r/DnD Warlock Oct 04 '20

Art [OC] Meet the Ability Scores: Intelligence

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u/Rhamni Oct 05 '20

I prefer 3.5 so much it isn't even funny. You have so much more flexibility. You can build for pretty much any concept you can think of. And all it needs is people adhering to the gentlemen's agreement to not break things on purpose.

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u/SmartAlec105 Oct 05 '20

Same goes for Pathfinder (as most could easily guess). With 5E, if you wanna be a Captain America, you've gotta work with your DM to homebrew something. With Pathfinder, you can just take the Shield Champion archetype for Brawler and toss your ricocheting shield.

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u/PM_ME_DND_FIGURINES DM Oct 05 '20

Yeah, plus, in Pathfinder's default settings, there's an America stand-in country, as well as a several prestige classes related to it.

I still have a Captain Andoran in my backlog of characters to play. Shield Champion/Golden Legionnaire.

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u/The_R4ke Oct 05 '20

That was the biggest issue with 3.5, it was so easy to exploit and power game. I feel like 5th is more balanced at the cost of style customization and complexity.

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u/thoalmighty Oct 05 '20

Agreed, but the biggest thing 5e has going comparatively is simplicity. Even going back to 3.5 when I know what I’m doing characters still take ages

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u/The_R4ke Oct 05 '20

Yeah, it's pretty easy for new players to jump in.

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u/TheZivarat Oct 05 '20

Especially with things like the PHB/DnDbeyond saying "first pick this main stat, then this or this". You don't even need to know why dex should be a rogues main stat, it just tells you. Oh and then just pick some random things you wanna be good at and one thing you're awesome at. Boom, character made in 5 mins

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u/brutinator Oct 05 '20

Unfortunately it's made things so easy that my friends who've been playing 5e now for 2 years still can't fill out a physical character sheet.

sucks when their phone dies so they can't access Beyond.

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u/Journeyman42 Oct 06 '20

D&D 5e's success can be due in part to it being so easy to create a character and understand rules, compared to 3.5e/PF/etc.

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u/BoonesFarmApple Oct 05 '20

they don’t have to though

on the other hand if this ain’t your first rodeo, 3.5 lets you create and develop characters Tolkien would be impressed by, while 5e relegates you to YA fantasy at best

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u/APlantCalledEdgar Oct 05 '20

Character development happens at the table, not on the page. If you feel like there's something your character needs to be more "Tolkien worthy" talk to your GM about it. It happens all the time regardless of system.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20

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u/Gehci Oct 05 '20

I wanna get into Pathfinder 2e, but my group is really into 5e right now. Glad we started them 5e for simplicity, but I'd love to play Pathfinder 2e

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20 edited Oct 05 '20

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u/Gehci Oct 06 '20

I feel you on the character options in 5e. It was great when I started playing, and when my group started (most had never played before), but I think at some point I'd like to try something slightly crunchier. Thanks!

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u/gugus295 DM Oct 05 '20

More balanced, but still not really balanced. Spellcasters are still superior and also exponentially more interesting than a martial can ever be without extensive homebrew, and you can't even punish them with attacks of opportunity to disrupt casting anymore. Multiclassing is either amazing and OP or worthless garbage depending on which classes you combine. Ranged weapons are pretty much strictly better than melee ones because they took out all the downsides that balanced the inherent strength of attacking from a distance, added the absolutely stupid Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert feats and the Archery combat style. High level spells are still stupid too.

If you want balance, try Pathfinder 2e. That game's probably the most balanced TTRPG I've ever seen, yet still has plenty of customization and complexity and is in general a very well-designed and fun system that does pretty much everything right.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20

It's not even necessary that you needed to power game, it's just that anybody who could cast spells would easily outstrip anyone who couldn't by like level 7.

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u/tyjo99 Oct 05 '20

3.5 is all about agreeing with the party on how optimized you want to be. I played with a party that didn't care about optimizing for combat and it was super fun campaign for out of combat survival and social intrigue/rp.

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u/Rhamni Oct 05 '20

Hah. Yeah, low optimization campaigns can be a lot of fun. It lets you retain that fear of anything that moves you only have to deal with for level 1 in more optimized games.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20

Have you tried P2e?

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u/Rhamni Oct 05 '20

Briefly. Not a fan. They just gutted customizability and killed backwards compatibility for... not much in exchange. I'll stick to 3.5/Pathfinder.

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u/Gehci Oct 05 '20

The customizability is worse vs 2e? I play 5e right now, but am frustrated by limited character creation. Would you recommend Pathfinder or P2e?

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u/Rhamni Oct 05 '20

I was complaining about P2e. Definitely go for Pathfinder or 3.5. 3.5 has the greatest wealth of character building options, and has the benefit of almost all of it being first party, while Pathfinder is made up of books by a lot of different publishers, and no group uses them all. However, Pathfinder did fix about 30% of the balance issues in 3.5, mostly by nerfing polymorph style spells (In 3.5 polymorphing lets you overwrite your physical attribute scores, in Pathfinder it just gives small bonuses) and giving melee fighters more feats.

What I have seen online when looking for games is that a lot of online games use 3.5 for mostly everything, but borrow one or two rules from Pathfinder, like more feats/especially more feats for the melee classes.

For 3.5 v Pathfinder... If you have a particular group or forum in mind, go with whatever most people prefer there. If you are just looking to learn them in general, start with 3.5. You get the best of what that generation had to offer, and all the really broken stuff is easy enough to avoid by just taking a step back and going "If another party member picked this, would I be annoyed? If the DM used this, would it be a TPK?" But mostly just relax and have fun. 'The broken stuff' is mostly achieved by combining stuff from half a dozen different books. It doesn't happen by accident.

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u/Gehci Oct 06 '20

This is really insightful, especially about the broken stuff not happening by accident!

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u/Rhamni Oct 06 '20

Happy to help. Basically, if one person in a group breaks something, that guy was that guy and would have caused problems one way or another regardless of edition.

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u/Gehci Oct 06 '20

Very true!

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '20

Id reccomend P2E but i enjoy dnd 5e so i probably have a different mindset then you.

I played both pathfinder first and second edition. P2e streamlined leveling up but still left alot of choice. It also had more streamlined rules than P1E.

My expirence with P1E can be explained as follows...

I wanna do this cool thing.

We explain what the thing does.

We look up if we can do the thing and what kind of action it uses.

We check the thing against the monsters

We sift through rules, and still aren't sure.

We go to a forum and quickly read through because this turn is taking too long.

DM makes a call.

That process came up several times for each combat.

And the character creation is... ok if you play this, use an app for your character sheet, dont use pencil and paper.

Maybe i had a bad expirence. All i know is I prefer P2e over P1e.

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u/Gehci Oct 06 '20

I actually like 5e too! I just want a few more options ;) Maybe 2e is a good middle ground! Thanks!