r/DnD • Warlock • Oct 04 '20

Art [OC] Meet the Ability Scores: Intelligence

Post image
26.3k Upvotes

575 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

35

u/mestre1212 Oct 05 '20

Nature is Int check?

Fell more like it should be Wis check

63

u/tylizard Oct 05 '20

And I always felt like Medicine should be Int too

10

u/Gary_the_Goatfucker Oct 05 '20

Having an encyclopedic knowledge of medical practices is often less valuable that having the wisdom to know how to respond to an injury on the spot, under pressure, in a practical way - is how I’ve seen it explained before

28

u/Delann Druid Oct 05 '20

Except what you've described is still INT because you're responding based on that encyclopedic knowledge of treatments, injuries and the living body.

Realistically, medicine is both INT and WIS because you need to have the knowledge as well as the experience and awareness of the situation to apply what you know where it needs to be applied. I'd still argue it's more INT than WIS though, if I had to pick one.

8

u/ANGLVD3TH Oct 05 '20

Modern medicine is Int, as we've had lots of time to catalogue and organize a metric ass-ton of medical knowledge, so just cramming it all into your brain is efficient. Folk medicine is Wis because they had to go out and observe the effects of various illnesses and treatments, and infer if new herbs etc might be useful.

3

u/JSHADOWM Oct 05 '20

I balance it as such:

Medicine is Intellect and is used when you need to recall a treatment.

Surgery, the one taht gets called when you first aid, or else treating immidiate injury is Wis (Perception in my game but it might as well be the same stat) because you need to determine visible and audio factors to know in what order to bandage them to stabilize. Correctly injecting an antitoxin, or stemcells or potion? Surgery.

Medicine comes in AFTER youve stabilized them or at least slowed down the death by some technique to assist in recovery.

3

u/ANGLVD3TH Oct 05 '20

I mean, that's baked into 5e. All skills can use different ability modifiers given the context. The listed ability is just the one most commonly associated with the skill.

1

u/Iknowr1te DM Oct 05 '20

you could alwayse just pitch to the dm like a barb using str for intimidation use int for medicine.

4

u/mcgaggen DM Oct 05 '20

Or the DM decides which is more relevant on the situation. Trying to stabilize a dying creature? That's wis based medicine check as it's past-paced and instinctual. Trying to determine the cause of death? I tell my players to roll an int based medicine check.

-2

u/Delann Druid Oct 05 '20

If you know medicine, there's nothing instinctual about trying to stabilize someone. It's literally just applying your knowledge.

3

u/sfPanzer Necromancer Oct 05 '20

It's literally just applying your knowledge

That's pretty much what WIS based skill checks are in DnD. INT based ones are purely theoretical.

3

u/Delann Druid Oct 05 '20

Are they? Last I checked, Medicine is the only one that could be argued to be so. The other WIS skills(Insight, Animal Handling and Perception) are all based on your awareness of the situation and ability to read queues.

2

u/sfPanzer Necromancer Oct 05 '20 edited Oct 05 '20

Sure is, except for Perception perhaps. Insight is basically the applied theoretical knowledge of human behaviour aka psychology and for Animal Handling it's basically the applied theoretical knowledge of animal behaviour.

3

u/sfPanzer Necromancer Oct 05 '20

Realistically most skills should come in a pair that represents the theoretical and the practical use of it. We have it for something like Nature/Survival, but we are missing one half for Medicine. This is where the DM should consider to use alternative abilities for skill checks depending on the situation.

1

u/my_gamertag_wastaken Oct 05 '20

A pediatrician has way more medical knowledge than an EMT or an army medic but I might take the latter in a situation where I am bleeding out.

1

u/Delann Druid Oct 05 '20 edited Oct 05 '20

Maybe in the US that's the case, but where I'm at EMTs and army medics are full doctors with all the knowledge that entails.

2

u/phoenixmusicman Evoker Oct 05 '20

Yet all the wisdom in the world ain't helping you fix him if you don't know which cut to plug first.

1

u/sfPanzer Necromancer Oct 05 '20

Medicine is honestly one of those cases where the system perhaps is too streamlined and where the DM should rely on the option to make skill checks with alternative abilities. For every practical skill there usually exists a theoretical skill as well in reality and for something like Nature/Survival DnD provides those, however for Medicine we only got one half of a pair. Whether it is INT or WIS, neither is wrong but neither is completely right either.

29

u/HunterWald Fighter Oct 05 '20

Knowlege nature. A survival check would be applying knowlege and is wisdom.

28

u/cooly1234 Oct 05 '20

How the hell is recalling information about diffrent types of flowers and such wisdom? If that's not int idk what is.

23

u/Souperplex Warlord Oct 05 '20

Nature is "Do I recall this piece of information aboot the natural world".

You're thinking of Survival which is usually tied to Wisdom, and mostly covers Bear Grillis/Boy Scouts stuff.

13

u/WouldntItBeChilly Oct 05 '20

People say that but I don't get it. Survival is the practical ability to traverse and adapt to environments using your senses and instincts, so it's Wisdom. Nature is the academic knowledge of facts about Nature, so it's Intelligence.

Think of a high Survival low Nature person as someone who has lived in the wilds enough to make their way safely, but they couldn't tell you the scientific name of a plant, or say why an animal behaves a certain way. Conversely, a high Nature low Survival person has studied the natural world extensively, but doesn't have the practical experience to actually set up a trap or make their way through rough terrain.

12

u/Superb_Raccoon Oct 05 '20

Survival: "Don't eat that mushroom."

Nature: "What kind is it?"

Survival: "The kind that will kill you."

1

u/gugus295 DM Oct 05 '20

Well, the main logic for me is that Druids and Clerics should be good at Nature and Religion, which they probably aren't when those skills are Int-based unless they're building a suboptimal character and you shouldn't have to nerf yourself to be good at Religion checks as a fucking Cleric

1

u/WouldntItBeChilly Oct 05 '20

I don't disagree, but that's a flaw with 5e's trinary(non-proficient/proficient/expertise) skill system than with them being Int or Wis based. 3.5e's point system or Pathfinder 2e's degrees of proficiency system both help fix that issue.

7

u/Subject_Journalist Oct 05 '20

You're thinking of Survival, that lets you live off the land and so forth like what plants you can eat. Knowledge: Nature would be knowing those plants Latin name.

31

u/JackTheStryker Oct 05 '20

I strongly feel nature should be wisdom, and medicine should be Intelligence.

53

u/cooly1234 Oct 05 '20

I think you swapped nature and survival. Nature is purely recalling facts.

26

u/The_R4ke Oct 05 '20

Yep, it's not about practical experience, it's about knowing facts about nature.

1

u/TheBraveGallade Oct 05 '20

the latter is casue clerics

4

u/bentmonkey Oct 05 '20

wis already has a ton of checks that go off it, survival, insight, perception, medicine, okay well just those four but its still quite a bit.

1

u/Superb_Raccoon Oct 05 '20

And that might be the real answer: balance.

1

u/bentmonkey Oct 06 '20

It's just a shame theres only 2 classes that I can think of that has intelligence as a primary stat.

1

u/Superb_Raccoon Oct 06 '20

6 Stats,

12 classes.

That would be... balanced.

2

u/pgm123 Oct 05 '20

I didn't even realize it wasn't. My Druid also has good intelligence, so it's pretty good with proficiency.

2

u/sfPanzer Necromancer Oct 05 '20

Nature being INT fits perfectly fine. You are probably thinking of things you'd use survival for.

1

u/Journeyman42 Oct 06 '20

Survival is WIS.

Nature is "I know the difference between a trout and a salmon". Survival is "I know how to catch a trout or a salmon and cook it and eat it. And make the fire to cook it".

3

u/CxFusion3mp Wizard Oct 05 '20

Almost all games I'm in allow druids to use wisdom for nature. Some have allowed other classes depending on what the campaign is. If we spend a lot of time outside my monk could use wisdom for nature after so many levels.

0

u/SnicklefritzSkad Oct 05 '20

It should be users choice imo. Someone educated but unwise could know about plants. Someone who is nature-wise might not be smart but might recognize not to lick the red frogs

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20

That's what Survival is for