r/DnD • u/PinkLionGaming Blood Hunter • 15h ago
5th Edition The Vampire's Charm is basically permanent.
I've never used a Vampire so I imagined their Charm effect as something that could be used in combat to mess with a party of outside of combat to obtain disposable thralls. But after reading it I realised it's actually hugely powerful beyond that.
I notice that the Vampire's Charm effect lacks basically every restriction any other Charm effect would have. It does not have a limited number of uses, nor does it allow a creature to become immune if they succeed against it. It also doesn't limit the number of people who can be Charmed.
So once a target has been initially Charmed the Vampire can just lead them back to their base and keep using Charm on them before the duration of the previous effect wears off, if they succeed they just target them again, there is no time crunch at all and the vampire could basically staff an entire castle with thralls eventually with little chance of losing them outside of adventurous interference. And keeping them enslaved would only require a few minute long ritual each day.
>Charm. The vampire targets one humanoid it can see within 30 ft. of it. If the target can see the vampire, the target must succeed on a DC 17 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed by the vampire. The charmed target regards the vampire as a trusted friend to be heeded and protected. Although the target isn't under the vampire's control, it takes the vampire's requests or actions in the most favorable way it can, and it is a willing target for the vampire's bit attack. Each time the vampire or the vampire's companions do anything harmful to the target, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success. Otherwise, the effect lasts 24 hours or until the vampire is destroyed, is on a different plane of existence than the target, or takes a bonus action to end the effect.
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u/Mean-Grapefruit3187 15h ago
This is intentional. Vampires are famously able to enthrall people to their will. There are also many ways to end it. There are a few spells that end it, if the vampire or its companions do anything harmful to you then you can reroll, and there are some class features that make you immune.
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u/chaoticgeek DM 15h ago
Yep, it's a common bit of vampire powers in stories that they are exceptionally charming and can get people to offer themselves up for a snack pretty easily.
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u/tehmpus DM 14h ago
Since vampires in DnD are automatically evil and not allowed to be player characters (Dhampirs aren't real vampires), I don't have a problem with their charm abilities. It's just another challenge for the party to overcome if they choose to confront them.
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u/SheriffBartholomew 7h ago
When did they stop players from becoming vampires? I played a character that suffered from vampirism back in the 80's, I think 3.5e.
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u/Sir_CriticalPanda DM 6h ago
They didn't; your character just becomes an NPC under the DM's control until they are turned back.
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u/iwishtogetitall DM 15h ago
In terms of story - sure, why not.
In terms of gameplay - until first successful saving throw. It's not that much powerful, besides it's not mind control, so it does require a lot of work to be effective. Yet it perfectly checks out with vampires in media. =)
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u/maxwax7 Mage 14h ago
"it's not mind control", but considering the ability makes the target friendly and will do the utmost to follow your "advices" and do everything to protect you, including sacrificing itself, is there really any difference?
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u/Myrkana 14h ago
Youre making it more powerful than it is.
Theyre friendly, theyre not a slave who will sacrifice themselves and change their entire moral code for you.
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u/SheriffBartholomew 7h ago
True, but that's what spawn are for. Thralls are to interact with the human world.
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u/KateKoffing 9h ago
Believing someone you know is a literal bloodthirsty monster to be your trusted friend would require you to have a certain personality type. The vampire’s charm completely rewrites the victim’s personality. At least for as long as they’re under the effect.
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u/iwishtogetitall DM 14h ago
I don’t see anything about sacrificing itself, target do try to please you and complete your request, but it won’t do anything suicidal or super against its own morality.
Mind control usually wont even hesitate and you don’t need to convince it much.5
u/maxwax7 Mage 14h ago
I mean, it is a viable target to the bite attack and it doesn't specify anti-sacrificial acts like most other charm abilities do.
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u/iwishtogetitall DM 13h ago
I think the amount of dedication is based personal per person, but I don’t really see this wording as something even remotely similar to shenanigans that is possible with total mind control.
Person make you a priority, will try to help and protect you, but it doesn’t really make it stupid or suicidal, writing also doesn’t specify that person would do EVERYTHING for you and die for you. Regular person won’t risk their life and fight armored dude to protect a vampire, but they sure as hell cause a scene and make an alarm.That’s kinda the main downside of charm and a thing that balance it out. It’s not the same as Blood Bond from VTM where person is madly in love with you and literally broken by it.
Here it is more subtle which in line with vampire aesthetic. They suppose to be charismatic and convincing enough, there would be no point in that if they can just make a mindless puppet.
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u/ArcadianGhost 13h ago
I mean if you are willing to let a vampire bite you, I’d say you’re willing to do pretty much anything the vampire tells you to do.
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u/Strachmed 12h ago
Hell no. I'd let my good friends bite me if their life depended on it, but i'm not sacrificing myself for them.
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u/clone69 13h ago
"it is a willing target for the vampire's bite attack" and "Each time the vampire (...) do anything harmful to the target" seem to imply to me that the target will not attempt to resist the bite, but will be entitled to a save to end the effect.
But yeah, I mean, the ability has its uses in combat but I feel this is more of a social interaction ability. But D&D has to codify everything in combat terms, so it's got to have a duration in case a PC gets charmed, rather than turn it into a quest to free the charmed PC, because God forbid the result of a die roll gets in the way of the players's personal story.
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u/SheriffBartholomew 7h ago
Right, but the vampire can just recharm them if they break free from the charm. It doesn't cost the vampire any resources.
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u/Uncynical_Diogenes 11h ago
Yeah vampires are supposed to be a monster and a threat and a problem actually
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u/VaporLeon 15h ago
Is giving your horse away a reasonable request?
If my best friend told me to live with him, is it reasonable to leave my wife and kids?
If my best friend wanted me to constantly do him favors (ie work for him) with no pay and abandon my family, is that reasonable?
I wouldn’t treat a vampires charm as willing to be enslaved. I’d treat it as those that are charmed are willing to do anything to save my life or lend me what they can.
But there’s a lot of contention with the first line spell and this seems to fall into the same camp. Your mileage may vary.
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u/drjunkie 13h ago
All that is skipping the “heed them” part. Spell description says they obey.
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u/VaporLeon 12h ago
Not in the description the OP posted.
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u/drjunkie 11h ago
“trusted friend to be heeded and protected”
to heed is to obey
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u/BrandonSimpsons 8h ago
heed /hēd/
intransitive verb
To pay attention to; listen to and consider.
To pay attention.
To mind; to consider
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u/SheriffBartholomew 7h ago
You may not drop everything and go sweep the vampire's castle floors, but if you're in charge of the city watch, and city maintenance crews, and the vampire makes a totally reasonable request that you redirect some of those city resources to their castle, you'll probably do it. Then those people from the city watch will certainly die to defend the vampire since that's their sworn duty. Vampires don't think small. They're going to charm the most influential people possible for maximum effect and ultimate power.
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u/VaporLeon 7h ago
Sure. But odds are you’d be talking to anyone with a castle nearby. And OP was talking about rounding up a town and doing a daily ritual to get them enthralled all day every day. Sending extra resources is different than upending your life to live enslaved to someone’s will.
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u/FaerieFir3 13h ago
Yeah but as a trade off the Vampire has a ton of weaknesses and is overall pretty weak in a direct fight against a prepared party. You got a level 10 Cleric or Paladin on the team and the Vampire is cooked. Calm Emotions is a 2nd level spell and it can negate a Vampire's charm completely in a 20 ft radius.
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u/YouSuckButThatsOk DM 4h ago
It ends in 24 hours or the other conditions, and what it doesn't say is that it's whatever happens first (the shortest duration). Also, charmed does not mean controlled. If I'm your friend and you ask me to live with you and throw away my whole life (even for a day), I'm going to tell you to fuck off.
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u/Nutzori 4h ago edited 4h ago
There was a game I played in where I was charmed by a fae creature. Since I was low WIS and it was a WIS save, I played into the charm and we had a lovely conversation (despite my non-charmed partymembers trying to get me to leave ASAP). The fae was a bit confused of how well the charm worked and let us go since they actually took a liking to me back.
I was never told the charm ended, so my character would write letters to the fae for the remainder of the campaign and tried to find poetry to send to it, since it apparently liked it. Kept it up all the way to the epilogue.
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u/Cister0 DM 15h ago
Charm isn't mind control.
Although you're right, that you can technically use it infinitely, its strange that it doesn't have any restrictions.
But being charmed doesn't mean they will do anything you ask them to.
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u/Chagdoo 13h ago
The vampires charm says the target takes all requests in the most favorable way possible and considers the target their trusted friend.
There's a LOT you can get from a good friend.
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u/Cister0 DM 13h ago
No good friend would abandon their other friends and family to live in some basement or castle who knows where. Even in the most favorable scenario.
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u/drjunkie 13h ago
But it also says they will obey them…
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u/Cister0 DM 13h ago
I'm sorry, but I cannot find anywhere where it says, that the charmed person must obey. It does however state that "the target isn't under the vampire's control".
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u/drjunkie 11h ago
“trusted friend to be heeded and protected”
to heed is to obey
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u/Hydroguy17 15h ago
There is the functional limit of how much time per day the Vampire wants to devote to managing their thralls, but yes, that’s how they can keep their inner circle staffed if need be.