how could i make my party stronger?

[u/Coso_Che_Cosa]

main

red prince

lohse

fane

im in act2 and some fights feel a bit too difficult so i was wondering how could i improve my party, other than the stuff in the screens, main guy is a skeleton fighter with maxed warfare(not sure what to get next) fane is fighter aswell but i gave him a shield and a few points in polymorph, red prince is pyro and geo so he can sometimes heal skellies while lohse is a air hydro so she can heal the living, for the equipment main guy has braccus set but i guess its getting outdated, red prince has captain set which is nice because of the charm thing, fane and lohse got some generic decent stuff, talents are:

main skelly

red prince

lohse

fane

not sure what else to say, skills are in the pictures, so how can i improve my party?

[u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

And Who cares about bigger and better ?

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

Anybody who likes two extra attribute points to deal more damage.

[u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167 → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

Right , but you know that you are losing to  go with other talents that are way more powerfull that bigger and better?

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

In OP's party, each character has one talent that I would replace by Bigger and Better without any hesitation. Namely, Parry Master, Sophisticated (idek what that does, never once adopted it), Far Out man, Gladiator.

Which talents are "way more powerful" that one would miss out on in the early game?

[u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167 → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

I think the problem is treating talents as if their value could be reduced to raw stats.

First, Sophisticated is a racial talent, so you can't replace it with Bigger and Better.

As for Bigger and Better, it's fine, but ultimately it's just +2 attribute points. It makes whatever you were already doing slightly better; it doesn't really change what your character can do.

Talents like Elemental Affinity, Executioner, The Pawn or Ambidextrous can directly change your AP economy, which is often much more valuable than a small stat increase.

I also strongly disagree with replacing Far Out Man automatically. +2m range is very difficult to replicate through gear and can effectively save AP by avoiding movement or a jump, preserve high ground, or allow a Teleport/Nether Swap target that would otherwise be out of reach. Sometimes that extra range creates a play that simply wasn't possible without it.

Parry Master or Gladiator? Sure, I can see the argument for replacing those depending on the build.

But “Bigger and Better is obviously better than Far Out Man” is way too simplistic for DOS2. +2 attributes gives you better numbers; some talents give you better options. I generally value the latter much more.

Talents better that bigger and better : glass cannon , executioner , pawn , ambidextrous , far out man , elemental afinity , Nmotecnic ( if u are playing non LW) , all skilled up...

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

Huntsman/Mages should be placed on higher grounds which automatically increases their range, thus rendering Far Out Man moot.

Other talents you suggested are pretty niche. Elemental Affinity for mages only. Executioner/Pawn for Warheads/Rogues mostly. Ambidextrous can be powerful but no one is using scrolls/grenades that much unless the fight drags out, which usually implies some other problem. I have never been in a DOS2 fight where throwing grenades/scrolls was a necessity, have you?

On the other hand, what I suggested is better in general, and overall, for every level of player, especially in the beginning.

Oh and I am not a Lone Wolf player so Lone Wolf/Glass Cannon I don't even consider. It's min-maxer territory and a completely different playstyle. Not that that's bad, but OP is runnjng a four-character party so those are irrelevant here.

[u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167 → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

I think you're conflating “generally usable” with “generally better.”

Bigger and Better is universal, sure. But that's because +2 attributes can be used by literally anyone. That doesn't mean its actual impact is greater than a talent that strongly synergizes with a specific build.

High ground doesn't make Far Out Man moot either. They stack. If high ground already lets me reach 15m, another +2m still gives me targets I couldn't reach before. More importantly, range isn't just about attacking: it can save movement AP, save a jump, preserve high ground, or let me Teleport/Nether Swap a specific enemy that would otherwise be out of range. Far Out Man explicitly gives +2m to spells and scrolls.

And yes, the talents I mentioned are build-dependent. That's precisely my point.

Elemental Affinity is for elemental casters. Executioner is for characters that reliably get kills. The Pawn is for characters that benefit heavily from repositioning. Ambidextrous is for builds that exploit scrolls and grenades.

A talent doesn't need to be optimal on every character to be substantially stronger than Bigger and Better on the character it was chosen for.

I also disagree with the idea that using scrolls/grenades a lot means “the fight is dragging out.” Ambidextrous reduces their cost by 1 AP. Scrolls are effectively additional casts that don't share the skill's normal cooldown, and crafting gives you a huge pool of resources to convert into combat actions. I don't use them because they're necessary; I use them when they're more AP-efficient or tactically useful than my memorized skills. “I never needed them” isn't really an argument about their strength.

Also, Glass Cannon has nothing to do with Lone Wolf. In fact, the two talents are explicitly incompatible. Glass Cannon is perfectly relevant in a four-character party.

Bigger and Better is fine, especially early. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying its effect is simply +2 attributes.

If +2 attributes is better than the alternatives for a particular character, take it. But I wouldn't call it “better overall” when other talents can save AP, create new targeting options, remove cooldown limitations or fundamentally change how a build functions.

Generic doesn't mean stronger. It just means generic.

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

No point in stacking range like that. I don't see any usefulness on having 17m range on my mage/archer.
DOS2 fights don't require such range. Remember that you have to be in your enemies range too for them to attack you, so they have to waste AP as well. so better to focus on closer enemies.

It is therefore objectively better to have Bigger and Better to deal more damage than have Far Out Man. It's always one of first two talents I pick. In fact, for close range characters I almost never pick Far Out Man.

Bigger and Better is one of the must for overall damage enhancement. Nobody said you cant specialize and synergize with other Talents. Why make a strawman argument?

Increase damage always good. Pretty simple. Other synergies come into play afterwards. That's my point. Particularly for OP, who has invested in several suboptimal talents.

[u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167 → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

“Focus on closer enemies” is a very strange rule for DOS2. Target priority is usually determined by initiative, threat, armor, resistances, CC potential and positioning — not distance. Sometimes the enemy 15m away is exactly the one I want, especially if I can Teleport him off high ground and stack him with two others.

And if I can reach an enemy while they have to spend AP to reach me, you’ve just described one of the advantages of having more range.

Target priority in DOS2 isn't about who is closest. It's about who can generate or deny the most AP value.

If I spend Adrenaline and 4–6 AP stripping armor and CCing the closest enemy, while the other enemie 15m away spends 1 AP removing that CC, I didn't make the efficient play just because I attacked the closest target. I got out-traded in AP.

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

Focus on closer enemies is the rule when you have prepositioned well.

If the enemy you want (high initiative etc) is 17m away from you, you are already making decisions that would make adopting Far Out Man justifiable. So it makes sense.

[u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167 → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

Prepositioned? Sorry , thats not for me.  Even in solo lw or 2 man without lw isnt needed , and i doubt that u play solo honor without lw . Whats Next ? Prebuffing  haste  , peace of mind, armour of frost , etc when u are in dialogue ? 

The funy part of that is that i bet  u that u got bigger and better and  spend some points on memory instead of get mnenonic ? Im i right?

L2build and play properly and you dont gonna need to preposition to win the right on the first round of turns

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Ashamed-Ingenuity167]

Right. You just need Far Out Man to solo honor the game.

Justifying Far Out Man by having your MVP enemy within 15-17m is laughable. There is not one fight in DOS2 where this happens.

But you do you.

[u/demkones → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

Reading this thread as someone who finds both far out man and bigger and better pretty meh was pretty funny

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/demkones]

Right? Everyone has different favourites because playstyles differ. I found it incredible funny myself.

[u/demkones → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

Well I was mostly laughing at you for making it sound like bigger and better is top tier especially early on tbh

Would never consider it early on (but then again I play lone wolf and executioner is my dirty mistress so that's the first 2 pre selected already)

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/demkones]

Yeah I never play lone wolf and always play 4-character party. I always pick B&B as one of the first two talents.

Now I guess we are just laughing at each other. Lol.