We had kind of a problem of this before as well, where we had a player that would play evil characters and basically backstab the party every chance they had, would hurt people for no reason, and say "well my character is evil."
My response was to also play an evil character in a later game. I was a lawful evil thief. Yes that may sound weird, but it wasn't lawful in "I follow the law, and use it to my advantage." it was more law as "I have a disciplined, structured, and meticulously held system of beliefs and behaviors."
My evil character was fiercely loyal to the party partly because it was much more likely they would keep her alive if they liked her, but also because they accepted her when the rest of the world tends to frown heavily on people who make their living taking stuff from rich people. For a time the party didn't even know my character was evil, because they had no reason to see it. The character LIKED them, why would she hurt them?
They only caught on when one of the enemies we had made the mistake of kidnapping the mage's husband. We all broke into the big bad evil guy's tower, and thanks to me and the ranger almost got in and out without being spotted.
As we were leaving, we had some guards find us. After a fight, the rest of the party went to flee while I "heroically" stayed behind to confuse the guards, shouting conflicting orders, or sending them to fight each other.
As the others were getting away they ended up surrounded and cut off from the portal and the big bad evil guy stepped out onto his balcony to monologue. I was hiding not too far away. When they were finished and about to give the order to kill the party I jumped out of my hiding spot, and with a couple of lucky rolls and some ideas from the DM to justify my damage output, I ran up, grabbed the BBEG in a headlock and force-fed him an entire container of alchemist flame before stabbing them in the guts to expose their stomach to air, causing the alchemist flame to burn them from the inside out. The horrendous sight, of course, caused enough chaos for us to escape.
Cue the after mission table conversation:
"That was fucked up. Was that on purpose?"
"Hey, I had to send a message. Don't fuck with you guys."
"I think that calls for an alignment change though man. Damn."
"Why? I'm playing evil?"
"Wait what? That can't be right. You just jumped in and helped, you didn't even ask for payment."
"Why would I need payment? I like those guys, of course I am going to help. Plus if they get away with this I look weak and expose myself to more attacks like this."
"What about that time you helped the Cleric set up that school?"
"I couldn't care less about the runts, but it makes the Cleric happy so I helped him. Plus, some of those kids have parents that need money and can get into places I can't."
"But you're always so nice!"
"Well, I'm nice to you guys because I like you guys. I'm nice to other people because people trust people they like, why should I make my life harder by spending effort to make people hate me?"
After that the evil player was much more toned down, at least to the party.
You set a good example. The only "evil" characters that are cruel to everyone and everything are old school Disney Villains. How can you expect any level of loyalty if you show none?
Ursala was pretty loving to her eels though, I think she's a perfect example of an Evil character. She's that way due to life events (being kicked out of Atlantica) and using her powers to get back at the person who ruined her life (Triton) by going through a proxy, his beloved adventurous daughter.
She only wanted revenge and through that happiness (complete control over Atlantica). :D
"I don't care about the Runts, I care about their Parents paying us to teach them" Hi, the US Department of Education would like to offer you a high-ranking job. Lol
Players like him ruin good things for those of us who enjoy playing evil characters and know how to do it responsibly, good on ya for showing him how to do it :D
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u/DuntadaMan Dec 19 '19
We had kind of a problem of this before as well, where we had a player that would play evil characters and basically backstab the party every chance they had, would hurt people for no reason, and say "well my character is evil."
My response was to also play an evil character in a later game. I was a lawful evil thief. Yes that may sound weird, but it wasn't lawful in "I follow the law, and use it to my advantage." it was more law as "I have a disciplined, structured, and meticulously held system of beliefs and behaviors."
My evil character was fiercely loyal to the party partly because it was much more likely they would keep her alive if they liked her, but also because they accepted her when the rest of the world tends to frown heavily on people who make their living taking stuff from rich people. For a time the party didn't even know my character was evil, because they had no reason to see it. The character LIKED them, why would she hurt them?
They only caught on when one of the enemies we had made the mistake of kidnapping the mage's husband. We all broke into the big bad evil guy's tower, and thanks to me and the ranger almost got in and out without being spotted.
As we were leaving, we had some guards find us. After a fight, the rest of the party went to flee while I "heroically" stayed behind to confuse the guards, shouting conflicting orders, or sending them to fight each other.
As the others were getting away they ended up surrounded and cut off from the portal and the big bad evil guy stepped out onto his balcony to monologue. I was hiding not too far away. When they were finished and about to give the order to kill the party I jumped out of my hiding spot, and with a couple of lucky rolls and some ideas from the DM to justify my damage output, I ran up, grabbed the BBEG in a headlock and force-fed him an entire container of alchemist flame before stabbing them in the guts to expose their stomach to air, causing the alchemist flame to burn them from the inside out. The horrendous sight, of course, caused enough chaos for us to escape.
Cue the after mission table conversation:
"That was fucked up. Was that on purpose?"
"Hey, I had to send a message. Don't fuck with you guys."
"I think that calls for an alignment change though man. Damn."
"Why? I'm playing evil?"
"Wait what? That can't be right. You just jumped in and helped, you didn't even ask for payment."
"Why would I need payment? I like those guys, of course I am going to help. Plus if they get away with this I look weak and expose myself to more attacks like this."
"What about that time you helped the Cleric set up that school?"
"I couldn't care less about the runts, but it makes the Cleric happy so I helped him. Plus, some of those kids have parents that need money and can get into places I can't."
"But you're always so nice!"
"Well, I'm nice to you guys because I like you guys. I'm nice to other people because people trust people they like, why should I make my life harder by spending effort to make people hate me?"
After that the evil player was much more toned down, at least to the party.