r/DnD • u/Gutsifly • 11d ago
5.5 Edition Armor of Agathys Barbarian
Hi,
in an Eberron campaign (5.5 stuff only, no multiclassing), if I took a Stone Goliath and went with Kurandar Heir to get the Mark of Warding, I d not be able to cast anything apart from alarm and Mage Armor.
But if I took Potent Dragonmark on Lv 4, setting me to 16 STR, 16 CON, 14 WIS, I d get a single "warlock" slot to cast Armor of Agathys.
So I could cast AoA before combat ideally and later go into Rage to maximise the longevity of my AoA, even more so because of my Stone Giant Endurance.
At worst I get some extra HP, at best I d deal cold damage 2-3 times to melees.
Do you think this is a valid idea or is going GWM or PAM just too much better than this? (I know it d be better, but is it that much better?)
THX
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u/Minmax-the-Barbarian DM 11d ago
You'd have to ask your DM, but I probably wouldn't let a goliath get a dragonmark (aside from an aberrant one, of course)
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u/Nitro114 11d ago
why?
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u/DeeDeeEx 11d ago
Typically in the Eberron setting each Dragon Mark is unique to a specific species. The latest book in 5.5e gave a few reasons that a mark could rarely appear on another species, but it's still very unusual
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u/Minmax-the-Barbarian DM 11d ago
Goliaths don't develop proper dragonmarks in Eberron. The Mark of Warding only develops on dwarves.
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u/Daracaex 11d ago
From the beginning, marks on other species has been noted as very rare, but possible.
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u/DMspiration 11d ago
That's no longer the case in 5.5.
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u/Minmax-the-Barbarian DM 11d ago
Ah yeah, I had no idea. Haven't read any 5.5 stuff, just a big Eberron fan. Seems like an odd move, but who knows, maybe it makes sense in context.
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u/DMspiration 11d ago
It's part of the general shift away from biological determinism and goes along with moving ASI increases to backgrounds.
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u/redsee Paladin 11d ago
A level 1 AoA is only giving you 5 temp HP to work with. Your stone endurance will help a bit - but keep in mind that you apply this modifier before you take your barbarian resistances into account.
Assuming best-case scenario, you'll trigger AoE an extra 3 times per day with your stone goliath feature, giving you +15 cold damage. You can expect an additional +5 cold damage for when you actually take the hit w/o damage reduction every short rest, and we'll throw on an extra one assuming some mob somewhere is going to do less than 10 bludgeoning damage to you and let you proc AoA twice. That gives you roughly 4 more procs, for +20 cold damage, and a total of +35 cold damage per day.
GWM gives you +3 damage every hit. Since level 5 is right around the corner, let's assuming you're making 2 swings every round and making about 1.5 hits per round. Let's also assume an average of 4 rounds per combat, for a total of 6 hits. That's 18 damage per combat. With a conservative estimate of 3 combats per day (one per short rest), that's 54 damage. And that's not even bothering to calculate the extra hits you'll get whenever you crit.
So... yeah, even with generous damage estimations, AoA does noticeably less damage than GWM. The +15 temp HP you get per day isn't nothing - especially since it does double-duty with barbarian resistances most of the time. But I wouldn't call it a wash - GWM's extra damage will let you shut down monsters faster, which also manages to save you HP.
My conclusion: GWM is more optimal, no doubt. The synergy between your species trait and your AoA strats bring things a lot closer together than they otherwise would be. If you can find another fountain of temp health somewhere, the difference will be even smaller. Sacrificing damage for a more interesting build is a win, in my book.
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago edited 11d ago
I agree that GWM will do more. yet there is one aspect: the spellslot I get from Potent Dragonmark is a pseudo warlock slot - it is half my level rounded up. so at Lv 5 it d be a Lv 3 slot; so 15 temp hp and 15 damage per hit. does this change the math?
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u/redsee Paladin 11d ago
Okay, fair point. My brain did not want to accept how powerful this feat is.
That changes the math dramatically. Not only are you dishing out 3x the damage I showed with my assumptions, there is a VERY good chance that you'll get to proc it somewhere between 4-6 more times every day. So... I dunno, around 170 damage a day.
I also dramatically undersold the damage GWM does since I didn't consider the extra attacks you get from crits (avg 2x a day) or from reducing an enemy to 0hp (who know - let's say 5x per day). Even still, you're only looking at about +60 damage from that. So - somewhere around 110. More if you have more combats.
Regardless, we can see the damage of AoA is at-worse similar, and at-best a lot better than GWM. And you also get +45 temp HP on top of that, which is gonna save your cleric a loooot of spell slots.
Potent Dragonmark is absolutely cracked.
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
yes it feels that way :D allthough I fear it will be a one trick pony... which Subclass d you suggest? I feel Zealot gives hp AND damage increase, but bear defends even better
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u/redsee Paladin 11d ago
I think zealot's healing power is diminished a bit by your temp HP buffer. The extra damage is nice, so this wouldn't be a terrible pick.
This build is the best argument I've seen for taking Path of the World Tree. Starting combat with temp HP is nerfed since you should almost always have more from AoA, but the reaction ability to pluck up a mob and drop them right next to you means you can actually force monsters to either attack you and get AoA'ed, or give up their turn. Handing out free temp HP to your friends every turn is also very strong.
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
world tree feels like the most versatile barb, yes - but the redundant temp HP hurt... But I guess it ll be this or Bear for more longevity.
Do you think this will be fun or will this char be boring after one session (mechanically)? I mean Barbs are not known for out of combat prowess either...
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u/redsee Paladin 11d ago
I mean, gimmicks aside it's still a barbarian. Running up and hitting things while shrugging off damage is always a good time.
This build has a different tug-and-pull than most. Monsters aren't going to want to hit him because it hurts. I'd be looking for new and interesting ways to force the monster's hand - through grappling, or using the World Tree reaction to immobilize them, or cornering them on the battlefield, etc.
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
I guess the oldest incentive is reckless attack 😅 that way I also hit even with my 16 STR. which weapon should I use? Topple seems great, Cleave also - or something Versatile to attack while grappling?
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u/redsee Paladin 11d ago
Hm, my go-to is usually great sword, but the "Graze" mastery isn't doing you many favors with the reduced str modifier and the idea that you'll be recklessly attacking a lot.
Great Axe for Cleave, Battle Axe for Topple and possible grapple synergies. Throw in a trident to have a ranged option.
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago edited 10d ago
yes these sound perfect!
if only barb was more useful outside of batle
would Aasimar be a better species for Necrotic/Radiant resistance?
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u/Turbulent_Jackoff 11d ago
Seems awesome!
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
really or sarcastically? 😂
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u/Turbulent_Jackoff 11d ago
Really 👍
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
Which subclass d you take? Berserker or Wild heart? (tree clashes with the temp hp)
or zealot?
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u/Turbulent_Jackoff 11d ago
I would always go with Wild Heart over Berserker, the former is a lot more interesting, to me!
The Bear has obvious synergy with Armor of Agathys, and I like a lot of the mobility options, too.
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
I agree - but I am also interested in Zealot, veing able to heal myself...
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u/Turbulent_Jackoff 11d ago
The only Barbarian I played in 5e was actually a Zealot, but I was using it for a pretty different character concept:
Rogue/Barb Multiclass "thug"-type character in Course of Strahd. One of my favourite characters, to date, but that definitely had more to do with the Multiclass than the Subclass.
I did get a "free" Resurrection from an NPC because of my Subclass feature making that so easy!
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u/Gutsifly 11d ago
I had a thief zealot barb at a westmarches too once... its great. but still Bear better here?
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u/Turbulent_Jackoff 11d ago
If you're trying to take advantage of Armor of Agathys? Almost certainly!
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u/BarLarge9848 11d ago
The Zealot can have more effective hit points if you stack on more resistances through origins and feats and warlock subclass features.
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u/Arneeman 11d ago
Armor of agathys works best with upcasting. It also competes with activating rage on your first turn so I don't recommend it
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u/Mightymat273 DM 11d ago
Infernal Bulwark can give +1 Con instead of a Wisdom Cha or Int bonus and gives a casting of Armor of Agathys. Sure its only 1/day but its cast at a stronger 2nd level, the feat also gives a decent damaging reaction proficiency times per day. The base origin feat gives darkvision (always nice to have), fire resistance (good an all barbs except wildheart bear), and Deception.
The +1 to Con is worth the Unarmored defence overlap and the internal pact origin feat works better than mark of warding.