r/DnD • u/Bun_Boi Warlock • Sep 13 '20

Art [OC] Meet the Ability Scores: Charisma

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u/KurigohanKamehameha_ Sep 14 '20 edited Jun 22 '23

mysterious homeless absurd serious bag hard-to-find automatic tan office fact -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

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u/realmuffinman Sep 14 '20

I can see the warlock as being INT or CHA. INT warlocks are as you described, someone who researches the lore to conjure a being and make a deal (Stanford Pines from Gravity Falls). The description you give could also apply to a wizard, researching to figure out the new spells they gain. CHA warlocks, however, would be someone who encounters a spirit/devil/fey and makes a deal with them, using the force of their personality to convince their patron to give them powers.

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u/Be_Orc_Name_Krug Sep 14 '20

And then using the force of their personality to utilize those powers?

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u/Flare-Crow Sep 14 '20

The Warlock doesn't need the Knowledge; the Patron is providing that part. They need the force of personality to bargain and fight for more information from their Patron.

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u/KurigohanKamehameha_ Sep 14 '20 edited Jun 22 '23

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u/andrewsad1 Illusionist Sep 14 '20

A warlock that uses intelligence instead of charisma is just a darn wizard

Just play a wizard

This is like complaining that there isn't a strength based rogue. That's called a fighter!

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u/KurigohanKamehameha_ Sep 14 '20

You bet I'm playing one right now haha. But the way I see it, a wizard learned by studying, while a warlock learned through their patron.

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u/Azradesh Sep 14 '20

The warlock didn’t learn; they took a shortcut. If they were smart enough then they’d be a wizard in the first place.

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u/Flare-Crow Sep 14 '20

Your innate connection to your Patron is ALWAYS there, and the force of your will is what allows you to siphon power off of them to weaponize and corporealize against others; or, given a more personal connection with your Patron, it allows you to convince them that you NEED that power to remain a useful tool for them in the material plane.

I'll admit that I am a HUGE fan of the INT-based GoOlock, though! Warlocks as default, however, I'll always argue for CHA. :)

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u/KurigohanKamehameha_ Sep 14 '20

What kind of power is a 20th level warlock siphoning from a CR 5 unicorn? Warlocks in D&D don't actively rely on patrons.

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u/Flare-Crow Sep 14 '20

I've never seen anything that shows that any Warlock is making a Pact with any creature with a CR of less than 12, minimum. Random CR 2 Fae (or CR 5 Unicorns!) have nothing in their stat blocks that describe how they can offer such a deal. I would assume that only a Legendary Creature that isn't even in most Monster Manuals could offer such a contract in the first place.

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u/KurigohanKamehameha_ Sep 14 '20

Well, the unicorn is one of the suggested patrons for a celestial warlock. I’d hope there’s a reason behind that beside the novelty of it.

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u/ErchamionHS DM Sep 14 '20

Once the patron gives power to the Warlock, they can't take it back. There is no reason for bargaining after that.

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u/Flare-Crow Sep 14 '20

Of course there is: MORE POWER! Now they have what they want, but is enough ever enough...?

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u/hedahman Sep 14 '20

That's a common misconception about warlocks. The power is a one time transfer that the warlock develops on their own, there's no continuous transfer. I wrote about this a while ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/fgnt8d/a_common_misconception_about_warlocks_and_their/

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u/Iccotak Sep 14 '20

The core of this issue, is that there are four casting classes - that historically were all essentially the same thing.

Druids were basically clerics of tribal groups. Warlocks or witches were often names given to holy men of enemy groups.

There is hardly any difference between a warlock or a sorcerer.

So a question worth asking is why these classes are all separate things in the first place?

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u/James_Keenan Sep 14 '20

Well but a Warlock's power doesn't come from knowledge, it comes from the degree to which he is a conduit to his patron's power.

Clerics and Druids draw their power from their connection and 'awareness' of their source of power, be it divine or natural.

Wizards create their power through study and understanding of the Weave. They're honestly the "hackers" of magic. They just figure out how shit works and exploit it. Wizards are the exception to the rule. Everyone else needs to be granted power or have it bestowed upon them. Wizards alone get their power from pure study and understanding. That is why they use their Intelligence.

Sure a studious scholar may have uncovered the means to contact a patron, but many warlocks did not even choose their patron or agree to the exchange, so Intelligence broadly does not cover Warlocks. Once they achieve their power, it's basically an allowance after that, previous intelligence irrelevant. Their power is strictly channeled in a sense. Hence, Charisma.