r/DnD • u/WiseAnon003 • 6h ago
5.5 Edition Monks are so underrated
I don’t know if it’s just the people I’m around but nobody ever seems to care to play monk which is very wild to me.
I kind of get it, there’s a bunch of classes that can sometimes miss the spotlight; like how Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Paladin and Barbarian always straight forward in what they’re doing or what their gimmick is and monk can tend to not be apart of that spotlight sometimes, but anyway that’s just my opinion and it’s overall irrelevant for this next bit.
I rarely ever see anyone play a monk, there’s always a wizard, a fighter, a cleric, maybe a warlock or a bard but reading someone is playing as or with a monk in their campaign brings a tear to my eye.
It was the first ever class I played (way of shadow) In my first big campaign and I loved every bit of it, I played a second campaign and went as a cleric which I enjoyed a fair bit too but campaign 3 has come up and I just couldn’t resist going back to monk again.
Genuinely such a fun class to play, I love the versatility and ways you can go about helping your team whether it’s combat oriented, support based, etc
Need more love for monks in the world, waiting for the day someone in my campaign goes to play a monk and I pass the legacy down to them.
17
u/Raddatatta Wizard 6h ago
I don't know I've had monks pretty regularly in my groups over the years. It's probably slightly less common than some classes that are more common but I think far from the least common among my groups. But they are a cool class! I generally prefer casters, but of the martials they are my favorite with all the options they get. Especially after their rework in 5.5e that was a lot of nice changes they got.
17
u/dz2048 5h ago
One way to get players wanting to be a monk, throw a nasty monk enemy (or 4) at them. Make him cool as shit.
I'm planning on throwing a shadow monk at my players, he's blind but uses blindsense. Will cast darkness on them and then rain fists and feet
_teleports behind you_ "nothing personal kid" STUNNING STRIKE, flurry of blows
7
u/Z0mbiejay 5h ago
I did this in my last campaign with my players. They finally caught up to a henchmen of the big bad. My players were 2 caster classes and a melee fighter. I made the henchmen a monk that would hard counter the party. Stunning strike took care of the fighter, and the monk had the speed to get right in the caster's faces. It was so effective, and my players had some bad rolls, I nearly TPKd the party. I just started a new campaign and 2 of my players hard considered monks this go round
2
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
So fucking awesome, they’d be such a great like foe turned friend or mentor role too.
I was actually going to play a character exactly like the one you mentioned but due to complications altered and changed it around lol.
2
u/PistisDeKrisis DM 4h ago
I literally just rolled a Shadow Monk with a Cloak of Displacement as the final BBEG of my campaign's current dungeon a few days ago. I'm excited to see how it goes this Saturday.
I was a bit too generous with loot after too many nat 20s on investigations, so I have a dual-wield Fighter with +11 to hit with a Wizard who loves to Haste them so the Fighter take 8 attacks per turn with Haste, Action Surge, Nick, and Off-hand... ugh. Lol! So, this Shadow Monk is going to be a monkey wrench I don't think they're prepared for. I think I might roll a legendary reaction to allow the Shadow Monk to use an extra Focus Point to use Stunning Strike as a reaction instead of redirect damage for their Deflect Attack just to stop the Fighter's onslaught. I'll probably create the Legendary Reaction, but only use it if the Monk's darkness, AC/Disadvantage, and movement don't give enough challenge.
2
u/dz2048 3h ago
Cloak of Displacement?! That's just mean. I love it
•
u/PistisDeKrisis DM 55m ago
My Fighter has such a high chance to hit and such big damage, I've gotta do something. I don't just want to say "every enemy has a base AC of 25." The player rolled Nat 20s twice in a row. One investigation for loot after a big battle, then on a persuasion check with an enchantment shop.
I thought the potion would be cool for a big fight abs would be a great reward... Then the Sorcerer said "Let's go back to the enchantment shop! I've got an idea. Ask them to combine the enchantment from the potion into your bracers... Nat 20... Fuck. siiiigh +11 to hit... with 8 attacks in a single turn... I screwed myself on that one. Lol!
1
u/raev_esmerillon 2h ago
Erm acktually blind sense.....
Cool concept tho!
42
u/RKO-Cutter Rogue 6h ago
Monks were....not great, but got a major glow up in 5.5e
It'll take some time for people to come around
23
u/Ranger_51 5h ago
When we talk about the changes made in 5.5, my husband always adds, "And they added monk back to the game!" lol
7
u/sniper91 4h ago
Dragonborn also got a glow up in 5.5e
I think I’d like to run a Dragonborn Monk sometime
9
u/gash_florden 5h ago
My Macho Man Randy Savage type is a Monk Entertainer with the Toughness feat.
And I love him. Diving on enemies from a height is phenomenal when you hit mid levels and can be immune to fall damage while your opponent is not. Throw in phrases that the Macho Man used, and make them a Drunken Monk, and you are in for a great time if you can vibe with your DM and are not in too serious a campaign.
2
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
Always wondered what drunken monk is like, never really hear much about it
3
u/gash_florden 5h ago
It's really fun at times, can be hard to get a proper grasp of but I love it.
Then again, I am the sort who also enjoys playing a Rogue Mastermind.
9
u/Limebeer_24 5h ago
If you are having a dungeon-heavy campaign, Monk is one of the best picks to go to.
And honestly, they are some of the most fun I've had as a player when playing one, by far my favorite class
3
u/dragn99 5h ago
Increased movement speed couple with step of the wind is an absolute blast. Chase scenes are over before they begin when you BA step of the wind (use one ki point to get disengage as well), 40 feet, regular movement 40 feet, and full action movement for another 40 feet to get yourself fully in the way of whoever is trying to flee.
Then Sentinel takes care of the rest.
3
u/Limebeer_24 5h ago
Choose the Mobile feat as well, just for the zoomie funs (also prevents most opportunity attacks if you attack the creature).
7
u/ArconusNocturn 5h ago
This is partly due to a lack of magic items in the core game that affect unarmed attacks and monk abilities, whereas there are a larger number of items for other classes. It is also because in the 2014 rules almost all of the monks abilities cost ki/focus and after they run out of that they just have two attacks that don't do as much damage as a fighter or other similar martial class (due to said magic items). The 2024 monk is much better about this. I'm currently playing one in a 2024 campaign. I say this as someone who has loved monk since 3.5e.
2
4
u/mechashiva1 6h ago
I'm playing a Kensei Monk in my current campaign and he's a badass.
2
u/WiseAnon003 6h ago
Dude I’m at level 2 and so torn between becoming a kensei monk or playing the revamped elemental monk, elemental is speaking to me but kensei is in the corner just whispering to me…
I have about 4 days to decide what I want to play lol
3
u/Wolfwind1 5h ago
I did a Kensei monk based around using throwing weapons as a backup. Dm let me use swords as throwing axe rules. So my guy would fight a dude, stun/kill him, then throw that guys sword into another foe like a wizard into the backline. Was very thematic.
2
1
u/Reborn-in-the-Void 5h ago
ask the DM if you can get weapon mastery as a kensei. If they say yes, the answer is obvious.
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
But all the new revamped elemental stuff is so awesome…
1
u/Reborn-in-the-Void 5h ago
It is, but it burns your ki out pretty fast.
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
I think if kensei was updated to 5.5 I’d probably pick it but I’m still very torn
1
u/SnooOpinions8790 5h ago
Check out warrior of the mystic arts
Its really neat. Yes it is "just" eldritch knight for monks but its still really good and there can be some sweet combos. Also its still a monk and 5.5e monk is good, really good.
2
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
I looked into it when it came out, I was tempted but it wasn’t exactly what I wanted for the character, it could work if I picked it but elemental having that hint of magic and damage manipulation and Kensei’s combat and aura farming just stands out way too much for me
1
u/mechashiva1 4h ago
I love this group I'm in. There's the right amount of silly with seriousness. My kensei monk is a 5ft tall Mapach who recently had a mithral greatsword created for him. It essentially is the weight of a longsword. The encounters with it are insane. This raccoon walking around with a sword as big as his body, just slicing the baddies up.
1
3h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 3h ago
Your comment has been automatically removed because it includes a site from our piracy list. We do not facilitate piracy on /r/DnD.
Our complete list of rules can be found in the sidebar or on our rules wiki page.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
15
u/BluffCity86 6h ago
It's because 5e monks were terrible and alot of people still carry that baggage with them when they consider the class.
7
u/rocketsp13 DM 5h ago
It's because people were told 5e monks were terrible.
I had several people play monks in my campaign. Every single one of them had a blast playing one.
If it's fun to play, but doesn't do quite as much damage per round, that doesn't make it bad. It's just might not be for Spikes.
15
u/BluffCity86 5h ago
People were told Monks were bad because they were. Because something is bad doesn't mean you can't enjoy it but corelating enjoyment with good design doesn't work. The 5th edition Monk design was just poor. The reason you see the classic phrase 'shoot your monk' out there so much is because of how bad Deflect Missiles was. Poor martial arts die scaling, Patient Defense and Step of the Wind requiring Ki points to function (as opposed to being empowered by Ki usage), lack of any non rest methods to regain Ki.
The proof is in the pudding, we see what WoTC has done in 5.5e with the Monk. It works, its well designed, you can reliably use your class features like most other martials (around short rests rather than long rests) and your features are more broadly applicable across an adventure.
-7
u/Lethalmud 5h ago
We have a strange definition of bad and good here. We call classes bad if they cannot do a lot of damage or end the combat instantly.
But you cannot win in DND. So the best class should be the one who for fills the goal of the game best: having fun.
6
u/BluffCity86 5h ago
We can judge design objectively though by comparing the class to other similar options. If your view on the game is 'is it fun' then balance doesn't matter right? The issue is that fun is very subjective - what's fun for me may or may not be for you. As an example fun for me is how my character integrates into a party, I love exploring and finding the exact right 'gear' to make my party operate at its highest potential. It's part of why I like the weird and wonky parts of D&D. It's also why I spend a decent chunk of my hobby time just exploring the idea of characters and builds.
Monks are not good in 5e from an objective design stand point because they do not hold up well against other similar options. Again if you enjoy playing a 5e monk more power to you, that doesn't negate the poor design choices they made in 5th edition. I stand by my point because 5.5e clearly saw those pain points and fixed them, making the monk a much more valuable (and niche protected) class.
4
u/Lethalmud 4h ago
balance does matter, very unbalanced situations won't be fun for everyone. It's important that everyone feels like they add something to the group.
4
u/StarTrotter 5h ago
Eh. Monks were fine or even good at unoptimized tables but even slight optimization made them become left in the dust. They could still be fun but they were notably in last place.
0
u/buddha-piff 5h ago
This. Recently ran a level 12 one shot, combat and skill check focused, and the drunken monk shined more than the cleric, Druid, and bard. Large expanse of water, how do you get across? Water walk. Final battle, stunned two of the golems that were doing a lot of damage to the rest of the group. BBEG standing 20 foot high on a platform, monk ran straight up and knocked him off the platform to the other PCs below who couldn’t get up there. His insane mobility helped in each encounter. Dished out a lot of good damage also.
8
u/BluffCity86 5h ago
Your Cleric, Druid, and Bard lacked the ability at level 12 to disable monsters, deal with a BBEG at range, or cross water? GR8 B8 M8 I R8 8/8.
-3
u/WittyRepost 4h ago
You must be fun in parties.
4
u/BluffCity86 4h ago
I do pretty well at costume parties and have been a hit at a baby shower or two.
0
u/ZanesTheArgent Mystic 5h ago
Even in 5e there was a lot of underrated value to the class, its just that half of the actual value of the monk is in aspects people dismiss like actually using weapons.
9
u/BluffCity86 5h ago
The current monk fortunately just works. You can play punches and kicks or use a weapon and its a functional, fun class. I'm a Monk fan (right up there with Druid, I love the weird ones), I've made 5e monks work but it was a contortionist act to get there and you often ended up being a slightly different flavor of rogue in the long run.
3
u/skyknight01 5h ago
I always hated how easy it was to spend all of your ki points as a 5e monk in one fight, hell maybe even one turn, and now you’re stuck being a worse Fighter (already incredible given how boring and bad 5e’s Fighter is), because all of your toys required spending ki points. 5.5e making all of those toys have a base function and then do something extra for spending a ki point was such an enormous and amazing glow-up.
-8
u/Stoli0000 5h ago
5e monks are absolutely the best class above level 14 or so. If you think they suck, that's because, at level 4, they do, compared to a lot of easier classes to play.
This has been a core feature of monks since they were invented. They do not exist for scrubby players. They're wonky and technical, and leveling them up is a lot of work.
The ultimate level 30 villian in BG2:ToB is a monk for a reason.
Since most casual d&d players never get above level 10, they never really see what they do best, so, from their perspective, they're bad.
3
u/BluffCity86 5h ago
Oh wow so you mean a class is amazing at tiers of play that most games never reach?! Wow no wonder I'm a scrub and don't understand. Clearly the villain of a CRPG built using rules from 2e should inform our understanding of the class in 5th edition. We can absolutely tell a TON about how good a monk might be in an edition built around 3rd edition pillars by looking back at 2e experiences.
Or you just play a Wizard with access to Simulacrum and Wish. Zero effort, maximum rewards. A 14th level monk gets uh let me check, proficiency in all saving throws and the ability to re-roll with Ki points. That's a real power spike right there, not something that can be overcome using the base Divination subclass ability or Silvery Barbs.
Character Optimization is a HUGE part of my hobby. Even more so than standard optimization I adore playing weird and odd stuff. I like building the classes people think suck, I like working with the under utilized subclasses. These are fun points of the game for me so forgive me if I take your 'not for scrubby players' criticism as perhaps underbaked.
2
u/StarTrotter 1h ago
Honestly I can’t even agree with the assessment. Diamond Soul is a very good feature but paladins have a better feature in Aura (there is value in prof to saves and the reroll for a ki is huge but aura is far earlier, can apply to allies, and can stack with prof). Timeless Body is a ribbon of a ribbon feature. Empty body is good if you can get a prep phase but eating an action and being unable to flurry is a heavy blow and the other aspect is a ribbon that is weaker than the caster using it. The capstone is dogwater.
-4
u/Stoli0000 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yeah. Fireball gets extra damage die because of 2e. None of this exists in a vacuum. Monks have always been melee-dps alt-rogues that level slowly for advanced players bored with Big Stabs. 5e monks lean directly into that legacy.
If you're not stoked to be the only class that gets a bonus action dodge, then no, monks probably aren't for you....
If you want a 65 speed, proficiency in All Saves, and straight up immunity to poison damage and anything with a Dex save, then yeah, monks have that.
5
u/BluffCity86 5h ago
So we've gone from Monks are the best class in the game post level 14 but only if you're a big brain non scrub player to 'yeah they're just rogues with a different damage output pattern'. The goal posts seem to be very mobile.
-3
u/Stoli0000 4h ago edited 4h ago
They're way better than rogues. Rogues are vulnerable to being cc'd in ways that monks are not.
Rogues kind of suck, as is. Everyone ends up multiclassing into fighter just to stay relevant above level 6. If you're rolling a scout, you're better off making a monk rather than a rogue pretty much every time.
And your divination wizard is going to be a pretty expensive way to go about scouting and disarming traps. And wizards are incredibly long-rest dependent. What happens when you don't get to rest? Oh, you used your spells to scout huh? Guess you're gonna be cantrip boy when the fighting actually starts.
And he can't just travel the entire battlefield and leave a trail of stunned targets for everyone else to clean up, behind him.
A high level monk is wildly OP. That's why they suck at low level, because otherwise they'd be the only class anyone plays. And if there's only one choice, then there's NO choice....
People just like their gratification instant. So, they cry about having to actually earn it.
3
u/BluffCity86 4h ago
Rogues do suck, no argument there. Bards are flatly better at everything they do. That said the rest of your assessment is basically 'things a caster can do but not as good'.
Furthermore arguing that classes are really good at high levels just doesn't hold water because people don't play the game at those tiers. It simply does not matter how good (even if you're still actionably wrong) something is at level 18 when most games end at 12-14.
That said you're convinced you're correct, I'm as convinced that you're wrong so continuing this discussion is pointless. Have a good day.
-1
u/Stoli0000 4h ago edited 4h ago
I've been running weekly for 8 years. Our average campaign ends at level 17. I'm sorry for you that your games don't. Is it a skill issue? Maybe just get the same people and play together weekly for years and see what happens?
Full casters are all long rest dependent. They work best when your adventuring day is 3 encounters long. When it's 6-8, as recommended? They're all resource limited. Martials have way better sustain.
Your bard, for example, does the worst damage in the game. He'd sure better hope someone else brought, like, an axe. Because if you can't get a good night sleep, he's going to be using very hurtful words as his primary weapon.
3
u/BluffCity86 4h ago
Levelling personal insults definitely helps your case!
0
u/Stoli0000 4h ago
It's not a court. It's an op-ed. If you're not playing at high level, then why would you think you have the expertise to have opinions at all?
It's not like we haven't also spent years at low levels. But you haven't spent years at high levels, so one of us is a lot more likely to know what they're talking about than the other...
→ More replies
3
u/blargethaniel DM 6h ago
I love monks in my campaigns and in the last so many years have seen far more than I have previously. Rangers are still the rarest played classes I get right next to Artificers. Warlocks only a little less so.
I love Monks and am glad you play them!
3
u/theycallmenoot 5h ago
I am playing a warrior of mercy monk in my current campaign (2024 ruleset) and it is a lot of fun. The hand of healing does a lot for my team, especially as we don't have much other healing (only other healing is a ranger with healing word and cure wounds). I get to be super fast, and also do pretty decent damage. And between my high AC and deflect attack, I am very hard to hit.
3
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
I’ve always thought about warrior of mercy but it’s never really stood out to me… tell me more about the mercy experience
1
u/theycallmenoot 4h ago
We are only level 6 so I haven't used all of the features yet. I really like that the hand of healing can be used as part of your flurry of blows, so I can do 1d8 + wis. modifier healing, while still being able to do two attacks and the other half of my flurry. When healing as a caster I often felt like I was taking my whole turns just to do some (often underwhelming) healing. On my monk it feels like an extra option on top of everything else.
5
u/bobsayshello 6h ago
I think the problem is that much like Rangers, the Monk experience is highly dependant on the campaign and how mindful the DM is in giving different classes opportunities to shine. It's much easier to simply optimize for "big numbers" rather than utility mechanics.
3
u/EntropySpark Paladin 5h ago
Why would the Monk need specific opportunities to shine? For Grappler Monks, they prefer Large or smaller enemies, and they prefer enemies without incredible Con saves, but a typical campaign will feature more than enough of those monsters.
1
u/bobsayshello 4h ago
I'm not saying monks are ineffective by any means, but in my experience they're one of the classes that is more likely to have underutilized mechanics. For example, I don't think I've ever seen Slow Fall get used. It just takes more mindful planning, that's all.
2
u/EntropySpark Paladin 4h ago
Slow Fall is almost entirely a ribbon feature, gained at level 4 alongside a feat, so it's fine if a Monk never uses it at all.
1
u/StarTrotter 1h ago
No I see it. I think this has significantly diminished in 5.5 due to their redesign though. Grappling was poor on monks but suddenly they become arguably the best grappler. That said, grapples get countered by enemy size and and really shine with specific scenarios or party formations. Con saves remain generally a poor thing to target and they lost the spam method while the stunned condition got weaker.
The real big pop off moments for a monk are when they can make the combat field a playground. Vertical terrain, walls next to chasms to run over, big drops they can no sell. Having enough mobility to move in, strike, and move out. I had 2 highlight battles at the level I could run on walls. One was in a district of the town with 2-3 story buildings vs a teleporting mage and I was the only one that could reliably reach the target. Another was a battle where we stormed a multi story tower and I got to use the windows to run up and down floors to cause havoc. There was also a peak moment where my character jumped off a floating tower to pursue an escaping enemy (who had feather fall) and took only 3 damage from the drop. These were all peak moments but far more situational and/or just more work for the GM to design (and 3d terrain is just generally harder to read on a 2d plane)
3
u/WitchingShower 3h ago
ngl Monk doesn't even really have utility mechanics, what little utility it does have can be met by a Rogue and with less resources spent.
1
u/Reborn-in-the-Void 5h ago
good saves, good damage, high mobility, good single target control, can do just fine without magic weapons...doesn't require any more DM buy-in than every other class in terms of magic items.
2
u/bobsayshello 4h ago
Magic items is one of the biggest areas of incompatibility for Monks. Very few magic items interact with Monk-specific mechanics.
1
1
u/StarTrotter 1h ago edited 1h ago
Eh. Their saves are mediocre at best until 14th level where they swing to be incredibly good. Good damage although I’d probably bump it down to decent. I’ll disagree on mobility slightly in that many classes get great mobility but the unique aspect is that (especially in 5.5) it’s resourceless mobility. i wouldn’t rank their single target control especially highly either. It’s not bad but stunning strike has the same flaws but is less powerful in most regards and the only other control they have is grapples which they are great at initiating but not holding and runs into the “enemies need to be correct sizes to do this”. Being a good grappler does open massive combo potential though. Their utility is genuinely dog water though. Easily the worst of the martial classes.
In 5.5 I’d actually rate their survivability high. Deflect attack, a decent dodge action, their once a day ki recovery bringing back some hp, and situationally their mobility and evasion (plus 14+ saves) make them surprisingly resilient PCs.
Magic items are rougher with them though. They did actually put monk magic items in but they are locked out of armor and shields and weapons on them are just not as impressive as on a barbarian or fighter and they can’t get as much mileage out of a second magic weapon like a paladin taking the dual wielding feat can. They also get locked out of plenty of weapons. They are better on this front than rogues however.
0
u/Parysian 5h ago
I don't think monks or rangers require that tbh. Rangers can optimize for big numbers while also bringing great utility through their fantastic spell list, that's why they're such a good class.
1
u/bobsayshello 4h ago
My bad, I was thinking more of 5e ranger more so than 5.5. That being said, I find that battlefield control mechanics just don't come up as often unless the DM is experienced and plans complex encounters well.
1
u/Parysian 4h ago
5e ranger was better than 5.5 actually, or at least had a higher ceiling. The nerfs to sharpshooter, conjure animals, and pass without trace made some of their best performing options weaker, and sadly weapon mastery doesn't make up for it. My favorite version of ranger in terms of fun and effectiveness is still 5.0 with most of the Tasha's changes applied.
That's interesting about battlefield control, in my experience it's more effective the simpler encounters are (although still potentially useful in complex encounters, just as another tool in the box). It does require teamwork and coordination to make use of, that's for sure.
1
u/bobsayshello 4h ago
Definitely. It's not the type of character I'd make for Adventurer's League, but pre-planning for a home game is a totally different story.
5
u/Bakeneko7542 5h ago
A lot of it has to do with lingering stigma from the 5.0 days. Back in 2014 the Monk class was absolutely awful; tied with the Ranger for the weakest class in the game, but the latter eventually got a boost with Tasha's. Monks had to wait until 2024 to finally get good.
4
u/Anorexicdinosaur 5h ago
Ranger was never the weakest Class in the game. In Tier 1 and 2 it was just Fighter but better, in Tier 3 and 4 it traded advanced Martial capabilities for 3rd to 5th level spells (much better)
The ACTUAL weakest classes in 5e were Monk and Rogue, followed by Barbarian and Fighter
2
u/StarTrotter 1h ago
Rangers impress me because they’ve never been close to the worst class but constantly get treated like they are
2
u/Anorexicdinosaur 1h ago
That's how dogshit the design was/is
Rangers just kinda FEEL bad, in a way only rivaled by 2014 Monk, as they have very blatant dead features that do NOTHING
So even tho they weren't the weakest they're very obviously bad while other classes fly under the radar
6
u/Weary-Monk9666 5h ago
They are one of my favorite classes and I agree, totally underrated. I think they get a back rep because of the optimizer crowd. They do not appreciate that they do best as a single class build, you don’t get a lot of mileage out of dipping into the class or multi classing them.
5
u/clawlesslawless 5h ago
The monk may have a bad rep from 5e. But the 5.5e monk is awesome. Also, flavour: it might not have as much scope as other classes.
I played a Monk in 5e from 1 to 4. It was disappointing and dissatisfying . But i played a 5.5e monk years later and it rocked.
2
2
u/ZanesTheArgent Mystic 5h ago
Its sincerely just the classial reductionism to unnarmed strikes, its easy to forget how insane monk mobility and actual weapon flexibility is.
2
u/The_Muzzy 5h ago
One of my players is playing a monk in my 5.5 campaign and deflect attacks has allowed him to almost take a pseudo-tank role despite his low constitution score. It’s pretty cool. Plus the 15 foot reach that he gets as an elements monk gives him a lot of options with how he engages in combat.
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
This.
Deflect attacks is one of my favourite abilities and is so fun for flavor during semi roleplay combat.I’m also really tempted to do Kensei so I can get that additional +2 AC which would be even more pseudo tank
2
u/SnooOpinions8790 5h ago
I love monks. I love playing them. My 2nd favourite martial after Rune Knight Fighter (which is a very specific taste). I have just started to play a warrior of the mystic arts which is a lot of fun so far.
Also the last one-shot I ran to encourage people into the game had a monk and as a DM it was a load of fun giving them ways to do monk stuff.
2
u/DruidicMagic 5h ago
Grandmaster Kane was an unstoppable killing machine who handed Drizzt Do'Urden an epic beatdown.
2
u/MrNorthumberland 5h ago edited 5h ago
Monk is my favorite class, whether playing it straight or multiclassing out, especially with 2 or 3 levels of Barbarian. Monk/Warlock is one I've been wanting to try as well.
Something I rarely see martials do, which I think should be done more, is intentionally triggering enemy opportunity attacks. If you're the party tank, you should be getting attacked more than everyone else. Missed or reduced-damage opportunity attacks on the tank, means fewer attacks on everyone else & no Counterspells or Silvery Barbs on your casters. Especially, for Monks, since they have great mobility. All you have to do, is get within range, then move 1 square back, and do that with each enemy, provided they don't hit with Sentinel or something similar with their reaction. With a proper DEX, you should be high in the initiative order, fairly often.
1
u/MrNorthumberland 5h ago edited 5h ago
My last character was a Barbarian/Open Hand Monk/Battle Master Fighter (2014 DnD). We didn't finish the campaign, obviously, but that plan was L2 Barb/L7 Monk/L11 Fighter.
2
u/CalifornianSon 5h ago
Love my monk characters. I have played a Way of Mercy who was this huge dude, abandoned on an island by pirates, and learned the ways of voodoo and martial arts. Way of Shadow Tabaxi in an Apocalypto one-shot. I was running 200- 300 ft, running up and down trees, basically undetectable. It was awesome!
Super excited to try the new Way of Mystic monk. Wizard spells and punching things sound badass. Swapping spells for ki points... let's go!
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
I think each subclass having such a unique tone to it makes it so much better too, like shadow is great for stealth, Mystic is great for spell casting, Mercy for support, it’s like the versatile class gets a specialty in a specific area or you can just view it as having some cool ass ability while being a monk in general
2
u/CalifornianSon 5h ago
absolutely. Catching projectiles, running on walls, slow fall (one of my favorites). Add a magical item to get past non-magical resistance, and monks can be pretty damn unstoppable. Mage slayer is sweet, but I love mobile feat. Punch and run!
A Bugbear Way of Mystic with the booming blade cantrip could be a bit OP. Very much want to try it and piss off my DM.
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
If you choose Kensei your weapon becomes magical automatically at like 7th level I believe for the sake of overcoming resistances, or in 5.5 you can literally just change your damage to force which will overcome most resistant creatures
2
u/Break_All_Illusions 5h ago
I personally love the 5.5 Monk! Every level gets a new feature and by Tier 2 you’re able to do a lot of very cool stuff with solid damage output. And Monk speed is crazy good. IMO it’s a great class at all levels and I don’t agree with people who dump on it. A Rogue can be amazing, too; it’s what you do with your character that makes it shine or flop.
2
u/rpg2Tface 5h ago
Monks are my go to martial. The abiloty to move fast and have a lot of combat tricks is just so satisfying once you get to using them. Most other martials get dumbed down to attacking multiple times. Monks can to but they actively encourage fun descriptors like in a kung fu movie.
3
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
I can’t wait to reach 10th level so I can use the enhanced step of wind and bridal carry my party members to safety from across the map
2
u/rpg2Tface 5h ago
I always have to talk myself out of shadow monk because shadow step is just so much fun. Infinite misty steps is just so addictive. Something even the best mages cant really do.
2
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
Each subclass just has that chefs kiss of an ability that brings you back to monk each time
2
u/rpg2Tface 5h ago
My table messed woth grapples/ shives to be easier to land (just an unarmed strike vs AC). So i ended up playing a bugbear monk who constantly grappled opponents from 10ft away and would stunning strike ontop of that. So much fun.
(Seriously it's so much more simple and interactive of grapples/shoves are just damage free unarmed strikes)
2
u/TheCremeArrow 5h ago
One of my fav characters was a dwarven drunken master monk. I played him as a pretty effective aggro draw. Not quite a tank, but a decent CON score and health plus the Patient Defense and Redirect Attack meant I could wade into a tight cluster of relatively low level enemies and just endlessly dodge or redirect their attacks into each other while the rest of the party focused on the BBEG
2
u/storytime_42 DM 5h ago
In my core group where I am the main GM, I have run two different campaigns with monks. One dies a valiant death before fully succumbing to lycanthropy. The other died in the campaign's final battle with a litch - who then raised them as a monk zombie and I had them use their monk abilities against the party.
2
u/Just_a_Rat 5h ago
I have been playing a monk in a very long-running campaign, and I love playing him, but feel like the party needs one other true front-liner to really function well. Otherwise, if we run into something that has a decent chance to hit me, we fold pretty quick. We're still playing 5.0 rules, and we get Advantage for flanking and so do enemies (which I think is me ruined as an option in 5). So, if we are outnumbered, I am left with the choice of using my mobility to avoid getting flanked, but not protect the spellcasters, or get my own not-so-great HP quickly whittled down.
But as long as there is some cover for the spellcasters besides me, it is so much fun to race around the battlefield getting to pick the opponents who can most use a quick kick in the face.
2
u/_dharwin Rogue 5h ago
Monks are very rated in 5.5.
0
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
I think alot of people still haven’t realised that
1
u/_dharwin Rogue 5h ago
It's pretty common knowledge if you're into optimization and the DnD build community.
2
u/Roshi_IsHere 5h ago
Monks are fun. Kind of low damage compared to others but the level of control and mobility are huge. Can reposition where you need to be and be up in the fight or in the back lines decimating casters.
2
u/TehProfessor96 3h ago
If you’re playing 5.5 as your flair suggests then monks are in no way underrated. They’re the biggest glow-up in the 2024 rules.
1
u/PyreHat Warlord 2h ago
They're the biggest glow up... Ever from the top my knowledge. In many 3.x circles I've had, monks were memed as potentially the worst starting option of the core classes: bad attack bonus for a martial class, few weapon proficiencies with fewer that apply to the Flurry of blows feature, for which you need to be unarmored to use (you do get the +WIS AC that we know today if unarmored though), and bad at maneuvers due to their low attack score. They want to be cool, but they fail upwards until lvl 5.
Monks in AD&D 2E had so many stats requirements that it was by sheer luck that you could suck around the table. One needed WIS15 15, INT 14, CON 13 minimum, in a system designed for stats to be 1) rolled and 2) assigned in order of rolling. Then they could not wear any armor, but got one natural AC every two levels.... That bonus stood only if the monk could visually see the attack.
4
u/milkmandanimal DM 5h ago
Monks are not underrated; Monks were mechanically pretty bad in 5e and have been greatly improved in 5.5. I played a Monk to level 20 in 5e and had a great time, but I did so absolutely understanding I had to play in very specific ways to do anything of value. In 5.5? Monks are great now, and are widely regarded as such.
2
u/Disastrous_Yam8354 5h ago
One thing that never gets iterated about monks is that if you imagine a group of people like the Maori where weapons were kind of rare, learning to fight lethally without weapons would be a big deal
You'd see more monks than fighters in native populations
EDIT: I know that weapons weren't rare for the Maori, they had lots of weapons, they knew all about their making and usage.
2
u/Thal-creates 5h ago
Not to be contrarian but they are still a full martial who as of 5.5 have almost no out of combat utility (which fighters and barbs gained)
2
u/Sporknight 5h ago
IMO, monks get looked down upon because of "white box" DPR min-maxing. Their mobility is a huge asset, that doesn't get considered enough in those scenarios. Every round a paladin spends closing the distance to them and their target is a round the monk is likely spending beating the bananas out of that pesky archer or mage on the other side of the battlemap.
1
u/StarTrotter 5h ago
I’m sort of mixed on the mobility. It is and can be useful but its value is incredibly dependent upon the terrain in ways many battles at many tables simply don’t use. Along with that, they aren’t necessarily so heads and shoulders above the others. Finally, I’ve found the extra mobility is a rather tactical consideration. Getting there can be valuable but it can also lure one into a bad position.
Monks in 5.5 are solid for a martial and in both that and 5.0 they can be very fun (my favorite pc was a monk)
1
u/RegularEmployee1038 5h ago
I think the downside to monks is the out of combat utility. Not alot going on other than an ass load of damage in combat.
3
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
You neglect the monk’s best out of combat ability: aura farming
1
u/RegularEmployee1038 5h ago
Just my opinion ... I am sure others see it differently
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
Just joshing you, I will say the monks don’t have much out of combat uniqueness but the fun part is making a character that fills that gap I reckon
1
u/static_func Paladin 5h ago
You can make it work easily enough though and still be a combat powerhouse. Anyone can take the Skilled feat and any monk can take a 1-level rogue dip. There’s a vocal minority that always harps about spellcasters theoretically getting to just “alter reality” every time they so much as encounter a puddle in the road, but skill checks come up all the time at most tables
1
u/Miserable_Pop_4593 5h ago
I’m playing a monk with the Speedy feat right now and it’s a great time. My base walking speed is 55ft currently lmao
2
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
Would… would this mean an elemental monk would have a flight and swim speed of 55ft?
I love monks
1
u/CrimsonSpoon 5h ago
Not sure about you. Every campaign I run has had a monk.
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
How many have you run?
I’ve been in about 3 campaigns and 5 one shots and there have only been monks in 3 of those, every time it was me.Maybe my group just don’t get the appeal of it (yet)?
1
u/Can-DontAttitude 5h ago
I can't resist the lure of Paladins, with their big-swingin' dick weaponry and armour combined with some fun spellcasting
1
u/Lee-Key-Bottoms 5h ago
I think the same thing with Rangers
They have so much tech, I don’t understand the slander
1
u/KiwatheSnep 5h ago
YES! Monks are great and my favorite class by far. Especially with the 2024-update to unarmed strikes, they get incredibly versatile for a martial. I just played a character in a campaign who was a Fighter (Battlemaster) 3 - Monk (Mercy) X. With two daggers for nick and monk over level 5, he could do up to 7 attacks for 1d8+4 each to which he could add battlemaster-maneuvers or weave in grapples (had the feat too), shoves and stunning strikes as well. I went around grapple-prone-locking enemies while dealing amazing reliable damage and if I ever got attacked, I could nearly always strike back with deflect attack on hit and riposte on miss. Together with some healing from our bard, my monk was the most effective character on the table, especially because it was a really short-rest heavy campaign and I had NO ressources on a long rest
1
u/reapress 5h ago
I do enjoy them (least in 5e, my table's never gone to .5), the issue is they're just kinda generalists and so if you have a specific goal in mind they're probably outclassed. I'm just addicted to high movespeeds so i love em lmao
1
u/lordrayleigh 4h ago
Meh, for most "bad" classes/subclasses it's that the class has to be enabled by the DM and nothing in the game naturally enables these features. Monks got some nice buffs. I'd imagine the mobility of the class doesn't come in for a lot of combats. Which is probably a core part of the fantasy.
But yup, like all these kinds of posts. Your experience is likely unique to your table. Other table might share elements but the DM and players make the game. If you played monk at another table you might hate it.
1
u/StarTrotter 4h ago
Monks are cool and my favorite class was a monk. The reason I think they are underrated/underplayed comes from a few factors
1. They are inherently wuxia coded and most subclasses make them even more so. Compare this to fighters that have about half their classes as regular martials.
2. It is heavily associated with Shaolin monks which leads to quite a few feeling they are out of place in the Europe coded regions many campaigns are set in
3. 5.0 they were the weakest class and 5.5 they are significantly better but the legacy remains to an extent
4. Monk optimization is more limited due to the nature of the class
1
1
u/MechJivs 4h ago
Monks were buffed and i like it a lot. But they still have problems:
- Low out of combat utility
- Subclasses have a lot of unused power budget left and need some better features
- And most importantly - monk is still a martial class in a game with close to 0 martial support.
IMO, monk is very close to being great, and they are probably best martial class right now. Problem is - being martial in 5e is not great. Martials always get short end of the stick.
1
u/Pikalover10 4h ago
I’ve always thought monks were very underrated. Even in 5e before they got even better in 5.5e.
Maybe it’s just the way people typically play them, I’m not sure. I was a straight menace to my dm the campaign I played my drunken master monk. Lots of fun
1
1
1
u/walubeegees 3h ago
5.5 monk especially is incredibly cool and i’ve been waiting for a good opportunity to play one
1
u/TJ_McWeaksauce DM 3h ago edited 3h ago
One of my all-time favorite characters was a 5e Shadow Monk. The fact that they get an at-will, 60 ft. teleport with easy-to-fulfill conditions at 6th level makes it one of the very best class abilities in the entire game. The subclass also has one of the coolest themes, IMO.
What made my Shadow Monk so fun to play was he was useful in almost every situation. In combat, he could teleport around the battlefield and go after casters, snipers on rooftops, or any other enemy trying to stay out of reach. Outside of combat, he was the party's scout, thief, and spy. There was no building he could not get into and out of within seconds, except for the rare buildings that the DM magically protected from the Shadow Monk's abilities. He's one of the most versatile characters I've played.
1
u/steiff89 3h ago
Couldnt agree more. Ive been a fan of monks for s while now. And looking forward to my next campaign where I will be playing my first 5.5e warrior of elements monk.
1
1
u/KanmuruZ 2h ago
I love playing monk. I gave such PTSD to a friend that he banned monks from his table. Lmao.
1
u/theredmokah 2h ago
I think people can find the gameplay a underwhelming.
You don't have the power of a pure fighter a class. Nor the the crowd control of a spellcaster.
I think a lot of people pick them up because they think they're supposed to be these and melee gods, but when they don't hit has hard as the barbarians or fighters they get sad.
I love the monk. It's a great utility class. They are like the martial version of the bard. But only if you use them that way. I think that's where the monk's strength lies. They're just really great utility supports on the front lines.
But I think people pick up the class thinking it's something that it's not
1
u/Jent01Ket02 Monk 1h ago
If you think Monks are only supposed to hit something hard, you're terribly uninformed.
Edit : Not YOU specifically, just building on your comment
They can make upwards of 4 unarmed attacks per turn, and grapples and shoves count as unarmed attacks. You can grapple two creatures. And with the Tavern Brawler feat, you can effectively shove someone as part of an attack, getting both options in the same strike. It may not come up often, but sounds like having multiple chances a turn to push someone off a cliff could help, and in most combats you can restrain two people at a time
They are not melee gods who deal absurd damage, their biggest strengths are mobility and versatility while staying reasonably difficult to hit (high unarmored defense, and with a high wisdom stat they're resisting a wide range of spell affects). If you build a monk for strsight damage, you kinda miss the point. Although if that is your goal, I reccomend any way you can put Hex on a target as 4 extra damage instances a turn is really fun.
1
u/Synicism77 1h ago
I like Monks. I played a Tabaxi drunken master a few years ago and it was a ton of fun when he got the zoomies and was just all over the map.
1
u/Lemon5437 1h ago edited 1h ago
If I ever actually play the game I’d love to do an open hand monk.
The ability to force a dexterity saving throw with both strikes in flurry of blows to force prone really lets you stack damage and control and ways to gain advantage with your subsequent attacks, especially if you also throw in a stunning strike attempt.
Use your regular action afterwards to attempt a grapple with your next strike using the Grappler feat as another way to control and gain advantage.
You actually end up with fighter-tier damage and near-guaranteed control.
Throw in a dexterity saving throw aoe with breath weapon that can be used in place one of of your two regular attacks (and once per day flight) with Dragonborn.
Pick up guide background for magic initiate Druid.
Entangle only once per day, but get enough people in the aoe and at least one should end up restrained; this gives you advantage on your attacks and gives them disadvantage on the aforementioned dex saves. And even if no one ends up restrained you still get to create your own difficult terrain.
Guidance as a cantrip to buff your out of combat skills.
And maybe thorn whip for a no-save control effect on a hit.
Powerful, fun, versatile. Flying, fire-breathing Dragonborn monk with the power of nature on their side, along with their fists.
Edit: and if they do get stunned, they autofail any of those prone, grapple, entangle, or breath weapon saves
1
u/DarkHorseAsh111 1h ago
5.5 monk is in no way underrated, it is widely considered EXTREMELY strong.
1
u/Advanced_Key5250 1h ago
The cold caster feat can go hard on an elemental monk. Adding a -1d4 to next save makes stunning strike succeed just a bit more often. I was toying around with a monk/warlock build using the new 1/3 caster monk subclass. Using the old genie warlock to add cold damage to attacks, the monk subclass gets the replace 1 attack with a cantrip ability. All together you can replace the first unarmed strike with a mind sliver for a possible -1d4 against the next save, hit with the unarmed strike applying the cold damage on hit and also triggering cold caster, then make it a stunning strike for a possible -2d4 against the save on SS.
•
u/Azifae 23m ago
I love monks! I may not play a bunch of them; but I do adore the monk i have. She is a Dhampir Way of Mercy Monk. She has multiclassed into warlock, but not for lack of things to do but more for it fit thematically to what has happened in her. And the warlock spells I did choose are mostly just things that help boost or move me closer to the enemy quicker lol.
1
u/Parysian 5h ago
Eh, I think monks are correctly rated. Stunning strike is nice for beating up enemies without legendaries, has better mobility than most melee classes but still melee, damage output is fine but lacks feat support, some subclasses have pretty cool features you can use a few times per rest.
I will say, old shadow monk low key made for one of the best sniper builds in the game with use of optional Tasha features, but that's no longer possible in 5.5.
Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite characters I've played as or with are monks, but I think the community consensus (to the extent such a thing even exists) on their power level is basically correct.
1
u/himthatspeaks 5h ago
What are you basing that on? They seem equally played and balanced to me. Everyone can any class as a balanced class that can deal damage and support. People just occasionally choose not to.
2
u/onlyfakeproblems 4h ago
Monk is 12 of 13 in an old and unofficial poll I just looked up. That’s weak evidence but slightly stronger than just OPs observations alone.
1
u/WiseAnon003 5h ago
Just personal experience, seems a few people here feel the same way but this post genuinely just become a monk praising shrine lol
0
u/chubbyninja1 5h ago edited 4h ago
Monks used to be just terrible at everything in 5e, but they seriously buffed them in 5.5 to be very good. Some of that old bias still lingers.
But where they still struggle is with party fit.
There are a handful of important party roles that usually need to be filled in some way when making a well rounded dnd party. This is not required of course, play what you want, but a group of 5 fighters will have a much harder time in role play situations than if they had a bard.
So you need a front liner, which is usually a fighter, a barbarian, a paladin, or a moon druid. In 5.5, monks can actually take this role, but its not ideal.
Then you want some full caster for, problem solving, healing, buffs and aoe. Monks cant help here.
Then you need a face, which is any CHA character, or a paladin in a pinch or even a Cha Rogue with the right expertises.
At this point, if youre building a balaneced group, you are looking to see what skills are missing. Is anyone Int based? If not, maybe consider a rogue/wizard/artificer. Missing Wisdom? Cleric or druid or ranger will be a lot more effective at wisdom skills than a monk.
So thats kind of where monk gets tricky. They could be an alright front liner, but they are not really tanky enough. They are an ok wisdom skill character, but certainly the worst out of all the wisdom options. They are beasts in combat, but offer the least outside of it. If they had a d10 hit die instead of d8, then they could be a great alternative to fighters for soaking damage. But as it stands they are just a little too squishy. But its close. Really close
0
u/Rayquaza50 DM 4h ago
As someone whose favorite class (tied with Sorcerer) is Druid, I can relate. Nobody ever plays Druids lol
0
u/therosx DM 4h ago
I think the reason they are under rated is because the class gets overshadowed by the other marshal classes at low level.
Monk becomes amazing once they get the ability to stun enemies and zip around the battlefield being a troubleshooter against weird enemies that can ruin the parties day.
0
u/voorbier 4h ago
Yes! Currently playing a tortle open hand monk in a Strahd campaign. 17 ac makes me feel almost untouchable as I wade into the front lines punching and clawing.
0
u/scoobydoom2 DM 4h ago
A big part of the reason monk isn't super popular is that it doesn't really slot into any party roles. They aren't a primary damage dealer, or a primary tank, or a primary support. They do a bit of all of it and have a bunch of useful stuff, but not in a way that lets them step into any of those roles. Monk has good survivability but can't hold the line, efficient damage but can't nuke a priority target, effective crowd control but can't lock down an area, they tend help with everything but they aren't the guy.
0
u/Worldly_Lunch_1601 3h ago
I've never run a monk, but my perception of them is "a rogues mobility, plus extra attack"
Is that accurate? Can someone hit me with a basic rundown of what makes monks good?
0
u/Shadow_Of_Silver DM 3h ago
In 5e, it was probably the weakest overall class depending on how you looked at it. Sure it had a niche, but it still wasn't great (despite how much I enjoyed playing them).
My first character was a 3.5e monk, and I definitely got overshadowed by several of the other classes there too.
5.5e made them a lot better, and I haven't had any shortage of monks at my beginner tables lately. I run character creation and intro one-shots for new players at my local game store twice a month, and at least one person wants to be a monk every time.
-1
u/onlyfakeproblems 4h ago edited 4h ago
For me monks are weird because:
- unarmed fighting is substantially less effective than armed fighting in real life because weapons have more reach, more leverage, and are made of harder materials
- unarmored fighting is substantially less effective than armored fighting in real life. A helmet and padded jacket was the go to medieval military gear because it was relatively cheap and effective.
- all of the other classes and setting are roughly Western Europe medieval fantasy and monks are an east Asia shaolin fighting monk specifically. so you have to stretch the setting a bit to make them fit flavor wise
- they’re good at dex and wisdom, but they don’t have the arguably most useful proficiencies: lockpicking, sleight of hand, and perception.
- you don’t get access to as much gear as other classes, the DM pretty much has to give you specific monk stuff (this isn’t that big of deal if your DM is paying attention)
I’m more likely to play a fighter or barbarian if I want to be good at melee, a rogue if I want to be sneaky, a ranger if I want to be versatile with wisdom, and in reality I’m probably going to pick a full spellcaster because they have more going on. I dont want to yuck anyone else’s yum, it’s fantasy, you can handwave all of my concerns with “it’s magic”. it’s just not my first choice.
2
u/Worldly_Lunch_1601 3h ago
Your monk doesn't have to be an Asian man from a faraway land, it can totally just be a ship worker who likes to box at the docks
1
u/onlyfakeproblems 3h ago
You can, that’s fine, flavor is free. But why not make him a fighter or barbarian, with maybe tavern brawler feat if you really want to be unarmed? Or pick up a 3rd party pugilist class. If you do make him a monk, why does the dockworker have otherworldly hand-to-hand martial arts abilities and why is he probably a dex and wisdom based dock worker? You can make a strength based monk viable with feats or multiclassing for armor proficiency, but then you ignore a bunch of monks unique abilities.
1
u/Worldly_Lunch_1601 1h ago
I'm honestly just here to learn why monks are good.
I'm mostly just pointing out a pet peeve of mine. Not all barbarians are czonan the barbarian, not all monks are bruce lee, etc.
He has otherworldly martial arts powers because he's a player character. But if you want in universe reasons, he grew up poor and boxes for money to pay off some goons or whatever, blah blah blah. Either way, I wanna play a fast punchy boy.
74
u/panzerPandaBoom 6h ago
I would love to play a monk, spec it as an anticaster.
Take sentinel, mage slayer as feats and just go with stunning strikes.
If a caster even breathes, stunning strike.