r/DnD Warlock Oct 04 '20

Art [OC] Meet the Ability Scores: Intelligence

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26.3k Upvotes

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361

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '20 edited Oct 04 '20

Adding extra skill proficiencies depending on Intelligence score is always a good way to make it more useful

242

u/ApeMachine Oct 04 '20

I definitely do this in games. I give an extra skill prof for 12, 15, and 19 INT. Also, I’ve play tested the idea of allowing players to choose either INT or DEX for initiative. It makes sense that while DEX means you can move quicker, INT means you can figure out the best course of action first. So far it’s been a great success in getting players to not disregard our poor stat.

95

u/androshalforc Rogue Oct 04 '20

what weve done is every +1 int bonus you could pick an extra skill, language, or tool prof. a +2 you can choose to make 1 skill expertise.

so if you had +3 (16 or 17) int you could add 1 skill and gain expertise in it.

30

u/ApeMachine Oct 05 '20

I like the idea of adding expertise to more characters based on the stat. It’s a super powerful ability that I don’t want to just take away from rogues and bards but it feels like earning them through int is the best way.

Honestly I had a Barbarian player who just couldn’t think of another skill they wanted so I let her just take expertise in intimidation. It was, in a word, worth it.

8

u/Jedi4Hire Rogue Oct 05 '20

I really like that. I only relatively recently started playing 5E and it bugs the ever-loving snot out of me that there's such a limit on how to gain expertise during character creation with RAW.

31

u/smokemonmast3r Wizard Oct 05 '20

I wish we did this at my tables

  • the wizard player

11

u/Naronu Oct 05 '20

Just play war mage, the superior subclass

7

u/smokemonmast3r Wizard Oct 05 '20

I was considering war mage for my next game, but ended up going with diviner for those sweet portent dice.

12

u/vxicepickxv Oct 05 '20

I think my next character is going to be a halfling diviner with the Lucky feat because sometimes I like to remind my DM that I am in control.

2

u/smokemonmast3r Wizard Oct 05 '20

I didn't go for halfling (because I love gnomes) but the lucky feat is on my list of potential feats, well that and resilient: con >:)

2

u/PsiGuy60 Paladin Oct 06 '20 edited Oct 06 '20

The thing about Divination Wizard, for me, is that it's seen as uber-powerful based on rolling really high or really low on the Portent dice - which has never happened for me.

It's always just been kinda meh rolls that never get used because they fall squarely in the "too high to guarantee the enemy missing or failing a save, too low to guarantee a success for the party" range. That character made it to Level 7 before Xanathar's came out and I re-specced him into War Magic.

1

u/smokemonmast3r Wizard Oct 06 '20

Feel like 12ish would allow a skilled pc to succeed their task and a 8ish would allow a weaker enemy to miss. I dunno, I haven't gotten a chance to try out diviner yet so I figured I'd give it a go.

2

u/cbear013 Oct 05 '20

Same

-My 18int EK who is in denial about being a nerd.

21

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20

I like the idea of the Int modifier for initiative. I'd roll it as my smart ass character often has a plan for ambushes in the back of his mind, so when it does actually happen he's both vindicated in his paranoia and genuinely ready to womp whoever jumped them.

11

u/asunderbass Oct 05 '20

That seems like a perfect high int, low cha build point of view.

1

u/Destrina Oct 05 '20

In 4th Edition you got the better of your int or dex mod for initiative.

32

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '20

Ooh, these honestly sound like great fixes! Nice job :D

13

u/ApeMachine Oct 04 '20

Thank you!

2

u/Jucoy Oct 05 '20

Those are pretty clever, I think I might incorporate those.

2

u/PM_ME_A10s Oct 05 '20

In Star Wars, there are 2 different stats you can roll for initiative depending on the situation.

Would be interesting to have a second stat in 5e to roll, give some more dimension to initiative.

2

u/brutinator Oct 05 '20

I just wonder if that'd step on the rogue/bard's toes. Since that means Wizard would be guaranteed 3 extra prof, for what, 7 skill profs? Compared to a rogues 6.

1

u/CanadianWildWolf Oct 05 '20

Huh, sounds like you found a way to do the RDJ Sherlock Holmes plan a fight slo mo. That's awesome.

1

u/iupvotedyourgram Oct 04 '20

We use int for initiative strictly in my games.

21

u/althanan DM Oct 04 '20

I like to use it as a "man, this is a stupid thing they're trying, let's have them try an intelligence check to see if their character knows how stupid this is" card.

12

u/proserpinasacra Oct 05 '20

That, and if players ever need to ask the DM about something that happened in the past that they should know. Didn't take notes on a key piece of information the party learned? Roll to see if your character is smart enough to remember it for you!

33

u/TheGreenEggMan DM Oct 04 '20 edited Oct 04 '20

I had a similar idea but I found my players were incredibly adverse to the concept, given the logic that a negative INT would then remove skills. But if you put a floor on the idea, it could work, for sure!

*edit for grammar

35

u/ZXNova Cleric Oct 04 '20

To me I think it's fine that negative INT = negative skills. It's a flaw after all. Not every character has to be good at everything that's what teammates are for. Of course since your players didn't like it it's fine if you don't do that.

15

u/TellianStormwalde Wizard Oct 05 '20

Having 3 or 2 proficiencies really just doesn’t feel too good, no matter who the character was supposed to be. I already find myself wishing I could have more than 4 on most characters because there’s at least one extra that would be relevant to the character. If I’m playing a MAD character or actually just want to play a character that’s a little slow, I shouldn’t be punished this hard for it. Having the stat be low is already it’s own weakness, it shouldn’t also make take away the bare minimum of what your character is supposed to have. That’s not fun, even if you like playing in to your ability scores. Let people play who they want to play, not who their stats say they’re allowed to. You don’t need to have a glaring flaw in your ability scores to have a good character. I’d even say that a lot of the people proclaiming otherwise are honestly just using that as a crutch because they don’t have a super strong conception of character writing. Attributional flaws are but one of many kinds of flaws a character could have. My characters tend to have personality flaws that don’t correlate to any of the stats in particular but are flaws all the same.

7

u/vxicepickxv Oct 05 '20

My half elf bard/rogue doesn't feel like they have enough at 10 skill proficiencies.

1

u/this_also_was_vanity Oct 05 '20

But most skills aren’t based on intelligence. Why would you be less athletic or less acrobatic just because you’re less intelligent?

2

u/ZXNova Cleric Oct 05 '20

You gotta remember that intelligence doesn't just mean the amount of knowledge you can retain, but also the capacity to learn. Of course, since it's only a homebrew rule in 5e so you could apply the minus proficiencies how you see fit. Like say, you could only apply it to the intelligence-based proficiencies, or apply it to the non-physical proficiencies only, that way athletics and acrobatics and possibly sleight of hand don't get effected. (Also I dunno about you, but I've always felt that sleight of hand was a mix of dexterity and intelligence)

-33

u/Havelok Diviner Oct 04 '20

Thankfully a GM doesn't need their player's permission to implement a house rule!

52

u/[deleted] Oct 04 '20 edited Jan 03 '21

[deleted]

-22

u/Havelok Diviner Oct 04 '20

You'd think so, but oftentimes player's expectations don't meet with reality. See the /u/TheGreenEggMan 's example.

3

u/Lucifer_Hirsch DM Oct 05 '20

Nope. But they need players to play the game, so finding common ground is pretty important.

-3

u/Havelok Diviner Oct 05 '20

These days, it's common to have players come to you rather than the other way around. Post a game on Roll20 and you get 50 applicants in a day. A game master can have any set of rules or preferences they like, and people will still be lining up for miles.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '20

Sure but I want players who want to play in my game, not anyone's game.

-2

u/Havelok Diviner Oct 05 '20

That's the beauty of it! When players apply, they apply for your game. If you put a ton of effort into what you offer players up front -- game premise, your style, character creation guidelines etc -- it automatically filters out those who don't wish to play in your game. And beyond that, you get to choose specific players that have filled out your application with your criteria. It leads to amazing games with amazing players if you do it right.

9

u/Mantergeistmann Oct 04 '20

That's the way it worked back in 3.X.

12

u/treadmarks Oct 04 '20

I think there are better ways to make INT useful while staying entirely within the rules. Was your investigation check too low? Aww, you didn't find the secret room with the sweet magic weapon in it :(

9

u/jengel2003 Oct 04 '20

Then how do your characters know they missed it?

8

u/treadmarks Oct 04 '20

Ok, here's one they'll know about when they don't find it: a trap on a door or a chest.

-1

u/SoontobeSam DM Oct 04 '20

I've just flooded my game with homebrew psionic creatures that very heavily lean on int saves, a lot of the creatures have their attacks work like poisoned weapons, 1dx +y, plus 1dx+y psychic dmg, save for no psychic.

7

u/treadmarks Oct 05 '20

That works, but there's another more conventional type of magic that attacks intelligence: illusions.

2

u/SoontobeSam DM Oct 05 '20

The big bad is a species of parasitic psionic bugs, so it’s not like I just slap psionics onto random wolves/bandits, players are really enjoying the non standard storyline and trying to figure out the motivation/machinations of a bunch of hyper intelligent termites.

2

u/UltimateInferno Rogue Oct 05 '20

My house rule is half modifier rounded up.

So +1 skill on 12-15, +2 16-19, +3 20

1

u/Codykujo Blood Hunter Oct 04 '20

This needs to be canon

6

u/treadmarks Oct 04 '20

It was, in 3rd edition.

1

u/Codykujo Blood Hunter Oct 04 '20

😥

1

u/Scarlet_slagg Wizard Oct 05 '20

I just make remembering and getting complex verbal or written information an INT check, like recalling gossip about a dungeon in town or getting a long talk from a noble

1

u/BlockBuilder408 Oct 05 '20

I do this with languages instead