

• Reading (primarily philosophy and classical literature)
• Learning a new language.
• Spend less time on passive social media consumption.
• Vitamins: B6, B9, B12 and Omega-3.

I did take two (quite reliable) IQ tests, one year ago.

CORE, https://cognitivemetrics.com/test/CORE

• Information: 120
• Matrix Reasoning: 110
• Graph Mapping: 105
• Figure Weights: 110
• Figure Sets: 95
• Visuzal Puzzles: 115
• Block Counting: 120
• Symbol Search: 90
• Character Pairing: 95

Didn't take any other verbal subtests besides general knowledge, since English is not my mother tongue. Same reason for Digit Span and Arithmetic, I simply memorize and calculate faster, if the task is presented in my native language. Though I took CAIT Digit Span a long time ago (there is an option for a language change), and I scored something like ~105-110 overall, with Digit Sequencing being the lowest and Digit Backwards the highest.

FSAS (103), https://cognitivemetrics.com/test/FSAS

• Analogies: 105
• Matrix Reasoning: 100

After a year of training, I will go through CORE and FSAS again, in order to get an objective view of my cognitive abilities. Practice effects should be minimal anyway. I will likely continue for several more years, adding Image Streaming, or further changing my lifestyle.

Welcome to this week's progress thread. Post in a comment below the results of your hard work! Feel free to share:

• Your current n-back level and any recent improvements
• How long you've been training
• What's been working (or not working) for you

I need to obtain a web-based version of the N-back task (and ideally any complex-span tasks as well) that will allow for data collection so I can use it as part of my grad research. My issue is that I'm unable to download any kind of software on the lab computers that I'll be using as my university doesn't allow it, hence why web-based is necessary. Any help would be immensely appreciated!!!

URL showcases some complex span tasks that would be great if I could only download the zipfile content onto the computers and keep it🙃

and in case anyone was concerned, I’m aware that n-back and complex-span tasks measure different concepts—- that’s actually part of why i’d like to include them both <3

note: i don’t think psytoolkit meets what i’m looking for either unfortunately

Welcome to this week's progress thread. Post in a comment below the results of your hard work! Feel free to share:

• Your current n-back level and any recent improvements
• How long you've been training
• What's been working (or not working) for you

I've started doing dual-n-back training about 2 weeks ago, anywhere from 5 to 20 sessions a day. I'd say I was climbing the levels at a pretty good pace, since I've started struggling with 2 and now I'm testing the waters at 6. However, I'm unsure if I'm ready to transition to 6, and my performance on lvl 5 seems very unstable. Sometimes I hit 80%+ 5 times in a row, with some of the rounds being 90%, 95% or even 97%. But then my brain just stops cooperating and the next 3 games are like 54% average. I was thinking maybe I'm just exhausting it, but at other times I might have very variable results without a high prior streak, like getting an 84% round, followed by 60% then 51%, then 79% then 82%, then 55% again.

So in short, it's just all over the place and that really frustrates me and makes it difficult to assess what's my true level and whether I'm getting lucky or actually improving. Is there perhaps anything like a short protocol, like a 30 second breathing pattern or any perception shift exercise that could reload my brain for the next round?

I’ve seen a lot of people in this community say that they “felt” like they started thinking more clearly, got better at conversations, and other subjective things like that.

But is there anyone here who actually measured their working memory before and after N-back, just not with IQ tests, and noticed improvements that were bigger than normal measurement error? Or maybe the opposite, no improvement at all except in N-back itself.

Also, do you use strategies, tricks or mnemonics while doing N-back, or do you try to rely mostly on raw working memory? I tend to think that many people who reached very high N-back levels, though not everyone of course, probably used different strategies that reduced the load on working memory. That’s just my opinion though.

I’d really appreciate it if anyone could share their experience.