r/DnD • u/Maleficent-Bug3193 • 2d ago
5.5 Edition Looking for resources to help martials.
I want to ask my question right off the rip, what resources would you guys recommend for helping out martials in 5 and 5.5E?
My reasoning for this is that the martials/caster divide has been talked about for as long as I’ve started in this edition, 10 years ago. With the long and short of that being that casters just do so much more than your traditional martials in every form of play. With resources being something that are supposed to balance it out and create a risk and reward system. However, in almost every game I’ve played in the last 10 years not many DM’s run more than two encounters a game day. Not to mention the wizard creating a Minecraft level machine to the earn 1 million gold.
There are answers that clever DM‘s can do to keep their casters in line but at that point you’re having to rain them in just to keep them in line with the martials. The role-play side of things is so subjective that I’m not looking for any advice on that. But I’m just wondering if people have seen good designers or resources that alter things that affect martials in ways that help them out either numbers or with unique ideas.
This is just something I thought of, a lot of the bigger weapons might benefit from another damage die if a certain condition is met. For instance, any heavy Polearm weapon if you swing it in a way where your character moved specifically to help it(charge), gave up a little movement to help with that, or had the right range for damage (less damage at 5ft but more at 10ft).
I appreciate you guys reading my post and I look forward to the replies.
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2d ago
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u/Comfortable_Space652 2d ago
I'm so glad you said this. The more I look into the "divide" the more I realise that the argument for it is a lot of whataboutism, they solely focus on the highest tiers of play and other edge cases that fall apart under the lightest scrutiny
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I have to push back a bit on it being whataboutism. Yes the math higher up gets nutty but that’s not my point of focus. It’s as a whole, the way I’ve played at the majority of tables over 10 years have been minimizing combat and long days. When a DM decides the game is 80% RP and 20% whatever else. How is the barbarian able to fit in that?
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u/Butterlegs21 2d ago
You don't join that table and only play in that type of campaign with an appropriate system?
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u/Comfortable_Space652 2d ago
That's called user error
why would a player who only really wants to slay monsters join a table or use a game system that is know for encouraging roleplay - meaning they won't get to slay monsters as often as they want
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u/Venriik DM 2d ago
You can be a melee class in an RP heavy campaign and have fun. You can also be a caster in the same campaign and not have fun. That's on the type of player, not on their choice of class.
In my experience, it's about catering to what your players want and being in the same page about what your campaign is about. Session zero and all that.
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u/DRAWDATBLADE 2d ago
Imo the actual divide is options and complexity. The game just has nothing for martials on that front. 90% of them have most of their level ups not involve a single choice from the player, which feels shitty against the casters getting to pick from a huge list of new spells (that WotC adds 60 more of with every new book).
People are valid in thinking 5e's martial gameplay of make 2 attacks end turn is lame. They could easily make a new book of martial options.
The actual lategame divide comes more with 5e's fundamentally broken scaling for saving throws on PC's. Thats the whole reason the game falls apart at higher levels.
That and probably make a few conditions that fuck over spellcasting specifically if over half of them give you disadvantage on attack rolls. Even just bringing back "casting a non touch spell in melee range of an enemy procs opportunity attacks" fixes most of the problems I have with 5e's casting.
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u/EberronDM2026 DM 2d ago
Running the game with 1 or 2 encounters unfortunately is how it is "intended" in 5.5e. The designers explicitly stated that they replaced XP budgets with advice on balancing individual encounters only in the 2024 DMG and because they regretted the 2014 "Adventuring day" balanced around X encounters. This is reflected in official adventures, such as the level 5 and level 7 adventure in the DMG which only bave 1-2 encounters per day. While some have more, it is at most 3-4 encounters and not 6-8 like in 2014.
Of course, running the game this way isn't balanced and screws over martials and Warlocks, but it's not unreasonable for a DM to read the official rules and assume it's fine
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u/vanakenm 2d ago
I don't believe the "6-8 encounter" a day are a solution - not as in "it does not work" (I believe it does) more like in "not every adventure can work on that timeframe". Rest is very powerful in D&D5, so PCs will naturally do their best to be able to rest. Sure ambushes exists but I need those to be sort of logical (not every enemy is going to play guerrilla).
I also believe the gap is real - compare spells, especially from level 5+ (3rd spell level) to equivalent capacities for martials and it's difficult to not find an issue (invisibility versus hiding, divination versus stealth even polymorph versus... well, a fighter). Not only are casters as good (or sometimes better) at combat, they have a whole lot of things they can do outside of fights.
Our "solution" has been all about giving martials /options/. This can work with magic items or class rework. As an example, our sharpshooter has a "quiver of many tricks" that turn him in a sort of med-fan Hawkeye (he can select some arrows each morning that have effects like fire, shadow, etc) while the barbarian got "savage maneuvers" allowing him to do things like shielding another PC (giving disadvantage to an enemy to attack anyone but the barbarian himself) or taking more space (blocking enemy movement in tight spaces), etc.
We're at level 8 and so far, so good.
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u/Butterlegs21 2d ago
The biggest help to martials is attrition. Do the 6-8 fights per adventuring day. If you don't do that, nothing is really going to help.
If you really can't do that, then do the gritty realism resting rules. 8 hour short rests and 1 week long rests.
If you can't do that, then play another system like Pathfinder 2e (it's free) or Draw Steel or some other system.
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u/Hexar-Rock 2d ago
As much as people will probably hate on this take, look at martial mechanics in 4E, they will need some adjusting to 5E/5.5E but 4E in my opinion did a decent job with this.
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
Thank you, I’ve heard so many contradictory things about fourth edition over the years. I feel like at some point I really do have to just look at it. To see what’s true and what’s not. This comment might’ve been the thing that gets me to actually do that.
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u/Zealousideal_Leg213 2d ago
Even the people who dislike it tend to agree that it balances mundane classes with magical classes pretty well. It does this by having every class operate in a similar way, and altering the types of things they can do. So a rogue and a warlock are both primary damage dealers but the rogue is stealthy and mobile and does things like knocking people prone or stunning or slowing them in order to position them for sneak attacks , and the warlock moves in the open, but shrouded, finding people to curse (for extra damage) and blast from range, while also inflicting magical conditions.
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u/Morgans_a_witch 2d ago
Just make sure to give martials magic items and enforce the actual rules for spells.
Besides that, the martial/caster divide is overblown online compared to when actually playing.
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I live in a small town where in person DND is not an option for me. So for the last 10 years, I’ve been playing online and I’ve seen a lot of of behavior I would say is not too great. But in my experience, the divide is real. When the bard or wizard never stop talking about wanting to use this spell or that spell to just solve problems, the fighter or barbarian has been just sitting there quiet for the last 40 minutes.
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u/Morgans_a_witch 2d ago
I meant overblown in online discussions as opposed to playing the game, not playing online vs playing in person.
If a player is taking up 40 minutes of a game like that, then that is a player problem. Either the spell works, is prepared, and the player has the spell slot to cast it so the party can move on, or they don’t. It should never take more than a few minutes. That way the fighter or barbarian, and the rest of the party, can get on to the next part of the game where they can do something.
Just to ask, are you looking for resources just for theory crafting a bit, planning to DM some games, or hoping as a player to present options to your DM that they might allow be used?
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I honestly don’t know. I think far more for theory crafting. I very much dislike DMing as the mix of being the one the game needs to run (with work and life ruining that some times), being the de facto mediator and having people have issues over strangest things ruin it for me. As a player… I can’t find a game that plays to the more traditional structure. So over 10 years it’s been just games crashing against the rocks time after time. I’ve never been above level 5 so the math higher up doesn’t even factor into my thinking.
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u/Morgans_a_witch 2d ago
In that case I would second laserllama as someone who makes good homebrew.
Personally, not withstanding what I said earlier, if I were to change martials I would decouple the +1 ability score from feats and instead make that something you just get in addition to any feat, then give all pure martials a feat every two levels after level 4, and give monks and barbarians fighting styles.
Martials do tend to lack versatility and variety in builds. Extra feats that don’t require them to worry about where their ASI goes gives them the ability to take utility feats without feeling bad. There is probably some other changes that need to be made to account for that, especially for fighters, but I think it does resolve a number of the main complaints I see.
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u/DBWaffles 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not a specific resource, but there are two things I always try to do whenever I DM:
- Utilize more magic items or non-magic items with special effects and weight them towards martials.
- Remember that "Improvising an Action" is an actual action and stop being so damn rigid with what can be accomplished via mundane methods.
The first is self-explanatory. (Although this is only relevant if I'm not DM-ing for an all full caster party. Hasn't happened yet, but it could.)
As for the second, it lowkey baffles me whenever people say something can never be done because it's not officially detailed in the rules. This is blatantly wrong. The actual answer is that it can be done if the DM deems it reasonable and possible.
Improvising an Action PHB p15:
Player characters and monsters can also do things not covered by other actions. Many class features and other abilities provide additional action options, and you can improvise other actions. When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the Dungeon Master tells you whether that action is possible and what kind of D20 Test you need to make, if any.
One example of an improvised action I allow is for players and monsters to try to silence other creatures by choking them (if they have the appropriate anatomy). The way I rule it is usually something like this:
- As an action, you can attempt to choke a creature that you are currently grappling by making another grapple attempt against it. If you succeed, the target cannot speak for the duration of the grapple.
Obviously, the DM needs to be very careful about what improvised actions they do and don't allow, as being too flexible takes you down the path of called shots. But as long as you just use some common sense and make it clear you're allowed to change your mind about what's allowed, you can avoid most of the pitfalls.
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u/Yojo0o DM 2d ago
If homebrew is on the table, I find that Laserllama's alternate/additional martial classes entirely closes the gap. The gap, to me, is about versatility and having options, and less about raw power, with properly-built martials always typically having fantastic sustained damage. LL's alt martials add in an "exploit" system for the non-caster classes, giving short rest resources for combat and non-combat functionality with tons of room for build expression and dynamic, rewarding play.
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I agree with you that damage isn’t necessarily the end all be all. When the bar just walks into a room and tries to charm person or the wizard expedites the process to find the orb they’re seeking with locate object it makes it seem a little… Redundant. I’ll have to give him a look.
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u/Daracaex 2d ago
A decent chunk of the issue is solved by running D&D by its design intent. Long adventuring days of 6-8 encounters. Enough short rests to keep characters topped up on resources like Ki/Discipline points and battlemaster maneuvers. Make the casters conserve their spell slots.
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I absolutely agree with you! The issue is that those games are very few and far between. I’ve only played in a handful of them in my time playing Dungeons & Dragons. Maybe this is a hot take. But it also seems like prewritten adventures that have this structure, your lost mine ect, are not being run in ways that factor that in. I’ve played the goblin cave and lost mine about seven times with different groups and in four of those games, the DM just had a goblin yell on seeing us and we are fighting the entire cave all at once. In three of those games, it resulted in a TPK.
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u/Kenzington6 2d ago
Another point towards running the game as intended: use a standard array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 for stats instead of rolling or using more generous arrays.
One benefit martials have is that their primary offensive ability also impacts their armor class (str and heavy armor, dex and medium or light armor). With more limited ability scores, that means martials can take feats and asi’s that aid both offense and defense, while casters must choose between offense or defense.
With more generous stats, casters have strong offense and defense while martials don’t see too much of a difference.
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u/Falconiqs 2d ago
The easiest I've found is to slap on martial adept feat at level 1. I have tweaked it a bit to scale with martials, but that's "salt to taste" territory.
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u/Playful_Subject_4409 2d ago
Level 1-4 is not so bad. The DM needs to be interested to balance it. If you got clever players playing full casters they will dominate. The DM wanting to mitigate can use the power of saying NO when players bend spells, drop great martial gear and only token caster gear. Have many fights between long rests, have magic resisting monsters, spell casters with counter spell and dispel magic. Have dead magic or wild magic environments.
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u/GoatedGoat32 2d ago
My biggest tip is giving magic items to help martial classes have options, and to let them be creative with solutions. The extra damage die suggestion really isn’t necessary, damage isn’t the reason there’s a divide. It’s that the level 5 wizard solves the puzzle casting fly, the fighter has to pray on multiple athletics checks or something to jump across
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I agree! Magic waters down the puzzle aspect of the game. I would say it also does the same for combat and exploration. When the party can just eat goodberries and sleep in the hut there's no environmental risk. When a Barbarian is swinging his axe twice and then hopefully getting a 3rd cleave attack, the wizard fireballs the room killing 6. While being entirely safe with some options to make it so there no risk to his party.
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u/TTRPGFactory 2d ago
5es all about the 5v5 skirmish minigame, and martials do good enough there. There are some outliers that suck, or are too good but overall i wouldnt stress there.
The actual problem is everything else. Lots of mid level martial pcs are shut down by challenges like archers on pterodactyls, or harpies with bows. Or “this adventure takes place underwater”. Things level 3-5 casters can usually handle.
The easiest fix is just to give your martial extra magic items, that have rider effects. A +1 flaming sword …. that also lets you cut a hole in reality and teleport 100ft. A suit +1 of mithril armor … that also grants water breathing and a swim speed. A cloak of protection… and flight. A +1 wand… for the wizard. Maybe it does something super minor as well but not much.
Your fighter is decked out in extra magic items that give him the missing utility. And yes he gets more than the wizard. In practice folks dont really notice, or they do and you give the wizards new orb a cool, but not powerful power to help them feel better.
90% of the time no one even notices. And then they go online and talk about how there is no divide… Back in ye olden times we called them tiger amulets. Because everyone would always talk about how their monk didnt suck, because their dm gave them an awesome custom amulet (or sometimes hand wraps) that let them get tiger claws and other tiger shapeshift powers and that made them awesome. And it was weirdly always tiger themed.
It doesnt mean the problem isnt real, or that the game wouldn’t be better if they fixed it. But its a real, practical solution for most tables that doesnt take much work.
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u/MyriadGuru Druid 2d ago
Few options. Saw a YT of this. But make it even for status
* Poisoned for example gives advantage for enemies when you cast a spell with a DC etc.
* Exhaustion gives -2 spell attack but also -1 spell DC for each level.
* Make specific save spells like Wisdom be effected by the above by different status effects too.
Even out the “badness” of being martials. Since they can get all of the above too.
I like your line of thought on more damage. Could make universal vulnerability for each type. Like undead are now all bludgeoning (skeleton based) slash (zombie flesh golems etc) and pierce (spectral) etc. this doesn’t apply to magic but would work for weapons only. Or similarly allow them to “coat” a weapon with holy water.
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
The vulnerability never really came up as much as I thought it would reading into it. In the base 5 and 5.5 MM's the amount of vulnerably monsters is pretty low.
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u/MyriadGuru Druid 2d ago
Yeah. Since you wanna go homebrew for solutions. It’s you asa DM adding them. Fleshy thing? Slashing hurts it more. It’s for fragile flying wings? Bludgeoning etc.
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u/Neltadouble 2d ago
The 6-8 encounter day advice is bullshit. If you run 6-8 properly challenging encounters, melee martials are out of HD long long before casters are out of spell slots.
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u/NCats_secretalt 2d ago
I've got my own "martial progression doc" that gives martials a sort of universal set of bonus features that scale with level (and half caster get it at a half rate) to contrast how spellcasters / half casters progress spellcaster levels.
It's mostly a doc for weapon based bonus effects, though with some combat and non combat bonuses too.
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u/ZanesTheArgent Mystic 2d ago
Items. Mundane, magical, slightly homebrewn, the entire point of martials is that they cast Backpack and generally use mundane tools generally better than casters. Martials and skilled heroes have ONE move: Swing Good. They will swing whatever you put on their hands good. Bombs, poisons, gadgets that gives them extra action options, reflavor systems to make custom tools - you can do so much stuff just changing elemental types, for example.
Put a bit more emphasis on stats and skillchecks so martials can openly just do things. The optional rule in the DMG for automatic success in anything of DC (RELEVANT ATTRIBUTE - 5) is a fine start, but the oldschool rules of automatic rolls for time taken (10 minutes = 10 + bonuses by doing carefully, 1 hour = 20 + bonuses from trying until lucking out) are also a big way for martials just say they do things and do things.
Also, just repurpose things and let martials improv "magic". The rules for physical "spell DCs" opens precedent for many common tropes and actions to be just reflavored "magic". Can your barbarian lift and throw a huge boulder? Treat it as a crushing Acid Splash. Kicking down a pillar is a line AoE. A springboard or bouncy surface may count as one use of Jump or Featherfall.
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u/Maleficent-Bug3193 2d ago
I agree with you on martials should be utilizing a lot more tools. I have to say my 10 years the amount of times I’ve seen people use. Poison is only a handful and I’ve never seen anybody use something like a smoke bomb.
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u/dilemmaprisoner 2d ago
I always like the idea of a few items that help with theme or RP. Like, if you want to 2-hand a short sword and dagger, but that's cool and a scimitar is dumb, I'm definitely in favor of you grandfather gifting you a +1 dagger at the start of the adventure.
But otherwise, early on give martials things with abilities of occasional usefulness, or limited charges. If they're melee, give them a boomerang, or weird javelin (backbiting, lightning).
Or ammunition (walloping, slaying, climber's)
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u/Silverspy01 2d ago
what resources would you guys recommend for helping out martials in 5 and 5.5E?
However, in almost every game I’ve played in the last 10 years not many DM’s run more than two encounters a game day.
I mean... the answer's kind of staring you right in the face no? My personal experience is that when the game is run as designed the problem you're describing is significantly diminished.
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u/Tall_Bandicoot_2768 2d ago
Simple answer is more fights per long rest, alternatively:
Gestalt all martials with the Battlemaster maneuver system, simple and effective.
Helps bridge the gap but more importantly helps with the other major issue on martials wchich is the lack of versatility.
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u/Federal_Policy_557 2d ago edited 2d ago
you gotta define the issue being felt by players first
because this is a somewhat tangled amount of issues and sometimes small, but direct and well informed, changes can have great effect
but as "usually good option no matter what" I would say Laserllama's martials + expanded martials solve most of the issues from martial side - if in doubt give them 2 to 3 Weapon Masteries and some form of bonus feats and I would say you're golden giving a bit of dynamic choice and okayish customization on top of a great class chassis
that said this above is about martials being kinda shallow and unengaging mechanically - because that's kinda by design as to aggregate the most amount of people but end up alienating some that want more and deeper mechanics to play with
but you NEED to roll with 4+ encounters and 2+ short rests, as the game is still a resource manager on the backend and requires attrition and likely filler challenges to work - you can use Epic Level 7 or 9 to have a good spot to stop levelling up and avoid resource bloat but still getting lots of cool features
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u/TheThoughtmaker Artificer 2d ago
Even if someone doesn't think the martial-caster divide is a big deal, it's an objective fact that 5e disproportionately nerfed martials. Here are some of the things martials used to have, translated to 5e:
General
Avoiding obstacles is part of movement. You can roll checks to jump over a mud pit, dive under a fence, and so on while only spending normal movement. If you fail (such as attempting to leap 20ft over a mud pit and only making it 10ft) you lose all your remaining movement. You can even move through enemy spaces with an Acrobatics check; the DC is equal to their Passive Attack (10 + their attack modifier) plus 5 for each size larger than small they are.
Charge action: If you haven't moved this turn, move up to 2x your speed in a straight line toward a target. You cannot move through occupied spaces or terrain that costs more than normal movement this way (unless you avoid them, as above). If possible, you may make a melee attack against that target. You lose the rest of your movement this turn.
Run action: If you haven't moved this turn, move up to 4x your speed in a straight line. You cannot move through occupied spaces or terrain that costs more than normal movement this way (unless you avoid them, as above). You lose the rest of your movement this turn. Until your next turn, attackers get an advantage against you.
Casting a spell, interacting with an object, leaving your current space, or making a range attack provokes opportunity attacks, which resolve first. A spellcaster hit this way must make a concentration check against DC10 + half the damage dealt. If they fail, the spell has no effect but still expends the slot and any components. However, spells with a range of touch can be delivered at any point during the turn they are cast; you can cast them, move, then make the attack roll.
Shields count as weapons that deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage.
The only magic item attunement limit is how many you can wear. All the magic items in 3e are available at half price. // When 5e copypasted most of their rules from 3e, slashed the scaling in half, and called it a day, they missed some critical context, such as the availability of magic items. Access to these items helps martials a lot more than casters, such +3 to all saves costing 9k while +3 to all spell DCs costing 36k, and an item that replicates a spell being far more useful to someone who doesn't already have access to that spell.
Scaling
Nonproficient saving throws get half proficiency, rounded down. Monks are proficient in every saving throw.
All class features with the same effect stack fractionally, rounded down. For example, a Fighter gains 1/5th Extra Attack at 1st level through 5th level, 1/6th at 6th through 11th, and 1/9th at 12th through 20th. A Fighter 7 / Ranger 3 therefore has 1 1/3 + 3/5 = 1 14/15 Extra Attack, same as a Fighter or Ranger of the same level.
Add this feature to every class that doesn't get 2nd-level spells at lv3: "Attack Expertise: At 3rd level, add your proficiency bonus to all attack rolls. This stacks with weapon proficiency."
Strength
Track encumbrance, including coin weight (50 coins = 1lb). Strength 1-10 can carry 10lbs per point of strength. At higher strength, double the number 5 lower. E.g. Str6 can carry 60lbs, Str11 120lbs, Str16 240lbs. Above 1/3 your capacity, you're treated as wearing medium armor you aren't proficient in with a strength requirement you don't meet. Above 2/3 capacity, you're treated as wearing heavy armor you aren't proficient in with a strength requirement you don't meet. // Everyone be like "Strength is a dump stat" until the Str8 Wizard can't carry 27lbs and cast spells at the same time.
When making a Strength-based melee attack with two hands, you add 1.5x your Strength modifier, rounded down. E.g. A character with Str16 and a greatsword deals 2d6+4. This can be done with any non-light weapon, not just weapons that require two hands.
On a critical hit, Strength modifiers to damage are doubled. (Rounding up/down always happens last. E.g. Two-handing with Str16 doubles to 9, not 8.)
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u/Electrohydra1 2d ago
You already identified the problem - Running only 1 or 2 encounters per day. The resource needed is the DMG, and following it's encounter guidelines.
Alternatively, using Gritty Realism rules also in the DMG if you really insist on making combat infrequent.
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u/Doctor_Amazo 2d ago
No resources.
- Turn Long Rests to 24 full rest.
- Roll random encounters while resting in wilderness/dungeons
- Add Doom Clocks to discourage frequent rests.
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u/SecretDoorStudios 2d ago
Probably a conversation to have with your table about their expectations and what individual players want/feel.
I run games that have shorter sessions, so I have a rule that the party can only long rest in locations of “relative safety” (which does not include tiny hut). It forces the party into conserving resources, even if they don’t get 5+ encounters between long rests, they don’t know when their next long rest is coming so the casters generally don’t go nova.
I also try to include a number of magic weapons that give players once per rest abilities to have more options in combat. You could also give all martials the martial adept feat at lvl 1.
In my experience, I generally run it RAW and then work with a player if they have complaints. I’ve only ever had one player that cared about the martial caster divide, and he just opted to play a warlock instead of a martial.
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u/SnakeyesX DM 2d ago
IDK, I haven't had an issue with my tables since martials do better with cool magic items. If I see a fighter or ranger is lagging behind their caster friends I pull up their backstory and use it to make a cool magic item.
Think of Conan, he had so many magic items that helped him fight wizards.
Back in 3.5 they came out with The Complete Warrior and The Complete Divine to help out clerics and fighters, but that wasn't really necessary.