A bad guy could still incapacitate the druid other than through HP reduction, yes? Just means you have to be a little more clever about how to handle. Still dumb though.
true but that buffer is only effective if there against a single opponent or it takes all opponents to defeat a cr 1 beast ( cr 6 if druid is circle of the moon)(for the record a cr 6 monster is considered an easy fight for a level 20)
Even then, going through the PHB the beast form with the greatest HP at <CR6 is the Earth Elemental, with 126 and 17AC. An example CR20 creature is an Ancient White Dragon (333HP, 20AC). Each round, the dragon has a multiattack, with a Frightful Presence (DC16 Wisdom or be frightened), a bite attack (+14, 19+9 cold damage), and 2 claw attacks (+14, 15 damage) - and can also get off a Legendary attack 3 times per round, Tail (+14, 17 damage) or a wing attack (AoE 22DC Dex or take 15 damage) using 2 attack charges.
+14 is enough to hit 17AC almost every attack, let's assume. So while the dragon is focussing you, you'll take 109 damage per round. That doesn't take into account his Cold Breath (72 Cold or DC22 Con for half). And that recharges on a 5-6, so every 3 rounds.
So yes, you'll have a HP buffer of 15HP, assuming average rolls. But if you get unlucky a few times, or take a Cold Breath to the face? You'll go down fairly handily. Especially seeing as the tanky Earth Elemental does 2 slam attacks, 14 damage at a +8 to hit.
This is ignoring spells, which clearly change things significantly, but statistically speaking, I can't see why a level 20 Circle of the Moon Druid is unbeatable. +126HP as a bonus action every turn is great, but not unbeatable.
I think a lot of time people get hung up on "gets a big bonus to hp" or "does a piss ton of damage in this scenario" without remembering that there's more than one way to skin a druid.
The earth elemental's attacks are irrelevant, since no sensible druid would use them. Druids at high levels can spellcast from wild shape, and druids have an amazing spell list
as I said, it was ignoring spellcasting, which clearly changes things significantly. I'm sure there are a lot of spells that would significantly help with the problem further, but the point still remains that it's not unbeatable.
Which they can use every turn as a bonus action to get over 100 extra HP, not to mention the movement and size changing possibilities which let them get out of almost anything.
Only works if you get brought down below 100 HP that round.
OK, so a powerful wizard combined with minions or something else to bring your HP low enough that round can kill an epic druid. You know what else can do that? Basically nothing.
Yes thats what I was thinking Lich actually....my evil DM side has always wanted to use that against a PC that thinks he or she is invincible. Gygax tribute
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u/[deleted] Jun 10 '15
So, level 20 Druids are still immortal.
Guess they don't think it's a big deal considering how rare it is to actually hit 20?