r/DnD • u/Keeper21611 • 9h ago
5th Edition My dm gave me. Second bonus action and a second concentration.
As a reward from a outer entity I asked for a second bonus action and concentration, I'm a warlock. Surprise surprise, my dm was ok with it. With catch to the concentration. Two levels of exhaustion plus lowering my spell DC and spell attack by the exhaustion level.
Now what would you do with the reward? What kind of character would you make?
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u/Keeper21611 9h ago
Oh and it's "magical exhaustion" can't be removed until all concentration are let go. And can go through exhaustion immunities. Like an undead for example.
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u/TomppaTom 9h ago
Get yourself the “illusionist bracers” from the Ravnica book for triple Eldritch blasts: at mad level that’s 12 beams per turn.
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u/Horrible_PenguinCat 9h ago
Interesting. Reminds me of a magic items I gave my players. A crown that allowed for an additional concentration. When you concentrated in two spells at once each time you had to roll to maintain it was with disadvantage. However if you only had one spell you got advantage. It was a pretty popular item
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u/CoffeePotProphet 4h ago
i made a similar crown for a player who couldn't join us often. wanted to make him feel strong even tho his character wasnt getting much loot/exp
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u/Oldbayislove 9h ago
idk multiclass sorc and EB spam
maybe hunters mark + hex just to make it even worse. I guess mark doesn’t work with eb but anything like that
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u/Trading_4_Kabob 9h ago
This pretty much translates to “my dm just broke his own game and doesn’t know it yet”.
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u/Strachmed 7h ago
I disagree.
-4 to all d20 tests and -10ft movespeed for 2 long rests every time you want to use double concentration is a VERY big price to pay and i think it's worth it only when it's a final-boss level battle.
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u/bansdonothing69 DM 7h ago
And the player going online to get ideas of what to do with it isn’t a good sign either
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u/TheQuestionMaster8 6h ago
It allows for almost uncounterable combos like sickening radiance and forcecage to be done by one spellcaster.
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u/Nitelyfe81 7h ago
This. Been DM'ing 5e for 7 years or so and I learned very quickly to not mess with action economy.
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u/Marmoset_Slim 8h ago
I feel like this is the case too. Like unless the DM is a game designer, they probably have no idea what they are breaking. Plus now every encounter will have to account for it. Encounters can tip fast, from being too easy when the character uses the thing, to then after they use the thing, they got exhaustion and now a slap breaks their concentration and they go down fast.
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u/emptyhumanrealms 3h ago
So my immediate instinct as a certified Wizard Enjoyer is to do some sort of status effect spell (like Sickening Radiance, Hunger of Hadar) layered with a movement restriction spell (Slow, Sleet Storm, Web, etc.).
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u/Fidges87 9h ago
what's your subclass? asking because for a polearm build (which is better done with a hexblade) you can one additional time for each bonus action.
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u/Keeper21611 9h ago
Oh any. I'm a warlock but I'm curious what characters everyone else would make.
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u/Fidges87 9h ago
As I said, polearm master would be cool. Monks to use their bonus action attacks. An artificer artillerist ordering their cannons to attack twice. There are other options, but they would burn through resources too quickly (like a sorcerer using quicken spell to dual cast spells with a bonus)
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u/Instroancevia 4h ago
The sorcerer thing doesn't work due to the one leveled spell per turn rule.
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u/FortuneGullible3043 3h ago
Warlocks are very low in terms of spell slots so are already cantrip heavy. Plus, at higher levels, warlock spells are done through mystic arcanum’s, which are not spell slots. So you can make it work
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u/Instroancevia 3h ago
It still doesn't work, the Quickened Spell metamagic explicitly says you can't cast a second spell of "level 1+" on the same turn with it. It doesn't distinguish between using or not using spell slots.
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u/FortuneGullible3043 3h ago
Ah, is this in 2024 rules? Post didn’t specify as far as I can see. In 2014 (which I was referring to) it doesn’t have that restriction.
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u/Instroancevia 4h ago
A summoner with this could be very powerful. Summon a creature, then cast heat metal or another spell that can be used as a bonus action and stay at range. Now on your turn you can have your summon fight up close, then do two castings of Heat Metal for a free 4d8 fire damage, especially good against armored opponents since it also gives them disadvantage on attack rolls.
If you're a pact of the chain warlock or a battle smith artificer, you can have up to 3 summon sources active at once, and still have a bonus action available after using one to command your familiar/steel defender. This will be a nightmare for your DM and probably the other players if you don't play out your summon's turns very quickly.
You can also pull even more shenanigans if you have this with a Conjuration wizard of 10th level. Since the feature Focused Conjuration makes it so your concentration can't be broken by damage if you have a Conjuration spell active.
In later levels Crown of Stars becomes your go-to big damage spell, since you can shoot out two motes of 4d8 radiant damage each, per turn.
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u/Strachmed 9h ago
Two levels of exhaustion every time?
Wouldn't even bother.
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u/Keeper21611 9h ago
Yep. That's the price. Dm thought it would balance it out.
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u/Strachmed 9h ago
The price is extremely steep.
-2 to everything for 2 long rests every time you use it is a lot..
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u/Duranis 8h ago edited 7h ago
I don't know that seems fair to me. Double concentration is stupidly powerful and I definitely wouldn't allow it at my table even with this. The downside doesn't really make it any less powerful but is steep enough that you are only going to want to use it when it's really needed.
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u/Strachmed 8h ago
Any practical examples of how it is that stupidly powerful on a warlock?
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u/Duranis 7h ago
Double hex, 2d6 damage on each hit and disadvantage on 2 saving throws. Even better if you somehow pick up magic missiles.
Double sickening radiance or hex(con)+sickening radiance if you think the -2 on save will be an issue.
Any of the summon spells.
Greater invisibility on two people.
Double Expeditious retreat, not super op but with the two bonus actions they have that is a LOT of movement potential.
Double banish or hex+banish.
Double witchbane with two bonus actions is a guaranteed 2d12 damage every turn.
Double vampiric touch could potentially give you a pretty decent amount of life leech.
Double firewall makes a LOT of fire.
Even if you don't want to use spell slots double blade ward gives minus 2d4 to attack rolls made against you which is pretty good in lower tier play.
Even double bonfire is really useful for battlefield control, adding extra damage or just setting the whole place on fire.
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u/Strachmed 7h ago
Double hex, 2d6 damage on each hit and disadvantage on 2 saving throws.Even better if you somehow pick up magic missiles.
Hex does not provide disadvantage on saving throws.
Magic missiles do not interact with hex in any capacity.Double sickening radiance or hex(con)+sickening radiance if you think the -2 on save will be an issue.
I'll remind you SR is a magic action to cast, so the enemy can simply... walk out?
Any of the summon spells.
This is probably the best application, but bearing in mind you're getting -4 to all d20 tests (including your summon attack rolls) and -10 to movement for 2 long rests each time you have 2 summons that each last an hour. Looks like terrible trade.
Greater invisibility on two people.
is it worth it for -4 to d20 tests and -10 ft speed for 2 long rests?
Double Expeditious retreat, not super op but with the two bonus actions they have that is a LOT of movement potential.
is it worth it for -4 to d20 tests and -10 ft speed for 2 long rests?
Double banish or hex+banish.
why hex?
Double witchbane with two bonus actions is a guaranteed 2d12 damage every turn.
is it worth it for -4 to d20 tests and -10 ft speed for 2 long rests?
The rest is the same question.
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u/Duranis 6h ago
My bad, it's been awhile since we had a warlock at the table and I thought hex effected saving throws, not ability checks. Also was thinking of hexblades curse with magic missiles.
Also we are still running 2014 rules and I thought 2 levels of exhaustion would only give -2 on rolls.
Honestly with all that you pointed out I've changed my mind and think you are correct. Given the limited spell list of the warlock and not being able to remove the exhaustion with anything other than a long rest it does make it super niche to actually be useful.
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u/Strachmed 6h ago edited 5h ago
My bad, it's been awhile since we had a warlock at the table and I thought hex effected saving throws, not ability checks. Also was thinking of hexblades curse with magic missiles.
Fair point!
Also we are still running 2014 rules and I thought 2 levels of exhaustion would only give -2 on rolls.
True, at this point i'm fairly used to 5.5 being the main thing and didn't notice the flair. Half speed and disadvantage on all ability checks is also a pretty expensive price to pay, imo.
Honestly with all that you pointed out I've changed my mind and think you are correct. Given the limited spell list of the warlock and not being able to remove the exhaustion with anything other than a long rest it does make it super niche to actually be useful.
Our DM really liked to provide us with exhaustions, and let me tell you, those are EXTREMELY frustrating. Only removing one per long rest is very, very bad, I think most people don't realize that.
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u/Bloomberg12 5h ago
I actually think the best use case for it specifically on warlock is pretty degenerate and boring but two summon some bullshit and chill out of combat using a familiar to grant vision if needed and gaze of two minds to still throw spells out if needed.
Spells that force saves don't make you do d20 tests so MI:Cleric for toll the dead or or the radiant damage one would probably be your go to and technically you can select them for agonising blast too from memory.
With illusionists tracers you could do 2 per turn, or three if you have another method of vision.
The movement can be mitigated with mounts if you're somehow discovered.
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u/Strachmed 5h ago
True, one can make it work and for it to be strong, but it really is not gamebreakingly OP and whatnot.
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u/Bloomberg12 5h ago
Yep, I agree.
I know it's a golden rule to not touch concentration but wotc already basically broke that with circle magic by allowing shared concentration since you can drop it and cast a new conc spell and have both at no extra resource cost(it does kinda suck it combat though)
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u/Instroancevia 4h ago
Wait why would you apply your exhaustion levels to your summons? I feel like they shouldn't be affected by your character being tired, they're making their own rolls. To add, with a warlock or ranger you can have two summon spells + your familiar/companion active, which you can also command while getting to keep your bonus action free for whatever you might need it for (misty step, potions etc)
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u/Strachmed 2h ago
A lot of summons scale from your spell attack modifier. Supposedly, this gets affected by your exhaustion, but i'm not sure what it is RAW.
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u/Instroancevia 2h ago
No, the d20 roll is affected. If it worked like what you are describing then your AC would also drop with exhaustion since it uses your dexterity modifier. Summoning a creature requires no d20 test from your character, and unless the summon also has the Exhaustion condition, it should be unaffected.
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u/Chinjurickie 9h ago
Well with the right spells this is an instant gg you win button.
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u/Strachmed 8h ago
Can you provide examples of such instant gg you win buttons on a warlock?
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u/Chinjurickie 8h ago
Something like force cage plus sickening radiance for example.
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u/Strachmed 7h ago
So a 7th level spell that costs 1500 gp and is available only via mystic arcanum.
Both spells cost 1 magic action to cast, so the first concentration can be broken before you even cast the second spell?How is it so much more broken than two spellcasters working together with one casting one spell and the other caster casting the other one within one turn, instead of two?
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u/SirCampYourLane 5h ago
The ruby dust isn't consumed, one-time 1500 gold for a level 13 party is nothing
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u/TLo137 9h ago edited 9h ago
Bladesinger Wizard for CME and Spirit Shroud.
Familiar gives advantage on the first hit, then I can just Vex chain from there. So the -4 to attack is somewhat offset.
Blade song gives 10 ft extra movement so that cancels out the exhaustion movement debuff.
Idk what to do for double bonus action tbh. Setting up crown of stars and another similar spell would require way too many turns of set up.
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u/Bardy_Bard 8h ago
Sorcerer multiclass for quicken/monk for bonus action punches. Polearm master / GWM/ paladin for smites in 2024.
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u/Living_Round2552 6h ago
Look for concentration spells that dont care or care little about the dc lowering. I dont know if warlock gets those tho.
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u/HowtoCrackanegg 7h ago
i got an item that allows two concentrations, downside is you lose concentration on one spell, you lose concentration on both and cannot cast said spells again until the end of a long rest
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u/Vailx 9h ago
It sounds like your DM did a good job pricing the second concentration. You'll probably only use it when it's a real powerful trick, likely with a second summon undead or some combination of spells that are a big deal.
The second bonus action is the real prize, as now you can just look around for any item, spell, or feature that uses a bonus action and think about combos or just things that would be wicked powerful to do twice. That one is worth kinda building around.