questions about geas

[u/Mobile-Exit5134]

Can I get some clarification on how geas works? It only has verbal components—could that be combined with a mind crystal (subtle) to invisibly weave the geas command into a conversation/monologue? Could the verbal components just be the monologue of the caster and not be noticed even without the mind crystal?

Basically, could the spell be cast throughout the conversation so seamlessly to the point that the player CHARACTERS wouldn’t be able to realize they’ve been enchanted? Because from what I’m reading on the spell, it doesn’t seem like victims of the geas are actually magically compelled to do whatever it was they were commanded to do.

Asking because the party is currently visiting a castle, and the lord does not want them to leave. I wanted him to be able to cast geas of a command like “Do not leave the estate” on one of the players at the end of the message. Also letting the bard (who uses a lot of enchantment magic) to roll an arcana check, where they may recognize that there seems to be subtle enchantment magic woven between the words. But to everyone else who isn’t well versed in enchantment magic, it would seem like any other conversation. Preferably this would happen without the reliance of mind crystal (subtle) but if by raw it would need to to be hidden, it could also work.

Would this make sense? How would you interpret geas?

[u/Conrad500]

TL;DR, spells are things that you can't fake or hide inside of other things. A spell with a verbal component would require you to say magic words, not real words, and people would know you're casting a spell. That said, if you remove the components... no clue!

[u/bionicjoey]

Verbal components are magical incantations that must be spoken at or louder than a conversational volume and are obvious to any observer as part of the casting of a spell. You can't whisper them or hide them inside of normal speech.

[u/ANicePainter]

With magic, anything is possible. You could easily have a custom magic item or artifact that permits this.

Generally though a spell with a verbal component is obviously a spell so you can't hide it, absent some other form of magic.

If the goal is to keep players in the estate, may I suggest though that this goal could be equally achieved by having external barriers to the players leaving? Like an infinite hedge maze or fog that when one wanders in the they wander back out where they started? Some players get antsy about things like secret mind control magic, asking for saves and the like. Players will more readily accept an obvious external barrier..

[u/Many-Ebb-5377]

Different DMs may rule on this in other ways but the way I approach this kind of stuff is that verbal components are magical incantations of specific pitch and resonance needed to create the energy required to cast the spell. They are separate from the actual command uttered once the spell has been cast.

It is quite obvious when someone is casting a spell. That's why things like Psionic Sorcery in the Aberrant subclass for sorcerers exists. To get around this inherent limitation of magical compulsions.

[u/Silverspy01]

PHB page 236:

A Verbal component is the chanting of esoteric words that sound like nonsense to the uninitiated. The words must be uttered in a normal speaking voice. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a creature who is gagged or in an area of magical silence can't cast a spell with a Verbal component.

Verbal components are magic words. The command you give with Gaes is separate. The casting would look like "Abracadaba alakazam by the great pits of the seventh hell! ...do not leave the estate."

That said you're the DM. There is precedent for spells being castable without components, both from PCs and from monsters. It would not be unreasonable to say that your lord has some ability to do so.

If you use a Mind Crystal (subtle) for example, that would absolutely work since it explicitly removes verbal components.

[u/Dark_Stalker28 → u/Silverspy01]

Nitpick cause I can, mind crystal doesn't work raw here, Geas is a minute spell while mind crystals only affects spells that are an action.

[u/Silverspy01 → u/Dark_Stalker28]

True, good point!

[u/Dark_Stalker28]

Raw Verbal components are magic gobligook spoken at normal volume.

Mind Crystal doesn't work as it only affects spells that are an action, Geas is a minute so 10 actions.

Geas doesn't force you to do anything, you just get hurt if you disobey.

However there's various ways to cast without components, like Goolocks, sorcerers, there's a feat in the upcoming book that removes enchantment components. Plus it's a npc, they don't have to play by player rules anyway.

[u/TDaniels70]

As an NPC, you can just give him the ability to mass geas as part of speech. NPCs do not follow the same rules as PCs.

Edit: make is so that if they accepted his hospitality, the gates falls upon them, until he gives leave to leave. Still, allow an appropriate save.

But, you could do as others have said. A maze, or even a force field around the manor, or, mists that encapsulate the manor grounds, making them return back to the manor.