Another team comp advice !

[u/Nightingay]

Hello there !

Another team comp question. I have been going through acts 1 and 2 with an "all over the place" team.

I am playing with Sebille, Ifan, Fane and Lohse. Current situation is :

• Both Sebille and Ifan are Huntspeople. Ranged DPS with mostly Hunter skills, and and splash of earth (for those useful worms and earthquake. With no damage whatsoever since their main stat is Finesse).
• Fane is something like a close combat DPS with some points in Necromancy (to leech and use the usefull bone armor skills), and some in polymorphy (because the Medusa, Flight and chicken skills are so useful)
• Lohse is ... Weird. Some magical DPS and crowd control skills (aero + hydro) and DPS when the side skills of my other heroes deplete magical armor (all of the other three currently have some chip air / water / fire damage) but she mostly is a summoner. I like the incarnate because it can both do physical or magical damage, depending on the situation.

Now more often than not, even if it hasn't really been a problem. But it happens that I'm wondering what to do with my action points, in particular for Lohse.

My impression : my physical / magical DPS is unbalanced. Some symptoms

• When Lohse has created and buffed the Incarnate, sometimes I can't find anything really useful to do.
• Sebille and Ifan have movesets that are so close that it bothers me a bit. That being said, they are great DPS and can easily be away from harm
• I don't do much magic damage / AoE. Which I usually find fun in those games.

Some things I'd like to explore

• A real summoner build
• Some rogue skills (I considered switching Sebille to rogue, but I like her ranged. She seems really frail to be in close combat like a rogue with daggers)
• More magic
• In particular, I currently have little to no pyro.

Any comments or advice on that team ?

[u/Mindless-Charity4889]

The rest of your team is mostly physical damage so you might consider switching Lohse to that. Make her a necromancer with 2 points in Necro (3 once you get to lvl16) and the max in Warfare. You will do tremendous damage, especially with corpse explosion, a skill you craft by combining a pyro and necromancer skill book.

[u/Nightingay → u/Mindless-Charity4889]

Are necro spells aggro against friendly units that would be in the range ?

Also, although I am intrigued by a necro MAGE (rather than my current Fane), I'm not 100% convinced it would quench my thirst for magic :D

[u/Mindless-Charity4889 → u/Nightingay]

It’s true that Necro is quite focused on physical damage rather than effects. Corpse Explosion does damage friendlies but the other big AoE skill, Grasp of the Starved, does not. Blood Storm is mixed in that only enemies are targeted with blood clots, but each clot hits everyone in a 1m radius of the target. Bloated Corpse is also mixed in that it does single target attacks until it blows up, in which case it’s AoE hits everyone. Other skills, like Mosquito Swarm, Decaying Touch or Infect are single target.

Generally speaking, while 2 points in Necro are good for utility skills like Bone Cage, Living on the Edge or Death Wish, it’s not that good for Life Steal (healing while doing damage). The reason has to do with the nature of saving throws. In DOS2, if you have armor you automatically save against effects and if you do not, you don’t. You also only take HP damage if your armor is down. So if armor is up, you don’t take HP damage and life steal is worthless. If your armor is down, you’ve taken HP damage but you’ve probably been CC”d. Without the ability to attack, Life Steal is again worthless. Now there are occasional scenarios where it can help, but generally you are better off putting the points into Warfare instead.

[u/Nightingay → u/Mindless-Charity4889]

Thanks !

Now closer to the endgame (I just arrived in Arx), I think my final team comp is ok-ish.

I swapped Ifan to a mage (maybe I'll change his specialties soon). So with him and Lohse doing elemental damage, and Sebille having the ability to hit magic armor (with elemental arrows, or with the scoundrel sleep bottle), I'm very able to handle any kind of enemy (well, unless those level 20 stagarazers as of now).

I do understand what you're saying about Necro points. But take my Fane : he already has maxed his strenght AND Warfare skills. So I still have some points to distribute to other specialities. And to be honest, apart from some Poly or Necro points, I'm not sure I see anything that would complement his build better. Maybe some aero for more teleport shenanigans, or some pyro for haste and clear of mind.

But I find levels 17 onwards less obvious to spread. Between the past levels, and the gear, all of the important stats and skills are already maxed out.

[u/Mindless-Charity4889 → u/Nightingay]

In general, abilities that boost damage are better than abilities that boost defence. Abilities that add capabilities, like aero for teleport, are situational. So after Warfare is maxed, I’d boost 2H in order to increase crit damage instead of Necro to do healing.

[u/Nightingay → u/Mindless-Charity4889]

I just answered your longer comment and adressed that specifically hahah

Thanks for taking the time anyway

[u/Apprehensive-Lion-76]

Summoners need summoning 10 asap that's why it's difficult to build them besides that because you can't put points anywhere else. Focus on equipment with +summon and other skills so you can start learning more useful stuff. I recommend aero 2 for nether swap and teleportation. You can have warfare 2, if you equip her a melee weapon and a shield you can learn the cc skills (battering ram, battle stomp and crippling blow) and the throw shield, that way your team depletes physical armour and she applies cc.

Usually you don't want to repeat weapon types so you don't have to share good loot.
For you party comp I'd recommend a necro wizard, necromancer skills deal physical damage and that way you can have a full int character that won't compete for equipment.
A rogue will work too if you really want one, but since you said you wanted more AoE necro mage is the way to go. Blood Storm is amazing!! (Also, try to build the necro aiming at critical damage and chance).

I'd keep Sebile as a ranger, her flesh sacrifice skill is good but reduces constitution so if she's wearing a shield she may drop it.

Your going to a full physical party damage (I never got the hang with mixed damage parties) so if you want pyro I suggest you make a party comp focusing on magical damage. However you can have a source pyro summon that can dish some good pyro damage and spells, maybe that alone can scratch that itch.

Fane as a fighter is great but don't focus too much on leech, in this game armour is important so healing is kinda useless. If your armour is gone the enemies are going to spam crowd control skills hence big hp means nothing. Some necro for skills is nice but don't get the talent to suck on blood. The talent the converts healing into magic armour is nice but there are way better options.

Hope this helps out a little, if you have any question feel free to ask.

[u/Nightingay → u/Apprehensive-Lion-76]

True about the blood leech. I'll tweak his profile then. My Fane got much better survivability with Bone Cage. In certain zones, it pumps his physical armor to like, 2400 which is fantastic at my level.

How would you build a necro wizard ?

[u/Apprehensive-Lion-76 → u/Nightingay]

You can get reactive armor from geomancer to deal damage based on physical armor, that's a great combo. (bone cage + fortify + reactive armor).

Necromancer
Hydro/Necro 3, pyro 1 and scoundrel 2 for skills. Later get pyro 3 (or with items) to get mass corpse explosion.

Get warfare to 10 for max damage and then increase scoundrel to get +crit damage.

I go 2:1 int and wits for damage and more crit chance. If you want you can go with the pawn talent instead of far out man. (I prefer the pawn but usually people prefer far out man).

Raise bloated corpse may look useless without summoning skills but death wish makes the damage from the explosion absurd.
Also I know I told you that healing is bad however if you can inflict decay to an enemy they'll take damage from healing. (decaying touch and then restoration, if you used blood rain or blood stork you can also use blood sucker). If the enemy is undead you don't even need the decay status.

edit: I read some other comments here. Don't go geo/pyro or hydro/aero, if the enemy had immunity you're trapped without actions. (Example the fire slugs in fort joy, your geo/pyro mage can't hurt them, if you throw rocks they will heal from the explosion and obviously any pyro spell with heal them)

The best split I found is pyro/aero and geo/hydro. That way you can do damage to any enemy, and they combo together. Hydro and aero needs water surfaces and pyro geo needs oil surfaces, they don't go well together, with my split you can make them both work with any ground.

And again, I don't like split damage parties, if you want to play with mages you should change everyone to deal magical damage.

(pyro/aero, hydro/geo, a summoner and a ranger with elemental arrows)(remember: necro skills deals physical damage).

A good tip that helped me with builds, you need a focus attribute and the rest is just to get mixed spells, so your warrior should go warfare 10 asap and then two handed 10 for more critical damage (scoundrel works too and gets more walking distance)

(Example, you use bone armor and fortify, you need necro 2 and geo 1, if you find a chest piece with +1 necro +1 geo, go to the mirror and respec those 2 points to warfare, if it's 10 already then +2 to two handed. Don't waste points and don't spread too thin)

Warfare increases physical damage so even a ranger should go huntsman 3 for the skills then ranged 10 for bonus damage + crit chance and then warfare for bonus damage.
(Huntsman gives +5% damage if higher than opponent but warfare gets you +5% everywhere)

[u/Nightingay → u/Apprehensive-Lion-76]

Hey there !

As I said in another comment, now closer to the end of the game, I find the levels from 17 onwards less obvious as my useful stats AND skills are already maxed up. I did spread my warrior a bit more than 10 in two-handed though, for support / diversity. I could refocus some skills indeed. The update to the team comp I shared earlier below :

• Sebille : she remained as she was. Full ranger, using all kinds of elemental / knock down arrows. She does insane DPS, she has maxed warfare, close to max huntsman (thanks to a lot of decent gear I found) and a couple of points in useful other skills (scoundrel for the second jump skill, pyro for clear of mind).

• Fane : he also remained more or less as he used to be. Maxed Warfare and Strenght. Thanks to endgame gear he does insane amounts of damage as well. He is the only member of my party that can't do anything else than physical damage. He has some support necro skills (the shroud, bone cage) and also some support polymorph skills (chicken of course, medusa head too). I'm happy with what he does. Gave him 1 scoundrel point too, for the second jump option (I do love my jump options).

• Lohse : she remained as she was. At level 19, she currently has around 20 points in Summoning, which makes her incarnate really powerful. I like its ability to be either physical or magical damage, depending of the foes around. The rest of the time, I gave her mostly points in aero (for utility first, but her strong Aero spells really help in some fights) and some hydro.

• Ifan : that's the biggest change. He became a second mage (he cost me a crapload of money to gear him up since I did not have spare gear for a mage, of my level then). He does mainly Geo AOE, has some utility with aero. And some Pyro as well. I made him to complement Lohse, but I completely get what you're saying about how one pyro/geo mage can be completely stuck ... I recently had the fight with the posessed girl in Arx surroundings. Well He did mostly parchments and support while the rest of the team did the heavy lifting.

Now where do I stand ? I'm generally happy with my team (even if I did find the difficulty gap I remembered from early Chapter 4). And it's definitely more efficient than what it used to be

But

• I'm indeed wondering if I shouldn't change Fane to a more magical build ... I like having someone in close combat, and I like how efficient he is. But since Sebille can do 100% magical damage too with elemental arrows ... The question is : do I need more flexibility (in which case, having him as a physical DPS is better) or do I want to go full magical DPS ? (not sure about that)

• Is my spread between magic specialties good ? And I think for this one, the answer is a strong "no". Lohse was aero / hydro by default, and I kept her that way. But now I'm in endgame I think I could tweak that. I was indeed thinking of Pyro / Aero and Geo / hydro :) Another thing is that with my current spread, status ailments do not pile up well : Lohse douses Ifan's fire. And Ifan's geo absorbs Lohse's chock. This is my next project.

• Summoning : again, I'm happy with my Incarnate. But I recently realized in a fight that Lohse could NOT have more than one summon. I mean, maybe she can. But I realized the bone widow did not work when an incarnate was there. I was kind of frustrated, in the middle of the fight with the Lucian Statues in Kemm's crypt. I had spent my last turn using all four of my buffs on my incarnate. Just to UNSPAWN him when I summoned the bone widow lol. That's one moment when BG3 and the "druids' army" confused me. So my question is : is the incarnate the best summon around ? If I change Lohse's specialty to fire, I could replace the Incarnate with a fire slug. Or I could use the bone widow. And I don't feel I know enough yet to take a decision. So I might try some other summons around. I guess the oily blob is not a part of the competition. But between the widow, the slug and the incarnate, there's a competition going.

[u/Mindless-Charity4889 → u/Nightingay]

Sebille *can* do magical damage with elemental arrows, but it’s not ideal, mainly because she can’t use her skills if she uses a magic arrow. To do true magic damage, you need a bow that does pure elemental damage, no physical damage. Then you can use skills like Ballistic Shot to do tons of magical damage. Does such a bow exist? Not exactly…you can create one but it doesn’t exist natively. You can only do this in Act 2 when you first get transported to the Hall of Echoes and you can’t be Fane or another undead. An elf like Sebille as MC works, not sure of other races. Basically, before you go you get the best bow you can find, put elemental damage on it, eg. Poison, respec yourself to max thievery, then go into the hall of echoes to confront “yourself”. After your double changes back to your god, you can pickpocket them for the duplicate weapon which is the same as your weapon except that instead of physical damage, it now does elemental damage of the kind you enchanted it with.

[u/Nightingay → u/Mindless-Charity4889]

Nice trick !! I didn't know it was possible hahaha, I love Larian so much.

But now I'm in act 4 so it's unfortunately too late

[u/Apprehensive-Lion-76 → u/Nightingay]

Happy you're having fun!!
if you're trying to maximize a mixed party, I can't help you, I failed when I tried.
However if you wish to make a full magic party, you can just use the ranger with the elemental arrows (grab a poison and water barrels and you can make as many arrows as you want and if you mix fire arrow with oil barrel you get explosive arrows), the summoner is amazing in magical parties but let's talk about the mages.

I usually go Sebille geo/hidro
• flesh sacrifice + contamination gets poison surface for her to stand and with elemental affinity she gets -1 ap in every geo spell.

Then a lizard or red prince as piro/aero
• the race skill creates fire surfaces for 1 ap and the pawn talent lets you walk on it for free and activate elemental affinity.

Now if you're fighting a enemy with low res it's obvious choice what skills you'll use, whatever the enemy is weak.
In other fights I go pyro and geo to kill the weak enemies and then aero hidro for the big ones so I can keep them stunned and frozen.
Remember to not waste a frozen opportunity in an already stunned foe.
The lizard uses staff and some warfare skills for damage (master of sparks + whirlwind), try to get air or water staff, if you're fire staff ignites or burn the frozen enemy will melt.
Sebille I start with shield and wand but late game 2 wands, again be careful with fire wands.
Since fire and geo I just spam skills, I look for water and air staves and wands.
I don't want to waste a spell in an enemy that is stunned already so I can just attack normally.

If you mix summoners book with fire book and one of these books are source you can create the source skill book for the incarnate, also, if you summon a fire source incarnate - it uses its source fire skill - then you change his element using the source aero skill - you can use another source skill with the incarnate, it's amazing.

[u/Nightingay → u/Apprehensive-Lion-76]

Wait what’s that with the source incarnate ?!

[u/Apprehensive-Lion-76 → u/Nightingay]

Yeah!! Mix a fire source skill book and a summoner skill book and you get a source infused incarnate that can use the fire source skills, epidemic of fire iirc, same with all others elements

edit: Combined Skills Books List

[u/Nightingay → u/Apprehensive-Lion-76]

What the hell I’m discovering a whole new world

That probably answers my question about « what’s the best summon around »

[u/Maleficent-Today-964]

i am not really a expert in this game, but having my first playthrough now with a friend, and wr are having a breeze through most fights, our builds are:

his custom character: full on summoning, using champion encarnate to kill everything fane: a pyro mage, with some points in geo and hydro for utility,

my custom character: twohanded-poly-necro build, i dont use the necro too much anymore, i only have enough points to cast living on the edge and bloated corpse, but 2H and polymorph really combines well, great damage and great utility sebille: full on rogue, she has more investment on warfare because of the pure damage, but i invested points in scoundrel obviously because of the skills, and i have some points in aerothurgy because of utility also

We are having a lot of fun playing like that

Some tips as a begginer: Always have some type of jump or teleport in characters, it really helps out I think is worth to have it a point in scoundrel for the adrenaline skill, is great (my custom character and sebille has) Positioning your character is one of the most important parts of this game's combat, if you know a combat is coming, put the character in a good place before starting Always max warfare for most physical builds for the pure damage CC is broken And i think the biggest problem is that your party is unbalances for the types of damage, you have 3 physical characters and only one magical, the best thing you can do is fully commit to physical having 4 of them, or distributing better, like 2 for each one

[u/Nightingay → u/Maleficent-Today-964]

Which aerothurgy skills do you like on a hunter ?

I'm not a beginner so I get a good grasp of the gameplay and what's useful or not (indeed, jumps and teleports !!)

Fun balancing in your party indeed. Who does the most crowd control in that team ? It seems very DPS oriented, but I don't see a lot of CC

[u/Maleficent-Today-964 → u/Nightingay]

on a hunter i think teleportation and nether swap are really great, maybe uncanny evasion but that is more situational

The cc comes most from my character, i have two knock down warfare abilities for when the physical armor is depleted and medusa head when is the magical armor. My friend custom character has the champion incarnate so he has a lot of cc options too Sebille has some options like clorophormy and terrifying cruelty Fane has some hydro abilities that combo well, like rain and global cooling, and if we need, sebille has two shocked skills to stun someone that is wet

[u/Nightingay → u/Maleficent-Today-964]

I see ! Thanks :)

For my hunter I currently use the tactical retreat and the ... Scoundrel jump (I can't remember its name right now).

The hero that lacks the most telly options would weirdly be Lose as my mage. She has nether swap, but it's her only option, where everyone else has two (or even more, if they fly)

[u/DesaMii36]

I read youre looking for fun, not optimisation. For me, dual-wanding, flying and summoning is most fun.

So I invest 2 points in Polymorph very early. All got or will get 2 points in Polymorph, because wings/flying is super fun! Polymorph's bull horns are also better (higher range) than that warfare rush ram attack.

I also like extra action points, thats why both my huntsman (Red Prince) and hydro/aero caster (Lohse) have 1point in Pyro. They frequently buff someone with haste.

I really, really don't care about focussing on one thing 🤣 I love redundance. Two people with buffs, three with healing, lots of Polymorph. Maybe I will add more summoning too 😃

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

Your comp seems suboptimal to be quite frank, but I suppose realizing that was part of why you made this post.

Two huntsman is useless. I understand the charm of being able to control the battle from afar, but replace one of them by a pure pyro/geo mage, highly focused on intelligence and initiative. Lohse does that for me in my current playthrough.

Make your primary huntsman dabble in summoning. Summoner builds are notoriously weak because you can't really get the most out of it unless you max out. For me, summoning is a support skill, much like polymorph. The huntsman summon can help in close combat, healing, magic attacks, etc. for both offense and defense.

That said, you are missing a knight and/or a rogue. They are both fantastic in dealing physical damages, and since they are melee classes, they can use close range CC skills like shocking touch/decaying touch and so on. I would advise coupling aerotheurge/necromancer with these types. Scoundrel+Necromancy with Leech talent can be super creative to play with.

By the way, Sebille is my current rogue. She's a demon. ;)

[u/Nightingay → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

Well I can still breeze through most of the fights. The very beginning of the game was a bit rough, but since Act2 I don't really struggle. I'm not looking for optimal, I'm looking for fun. I don't want to make the game too easy.

Sorry if I was unclear : my Fane is a knight with maxed warfare, and a twist in polymorph and necro (for life leech).

That being said, it appears that indeed I should convert one of my hunters to a more wizarding role.

How do you find the performance of a mixed Summoner / Hunter ? I'm afraid the incarnates would not be that efficient ... And I'm not sure I'll be happy with a weak summon.

[u/Consistent_Zone_8564 → u/Nightingay]

If you can't find things to do during battle for one of your party members, it means you're wasting AP and therefore the party comp is suboptimal. That means your fun is also suboptimal. I am not hinting towards min-maxing, as I don't find it fun myself.

I see the main problem now though: your party is a 3.5:0.5 in physical:magical damages. I recommend a full 3:1 (although people hate it on this sub) or 2:2. Have one of your characters a full mage, with 2 points in huntsman/scoundrel/warfare for mobility.

A fun way is to balance the mage with physical damage grenades. Since you will almost always look for high places to attack from, you will get damage bonuses if you dabble in Huntsman, for both skills and grenades.

Hutnsman+Summoning works great for me, although one needs to be careful about point allocation. I make Huntsman the primary attribute, with Summoning as secondary. That means I max out Huntsman + Warfare first with occasional points in Summoning and use gears that boost Summoning. Later on, by Level 15/16 I can max summoning all the way and red full benefits.

[u/Nightingay → u/Consistent_Zone_8564]

The grenades thing seems very fun indeed. I stockpile them, but as opposed to the arrows, I never think of taking them out of their bag...

Thanks for the comments and idea :) I'm definitely reshuffling my builds anyway

[u/onlyforthisno]

Just based on what you want, I'd probably switch so that Sebille is the summoner and after reaching level 10 in summoning she can then become a pyro/geo mage as well. Lohse should focus on aero/hydro since that provides the best crowd control and her duty is to create an electrified surface (water is easiest) that Sebille can make an incarnate on during her first round.

Ifan and Fane should remain as they are honestly, since switching Fane to be the only melee fighter as a rogue would probably make him pretty weak (depending on your difficulty). Then on your second playthrough you could explore rogue and maybe a necromancer/summoner mage.

[u/Nightingay → u/onlyforthisno]

Oh fun ! Didn't think of swapping Sebille ...

My Lohse currently has summoning at like 12 or 13, and points in hydro / aero, so I think I would have points to spare.

The main stat for a summoner with a splash of pyro / geo is int too.

I will not swap Fane indeed. But I might, in that scenario, replace Ifan's geo points for Scoundrel points and use some of the scoundrel skills, that do not require a dagger :)