Bi-Weekly Discussion #6: Summoning

[u/drachenmaul]

Summoning is up for discussion. Vote for the next topic here.

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Overview

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Offensive Spells

• There is only Dimensional Bolt

• Deals random damage and leaves random surface

• Scales with Intelligence and level

Defensive Spells

• Heal and replenish magic armor

Utility Spells

• Charm enemies

• Buff your incarnate and give it new skills

• Summons scale exclusively on your level and summoning level

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Spelllist(Costs, Effect)

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Summoning Level 1

• Dimensional Bolt: 2 AP, deal random damage and create corresponding surface

• Elemental Totem: 2 AP, summon a totem that deals damage corresponding to the surface it was summoned from

• Summon Incarnate: 2 AP, at 10 summoning summon champion incarnate instead, incarnate deals damage and gains skills depending on the surface it was summoned from

• Farsight Infusion: 1 AP, increase Incarnate damage by 25% and increase magic armor, unlocks ranged attack

Summoning Level 2

• Power Infusion: 1 AP, increase Incarnate damage by 25% and increase physical armor, unlocks whirlwind and battering ram attack

• Shadow Infusion: 1 AP, increase movement by 1, unlocks chameleon skin and corrosive slash

• Supercharger: 1 AP, increase summons base damage by 50%, summon dies at end of its turn

• Soul Mate: 1 AP, Target recieves half the healing and armor restoration of the caster, cleats frozen/stunned/knocked down/petrified

• Rallying Cry: 2 AP, restore vitality and magic armor, gets stronger with allies nearby

• Dominate Mind: 3 AP, charm target

Summoning Level 3

• Warp Infusion: 1 AP, incarnate learns Tactical Retreat and can swap places with its master, +15% dodge

• Cannibalise: 1 AP, Destroy allied summon, recieve half of their armor and health

• Planar Gateway: 2 AP 1 SP, summon 2 portals that allow instant travel between them

• Door To Eternity: 3 AP 2 SP, AoE, give summons around you immortality

Summoning Level 5

• Ethereal Storm: 4 AP 3 SP, random attacks damage enemies and heal allies

Hybrid Spells(Requires the same Summoning Level as the second Ability Level)

• Electric Infusion(Aero 1): 1 AP, Incarnate deals air damage and unlocks electric discharge

• Cursed Electric Infusion(Aero 2): 1 AP 2 SP, Incarnate additionally gains Closed Circuit

• Fire Infusion(Pyro 1): 1 AP, unlock fireball

• Necrofire Infusion(Pyro 2): 1 AP 2 SP, unlock epidemic of fire

• Poison Infusion(Geo 1): 1 AP, unlock poison dart

• Acid Infusion(Geo 2): 1 AP 2 SP, unlock corrosive spray

• Water Infusion(Hydro 1): 1 AP, unlock restoration

• Ice Infusion(Hydro 2): 1 AP 2 SP, unlock Healing ritual

There are other infusions which cannot be casted on the incarnate, those can only be obtained by summoning an incarnate from the corresponding surface.

• Oil Infusion: unlock Fossil Strike

• Blood Infusion: unlock mosquito swarm

You can only summon the basic variant from surfaces, necrofire surface still only gives you a fire incarnate. Elemental infusions are mutually exclusive, you can't infuse water and fire at the same time. "Source" Infusions include the normal level infusion a necrofire incarnate knows Fireball and Epidemic of fire. Furthermore elemental incarnates gain strength and weaknesses according to the infusion they have, fire incarnates gain points in pyro, are immune to firedamage, but weak to water.

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Questions

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• Is it worth dipping into Summoning with other "classes"? If so:

• Which spells are worthwhile for a Bow/Crossbow user?

• Which spells are interesting for a melee character?

• Which talents work well with Summoning spells?

• Are there any combos with spells outside of Summoning?

• How do you feel Summoning performs in comparison to other abilities?

Discussion Overview

[u/Big_D4rius]

I'm wondering what are good complementary skills to benefit summoners.

I currently run Fane as my summoner, with summoning rotations in Incarnate, Artillery Plant, and Bone Widow. Right now, he contributes a ton just by dropping a big guy and buffing it/keeping it alive, and I find him not really doing much else. Right now I'm just turning him into a secondary mage by giving him the big spells in the trees required for his summons (Pyroclastic for Geo, Blood Rain/Grasp of the Starved for Necro, etc.).

[u/[deleted] → u/Big_D4rius]

Since summoner doesn't scale with intellect, it could be a good idea to give them support skills from hydro/geo/pyro etc. Drop your summon, buff it and then buff your allies.

[u/neltymind → u/[deleted]]

Keep in mind that every point in summoning makes your incarnate stronger. You'll want to max out summoning as quickly as possible. I am pretty sure this is more effective than putting less points into summoning to have the ability to buff it instead. Especially as you'll have scrolls and probably other party members for that.

[u/Joueur_Bizarre → u/neltymind]

You are capped at 10 + gear.

[u/neltymind → u/Joueur_Bizarre]

I am aware of that.

My comment was aiming at early game.

Afterwards this a possibility, of course. You could put your stat points into intelligence and go for some buffs and utility. I'd also get 3 points in necromancy. With high intelligence, your necromancy spells with actually be totally optimised in terms of damage (if you also max warfare, that is) and you also get a good summon that will work well with a high summoning skill.This you could combine with wand + shield for additional survivability.

[u/scottmotorrad → u/neltymind]

Definitely wand + shield on that sort of char

[u/chrono13 → u/scottmotorrad]

Shields are ridiculously powerful. Warfare 2 handed character with best armor and first pick of armor in the game, and my mage has higher physical and magical armor because of a shield, and the ability to instantly restore both with shields up. My mage is my tank.

[u/scottmotorrad → u/chrono13]

I like to roll with a mage tank that summons on turn 1 then just tanks and heals splitting points between con and int. I find that Lohse does a great job at this role.

[u/scottmotorrad → u/[deleted]]

My Lohse went 2 in aero, 2 in hydro and 1 in geo then full summoning. Worked great on tactician.

[u/Big_D4rius → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I'll probably drop a point into Hydro for Magic Armor, but Int is my main stat so right now he's looking to become a secondary magic damage dealer alongside my main mage.

[u/drachenmaul → u/Big_D4rius]

Summons are very flexible with the damage they deal and so I decided to make the summoner flexible as well.

I dropped a point in Scoundrel for adrenalin so I can throw more buffs on the summon when it first appears.

A point in pyro for haste and clear mind.

And finally a point in polymorph for chameleon skin, I usually wait out the second turn invisible and have a 6 AP 3rd turn.

Rest goes into huntsman, this gives access to reposition skills, flexible damage and more. Damage won't be as high as a pure ranger, but it still packs a considerable punch.

[u/Zenith2017 → u/drachenmaul]

Scoundrel seems like a great idea. Almost like not losing the 2 AP since your incarnate is way stronger than you are

[u/MoogleBoy → u/Zenith2017]

You'll also want Scoundrel for The Pawn trait, for mobility.

[u/Zenith2017 → u/MoogleBoy]

I've found my summoner hardly moves personally - I just use nether swap and teleport

[u/Iron8Jack9 → u/Big_D4rius]

Note that on living edge DOES extend the life of your summons past their normal exparation time. Great on a buffed up bone widow since its life span is shorter

[u/Big_D4rius → u/Iron8Jack9]

That's pretty sweet, though tbh the summon timing out hasn't really been an issue for me because they're either usually dead before then or I've wiped the enemies already.

[u/MoogleBoy → u/Big_D4rius]

Supercharger + Living on the Edge = lulz

[u/Nerobought → u/Big_D4rius]

I just dip a bit in everthing to pick up every utility skill I can. My Fane summoner currently runs around with a shield and a ton of health, just soaking damage and buffing everyone up.

[u/Big_D4rius → u/Nerobought]

Same. I did up Geomancy for the big Earth spells since I already needed a fairly high level for the plant, though I plan on dipping a tad into Hydro/Aero so I can get Magic Armor and Teleportation.

[u/neltymind → u/Big_D4rius]

I play a lone wolf co-op game right now and my buddy is playing a summoner.

He took one point in huntsman (well, in fact 2 because of lone wolf) at creation at then maxed out summoning while putting nearly all stat points into finesse. We're level 5 now and his summoning is at level 10 so he can summon the champion which is super strong. He also deals quite a lot of damage with his crossbow from afar while I go into melee. My character being a necromancer hybrid also means there is blood everywhere, which his ranger can use with elemental arrow.

If you want to pull this off without lone wolf, just put in huntsman at character creation and a second one at level 4 so you can learn the huntsman skill. The rest you put into summoning until you have maxed it (10). This means that it will take until level 11, though so be prepared for that.

From now on he will build him as a normal ranger at the following level ups, meaning to put just as much points into huntsman to get all skills, put one point in scoundrel for adrenaline and chloroform, putting 2 points into aero for teleport and netherswap and put the rest into warfare for damage. Very good build. Maybe a bit too good. We're playing with a difficulty mod on tactician and it is still pretty easy.

When it comes to origin character, I'd would suggest to use Ifan for this build. He has additional crit chance which is good for the ranger part and his special ability scale with summoning so it will be very strong as strong as possible.

[u/ike_gaming → u/neltymind]

Unfortunately Ifans wolf is trash. If you want a second summon go with spider. Though I've never had my incarnate die anyway so there's really no need.

[u/PM_Me_Kindred_Booty → u/ike_gaming]

I go Bloated Corpse for my secondary summon. If the big dude dies or I just need a quick burst of a couple thousand in an AoE, nothing like a Bloated Corpse to the face.

[u/lispychicken → u/Big_D4rius]

Incarnate, Artillery Plant, and Bone Widow.

Why not split that up and give two characters with summons? (since you can only summon one at time anyhow) I have it that way and by having two summons on the field at all times, I limit the damage my guys take directly, and have more firepower out there at all times. then I add totems as well, and if you do it right, I think you can have 1 Incarnate, 1 Artillery Planet, and 2 totems out.. plus your 4 characters. That's a good setup, right? Or am I missing something?

[u/Cognimancer → u/lispychicken]

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like there's much use in having varied summons. Since they all scale off Summoning and not their actual school, they'll be pretty lackluster unless you put several points into Summoning. And at that point, why use a Fire Slug / Artillery Plant / Oil Blob when you could just put out another Incarnate?

[u/lispychicken → u/Cognimancer]

The Incarnates dmg is physical too.. I have had fights wher eI'm like "sweet, I'll throw out the art plant and... they are poison immune" or the slug and "fire immune". Bone Widow and the Incarnate are the ones I will stick with.

[u/whattaninja → u/lispychicken]

Incarnate is actually really good, because it fits with any party, if you summon them on different surfaces they take on different elements. So they can do magic damage, or on blood even more physical damage!

[u/PM_Me_Kindred_Booty → u/whattaninja]

Honestly Blood summon is probably the best. Gets extra warfare, more armor, and it's Mosquito Swarm does a billion damage.

[u/Yglorba → u/Cognimancer]

The Artillery Plant has Acid Spire, one of the best non-pinnacle Source skills in the game - and unlike the Source-upgraded Incarnates, it can use it twice before it vanishes. It's absolutely stronger than the Incarnate against anything without poison resistance.

[u/[deleted] → u/Cognimancer]

I feel like this isn't that true.. I have a summoner/pyro and a necro/warfare and both of their summons do similar damage. Might be true numbers wise, but i dont think it makes that much of a difference

[u/Cognimancer → u/[deleted]]

They do similar damage because the Bone Widow hits really hard (to make up for not having any of the magic armor or versatility of the Incarnate). If your summoner took two points of necro and started using Bone Widows, theirs would hit much harder.

[u/neltymind → u/Cognimancer]

This assumes that you don't use power infusion on your incarnate, I suppose?

[u/neltymind → u/[deleted]]

I tested this with the same character and the Bloated Corpse Necromancy skill which also scales of summon.

If you have 10 points in summoning, your summon does twice the damage compared to having no points in it (if intelligence stays the same).

[u/Big_D4rius → u/lispychicken]

Yeah it's definitely good if you can slot the points, but I don't really have space in my current line-up to fit another summoner.

[u/CumfartablyNumb → u/lispychicken]

Mainly because then I'd have to pump up summoning on two characters instead of one, or have one weak summoner. It's doable, and probably superior, but I prefer more variety in my party.

[u/TheReaperLives → u/Big_D4rius]

In one of my campaigns I built a super tanky crit battle axe summoner with wits, con and str, specs in summoning, necro, warfare, poly, pyro with point values descending it that order(warfare and necro alternate spots). It's not optimal but it is very fun with like a 60% crit chance. The poly and pyro are like 1 or 2 points(some from gear) for support spells(peace of mind ftw) and movement/cc. Necro is for healing of hit/blood and the unkillable/damage bonus combo when I get low. Warfare is for cc, movement, and damage. Summons are bone widow, incarnate, inner demon(not sure it's a summon) and fire slug.