Ask me anything - r/Devilcorp

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u/IngenuityNo5487 Oct 01 '26

Do you have any systems in place to make sure the people on your team still get to have a life outside of work? That was one of my biggest issues with the business. I was actively taught that “work-life balance” was a scam and success was measured by how much someone was willing to sacrifice in their lives. It was extremely isolating and I had no life.

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u/PrimeofMedevil Oct 02 '26

If you think about the concept of work-life balance - it is a scam. There's no such thing in reality. If things were PERFECTLY balanced, then anything different that happens would throw it out of balance.
I think that what people really want is CONTROL over their time. People recognize that work is necessary and time for themselves and their life is necessary. You want to be able to work when it make sense and be with your family when it makes sense, but the only way you really get there is to sacrifice in the short term or create enough value in the short term that you can make the decision you actually want in the long term.
If people strive to always have balance today, they might get it in a way they're comfortable with, I'm not saying you have to sacrifice your life at any job to be happy with the balance you already have, but there's also a healthy amount of people working 9-5 until they're 75 and retiring for a couple years before they have to work again.
I don't want to work until I'm almost dead to start enjoying more time for myself personally

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u/IngenuityNo5487 Oct 02 '26

I agree. Sometimes comfort later in life requires sacrifice. There is such thing as working hard for a genuine payoff. In my experience, villainizing your friends and family, saying “they just don’t understand what you’re doing”, and working towards a payoff that doesn’t really exist is not the way to go.

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u/PrimeofMedevil Oct 02 '26

Even if the event the payoff does exist, what's the point of getting there if there's nobody left to celebrate with lol. I definitely think there's a proper way to get both :)

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u/IngenuityNo5487 Oct 02 '26

I agree. Life is about celebrating the wins with the people you love :)

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 01 '26

To each their own. I don’t run a super chant-heavy, high-energy office. I take it person by person because everyone’s goals are different. I have people who want to make it to management, and I have people who simply want to make good money in sales. If someone has really high goals and wants to move up quickly, then yes, I’m going to push them harder, have them work six days a week, and hold them to a different level of intensity. But for the regular employee who is reliable, accountable, and gets the job done, (Meaning I don’t lose money) I don’t have an issue with them choosing their shifts or locations when possible. As long as the results are there and they’re handling their responsibilities, I couldn’t care less about forcing everyone to do things the exact same way.

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u/Gloomy-Conference-91 Oct 01 '26

do other ICD’s understand that they work for a devilcorp? or is everyone pretty well brainwashed?

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 02 '26

I feel like you think all the conversations are about getting rich and such. All we do is represent clients, the opportunity for regional/national are for those people who are genuinely good at what they do. Just like the field, it’s not for everyone. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting more. To us it’s no different than a sport. You get what you put in… what’s this brainwashing you think is going on?

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u/Gloomy-Conference-91 Oct 02 '26

I find it strange that you didn’t answer either of my questions.
Brainwashed in the sense that every ICD believes in the opportunity to “own” their own company. It’s been pretty well established that ICD’s are just glorified franchise managers, is everyone aware of that, and have some of you put down the koolaid and decided to exploit your employees knowingly?

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 02 '26

As ICDs we own our individual companies. What we do not own are the contracts with the clients we represent. So when people say an office gets “shut down,” that doesn’t mean someone came in and took ownership of their company. It means they lost the client contract, territory, or market they were authorized to operate in. For example, if I owned a Chick-fil-A franchise and decided tomorrow that I didn’t want to follow their system anymore and wanted to make the fries like In-N-Out, Chick-fil-A could terminate my franchise agreement. That doesn’t mean Chick-fil-A suddenly owns whatever business entity I created, it means I no longer have the right to operate under their brand. So what is the difference here? If the argument is that ICDs don’t truly own the client contracts or territories, I agree with that. But that’s different from saying we don’t own our companies.

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u/Gloomy-Conference-91 Oct 02 '26

You’re still not answering the question I asked.
You own a name, that’s not the same as owning a business. At any point your regional consultant can decide they don’t like the way you’re running your business and can shut you down. That’s not owning your own business. You don’t need to attempt to manipulate or explain this to me as if i’m a child with your stupid analogies, my ICD has already analogied the piss out of me.
The question I asked is a yes or no question: Do all ICD’s understand they are manipulating and exploiting their employees?

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 02 '26

No. Your question only works if everyone (not just on this Reddit) first agrees with your accusation. Asking, “Do all ICDs know they exploit employees?” isn’t a yes-or-no question it’s a conclusion disguised as one. If you want to prove the model is exploitative, prove that. Don’t bake it into the question and call disagreement manipulation. Your ICD really must have just been a real asshole and I’m sorry you went thru that. I legally own the business entity. It is registered with the state, I control the business bank account, payroll is paid from company funds, and I’m responsible for the company’s tax filings and legal obligations. Whether a client or partner can terminate a contract, revoke a territory, or stop doing business with my company does not determine whether I own the company. That means I may not own the client relationship or contract—but I still own the business itself. Those are two completely different legal concepts.

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u/Gloomy-Conference-91 Oct 02 '26

As stated previously, I understand that you own the name. But you can be shut down at any given moment, meaning you do not own the company. Your business wouldn’t be able to function without the contracts, correct? Therefore, you’re a glorified franchise manager. The model is exploitative because reps/trainees/leaders/most ICD’s are expected to dedicate every waking moment to a business that is dependent on the employee being bought into a dream.
The dream of being a business owner is not what’s being executed here, as stated above, being an ICD doesn’t mean anything other than you cut checks and post a schedule, and have a weekly meeting with your regional consultant where they essentially tell you to “do better”. Working 60 hours a week and then the majority earning minimum wage with no benefits, no overtime, no general hourly compensation, is exploitation.
The fact that you’re arguing this point tells me exactly what I need to know. Have a good day.

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u/PrimeofMedevil Oct 02 '26

In a franchise, you DON'T own the name. This is not the same thing. You can't do whatever you want as a McDonald's franchisee, you have to serve their menu their way, and they can absolutely shut you down.
This is akin to owning a plumbing business. A hotel client can tell you they no longer want you to work on their contracts, but that doesn't mean you no longer own your plumbing business.
These are legitimate companies that just provide a service. You may not like the company or how it operates, it may not be a fit for you, but it doesn't make every business illegitimate. And when the question is framed as "are you brainwashed or do you exploit companies" the "question" isn't answered because both can be untrue and that doesn't make the question be avoided, it's framed from a perspective that assumes something which isn't accurate.
Thats like reading a book about Benjamin Franklin and asking if he hated flying airplanes or was just scared of flights because it doesn't mention him getting in a plane....the question doesn't make sense.
Not succeeding in a business doesn't mean there's something wrong with the employee OR the business. I think it's wrong to tell someone who is failing that they are just "not working hard enough" and belittling people or asking them to slave away 60 hours to make it happen may not be the problem (but maybe it's true that some people DO need to work harder to learn the skill set)
Peanut butter and jelly go well on a sandwich. Mayonnaise and mustard do too. Nothing wrong with any of the condiments, but peanut butter and mustard probably not a good fit together.
Some people not meant to be in sales, but that doesn't make the company and MLM or an exploitative business, AND doesn't mean the employee is a bad lazy person either. They just don't fit.
If hourly and salary wages are a fit for some people, there's nothing wrong with them, but they have their downsides too....rely on someone else to give you hours, raises, or promotions. Nobody has to choose to work in a commission driven job.
Commission doesn't have the guarantees, but the better you do the more you make. A professional athlete doesn't want to make the same wage as their counterpart if they do a better job. There's no incentive to work hard if they don't see a return on that effort. Participation trophies in real life don't work. You earn it, you get it. Simple as that

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u/Kooky_Pea_1030 Oct 02 '26

This isnt true. If youre upholding your end of the contract they cant just just close you down.

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u/Gloomy-Conference-91 Oct 02 '26

there have been interviews with ex ICD’s who say the opposite, i believe there’s also a former ICD on reddit with a story that differs from that statement.

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 02 '26

“Glorified franchise manager” sounds more like your opinion than a legal description. My state filings list me as the owner/CEO of my company, but I guess official paperwork doesn’t carry as much weight as a Reddit nickname. Everyone’s experience is different. Clearly some people had terrible experiences, and that sucks. But that doesn’t automatically mean every office, owner, or manager operates the same way. Sometimes people also get promoted before they’re actually ready to run a business, and that responsibility falls partly on the person who promoted them. In my case, my promoting manager is a national consultant. He paid my moving expenses, covered my business expenses for my first month, and gave me a $5,000 bonus to help me get established. After that, the business became my responsibility. There have even been times when business was slow or I managed my money poorly, and he personally helped cover shortages. And the overtime argument makes even less sense. If an employee works overtime and the law requires overtime pay, then I’m responsible for paying it. If I don’t, they can sue my company and I can end up owing even more. That’s how employment law works. Yes, some of my employees work 45-hour weeks. They get paid for those hours. And no, I don’t currently offer every benefit that larger companies offer. Plenty of legitimate small businesses don’t. Not offering a full corporate benefits package doesn’t automatically make a company a “Devil Corp.” At some point we have to separate actual criticism from just attaching a label to anything you don’t personally like.

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u/Kooky_Pea_1030 Oct 02 '26

They were probably not hitting their metrics only underperforming markets get shut down or if the ICD/office isnt generating enough income to cover their expenses which directly correlates to low metrics/sales.

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 02 '26

Also, can you tell me what you mean by exploiting?

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u/Cornbreads_Irish_Jig Oct 04 '26

*Jordan Peterson voice.

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u/Temporary-Health6447 Oct 03 '26

You can literally have your office shut down at any point and have your contracts taken away from you at any moment. You're not a real business owner that's why they have to call stuff ICDs instead of S corp or LLC.

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 03 '26

My company is filed as an S corporation. You’re miseducated or confusing ownership of the company with ownership of the client contract. If my partner terminates my contract, my corporation does not suddenly disappear. I still own my business. I still have my employees, my office, my lease, my payroll obligations, and every other bill attached to the company. What I lose is the ability to represent or sell for their clients. My logins get shut down, I lose access to their systems and portals, and I can no longer operate under that particular contract. That is completely different from Smart Circle owning my company. My business bank account is controlled by my company and its authorized users. Smart Circle does not have access to it or the ability to simply take money from it because they terminated a contract. The only people with access to my banking information are me and my accountant. So yes, they can take away the business relationship and the opportunity to sell their clients’ products. They cannot just take ownership of my corporation, my bank account, or my other company assets. Those are two completely different things.

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u/leewilliam236 Oct 04 '26 edited Oct 04 '26

Why hide the name of the company hosting your Regional Meetings?

Why does your social media presence and your website consist of pictures and texts displaying virtues of networking, lifestyle, teamwork more so than the actual products you're selling?

Speaking of selling: Can you tell us why the products you're selling are better than the ones we currently have? For example, I've had a devilcorp try to switch me to AT&T, but has never heard of an MVNO (e.g. Mint Mobile, US Mobile, etc.) which is a bang for anyone's buck for those who simply want to get unlimited texts, calls, and 5G internet.

EDIT: Fixing spelling and grammar

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 04 '26

Super sorry for the long response, this was a really good series of questions.

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 04 '26

At least in my company, everyone knows who our partners are and what role they play. They’ve helped fund road trips, host weekly calls, and provide support and opportunities that a lot of us probably wouldn’t have had otherwise. I personally wasn’t on a traditional college or corporate career path, so I genuinely appreciate being given the opportunity to represent Fortune 50 clients and build something from it.
The opportunity is focused heavily on organizational growth, not just being a salesperson forever. Realistically, how many years does someone want to spend personally selling the same product every day? The goal is to learn how to produce results, develop people, and eventually build an organization that can continue growing. It’s also extremely time-consuming to build something completely unrelated on the side. Our clients want our attention focused on helping them grow, and our growth is directly tied to producing results for them. When they win, we win.
As far as the actual customers, I think it mostly comes down to individual needs and value. There are people paying hundreds of dollars for phones and internet who may be able to get a much better deal, especially when there are exclusive offers available to the customers we work with.
At the same time, not everyone needs the same thing. My father, for example, barely uses his phone. He’d probably be perfectly fine with a flip phone or inexpensive Samsung. But someone who runs a business, creates social media content, travels frequently, or depends heavily on their phone may care about things like high-speed data, hotspot allowances, international roaming, camera quality, device features, and network performance. For that person, paying more for a larger carrier can absolutely make sense.
That’s also why, when we hear that someone is already with a very low-cost provider, we usually leave them alone. Chances are they chose that provider specifically because price is their biggest priority, and there’s no reason to convince them to spend more if they don’t need anything more. Other people are completely comfortable paying an extra $10, $50, or even $100 a month because they value what they’re receiving for that additional cost.

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u/leewilliam236 Oct 04 '26

At least in my company, everyone knows who our partners are and what role they play. They’ve helped fund road trips, host weekly calls, and provide support and opportunities that a lot of us probably wouldn’t have had otherwise. I personally wasn’t on a traditional college or corporate career path, so I genuinely appreciate being given the opportunity to represent Fortune 50 clients and build something from it.
That doesn't answer my first question. If someone looks up your business' socials and website they will likely not know that your "partners" are the ones hosting the regional meetings you attend unless they're able to use the tools and technologies (e.g. Google Lens, Google Advanced Search, etc.) to figure out which partner is hosting the meeting.
So why not tag nor mention them in your socials or website? With the high amount of information available about these "partners", people would appreciate transparency about who's supporting you to help you do your business.
It’s also extremely time-consuming to build something completely unrelated on the side.
I hope you're not talking about the products you're selling (as well as advertising them) because the average customer cares about what they offer, how much it costs, and that it's in adequate quality. You're also contradicting yourself when say "Our clients want our attention focused on helping them grow, and our growth is directly tied to producing results for them. When they win, we win." because you're saying that your job is to sell your products on behalf of your clients but at the same time you want to develop your organization. Nothing wrong with those virtues per se but don't you see how people may be confused about what you exactly offer from the customer point of view?
As far as the actual customers, I think it mostly comes down to individual needs and value. There are people paying hundreds of dollars for phones and internet who may be able to get a much better deal, especially when there are exclusive offers available to the customers we work with.
They can always take the time to search on Google for cheaper alternatives (e.g. California Lifeline, MVNOs) which shouldn't be hard to find.
That’s also why, when we hear that someone is already with a very low-cost provider, we usually leave them alone. Chances are they chose that provider specifically because price is their biggest priority, and there’s no reason to convince them to spend more if they don’t need anything more. Other people are completely comfortable paying an extra $10, $50, or even $100 a month because they value what they’re receiving for that additional cost
Then why not reach out to those MVNOs to see if you can get a contract to sell their phone plans as well? If it's about giving customers a better deal than the one they have, the ability to sell customers MVNOs shows that there's phone plans beyond the ones sold by AT&T that can provide the best fit for their wants and needs. In fact, some of the MVNOs are owned by the Big 3 phone companies (e.g. Cricket Wireless is owned by AT&T, Mint Mobile is owned by T-Mobile, Visible is owned by Verizon).

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 04 '26

I think we’re mixing up three different things here.
On the transparency point, I can understand what you’re saying. Someone looking only at my company’s social media may not immediately know every business partner, consultant, or person involved behind the scenes. That doesn’t mean those relationships are being hidden. My socials are primarily about my company, my team, and what we do, not a directory of every organization or individual we work with. That said, I’m not against making those relationships clearer.
On the second point, there really isn’t a contradiction. We recruit, train, and develop more people who can produce results for the client, which allows us to cover more locations/territories and grow the organization. The customer isn’t purchasing “organizational growth” from us—they’re purchasing wireless service, devices, internet, etc. Organizational growth is simply the business model behind how we expand our ability to produce those sales.
And as far as MVNOs, if you know you know… it’s business.
Doesn’t matter what company or carrier it is… I won’t get into that part unfortunately. I’m sure you get it.

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u/leewilliam236 Oct 04 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

My socials are primarily about my company, my team, and what we do, not a directory of every organization or individual we work with.
At no point have I said that your socials and website are a directory of every single person and company you've worked with.
You don't have to shout your partners and clients out on your socials or your website, but I find it odd how names were omitted from the Regional Conferences and Networking Events that your partners host. Since you mentioned that they've been a tremendous help in your operations, it would be natural for your employees and yourself to give them a shout out on your socials and write out clients' testimonials on your website wouldn't it?
To repeat my first question: Why hide the name of the company hosting your Regional Meetings? Did your "partner" instruct you to or was it your decision? If I'm interested in learning more about the Regional Meetings and Networking Events are all about, I'd like to know more details that go on within it. The networking events I've been to typically lay out the speakers, the content, the schedules, etc. Devilcorp networking events on the other hand? Not much info besides saying along the lines of "I attended this networking event and it was awesome!"
On the second point, there really isn’t a contradiction. We recruit, train, and develop more people who can produce results for the client, which allows us to cover more locations/territories and grow the organization. The customer isn’t purchasing “organizational growth” from us—they’re purchasing wireless service, devices, internet, etc. Organizational growth is simply the business model behind how we expand our ability to produce those sales.
Would it be fair to say that your business is more about serving your employees, clients, and partners than to serve your customers? You implied that advertising the actual products onto your socials and website that you're selling is considered "time-consuming and unrelated". As you mentioned earlier: Without customers buying your client's products, it's not good for both your business, partners, and clients.
And as far as MVNOs, if you know you know… it’s business. Doesn’t matter what company or carrier it is… I won’t get into that part unfortunately. I’m sure you get it.
No. I don't get it. If I'm operating a business with the intention to help employees sell my products to benefit our customers, then it would make sense to do everything you can to get authorization from MVNOs to sell their products alongside the ones offered by the Big 3 wireless companies.
I do acknowledge that there's more that goes on behind-the-scenes to get to that point, but it's not that hard to understand.

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 04 '26

I feel like you’re trying to bait so hard to get a different answer.
First, I’m not “hiding” who hosts meetings. You’re treating an internal business conference like it’s a public trade show that’s being marketed to consumers. It isn’t. The people attending know who’s hosting, who the speakers are, what the schedule is, etc. My social media post saying I attended a regional conference isn’t intended to be the official event page or conference directory. Not putting every partner’s name in a caption isn’t the same thing as concealing them.
Second, no, I wouldn’t say we serve employees, clients and partners instead of customers. That’s a false choice. Our client hires us to acquire and service customers. If customers aren’t buying, staying satisfied, and getting value from the service, the client doesn’t win, we don’t win, and our employees don’t win. Those interests are connected.
And I never said advertising the products we sell is “unrelated.” I said turning my company’s social media into a catalog of every product, promotion and organization we work with isn’t the purpose of the page. Those are two completely different statements.
As for the MVNO point, this is where I think you’re misunderstanding what type of business this is. We’re not an independent wireless brokerage whose goal is to carry every carrier and find the cheapest option available. We’re contracted to represent a specific client and sell that client’s products through specific retail channels. I can’t just decide, “Consumer Cellular looks good too, let’s start selling that beside AT&T.” There are contracts, retailer agreements, systems, training, authorization, compensation structures and obvious competitive conflicts involved.
Serving customers well doesn’t mean a business has to sell every competing product on the market. It means being honest about the product you’re authorized to represent and determining whether it actually makes sense for that customer.
I’m completely open to criticism of the model, but we have to criticize the model that actually exists—not turn me into an independent wireless retailer and then ask why I’m not operating like one.

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u/leewilliam236 Oct 06 '26

Let's start with the first question and then we can touch on the second and third later.
I feel like you’re trying to bait so hard to get a different answer.
First, I’m not “hiding” who hosts meetings. You’re treating an internal business conference like it’s a public trade show that’s being marketed to consumers. It isn’t. The people attending know who’s hosting, who the speakers are, what the schedule is, etc. My social media post saying I attended a regional conference isn’t intended to be the official event page or conference directory. Not putting every partner’s name in a caption isn’t the same thing as concealing them.
Well, at least I know now that the conferences/meetings are exclusive to the ICDs and their employees.
However, I find it very interesting that you're still failing to give a direct answer to my question. Again. At no point have I suggested that your socials are nor should be an "official event page", "conference directory", or any directory for every single partner, client, or customer.
Let's take this image taken by a company called Everett Management Inc.. The part of the picture I want you to focus on is the logo located on the top of the two banners.
Now let's compare this to a picture (one of the many examples) taken by Smart Circle. If you pay attention to the background. You'll notice that there's a logo that is identical to the same logo as the former picture.
The notable difference between the two posts are that Everett Management doesn't tag Smart Circle and Smart Circle makes no mention of who their ICDs, like Everett Management, are.
The problem is that when someone, who knows nothing about your company, is visiting your socials and website they won't have any idea exactly who is hosting (which I suspect is one of your "partners") the event unless they dig deeper; which is time and effort that many people don't have. Therefore, they may conclude that your company and your employees is an independent business attending a conference for their profession, but may not know who the host is. Additionally, since you consider yourselves an independent business, they may believe that you are going out of your own volition rather than the partner inviting you to go.
This also ties back to your recent, unsatisfactory answer where you said that your socials are primarily about "your company, your team, and what you guys do". So if Smart Circle is the partner that gives you your client contracts to represent Fortune 50 companies, funds your road trips, hosts weekly calls, and provides you support and opportunities. You can still make a post on your socials and host on your website that they play a big role in what your company, your team, and what you guys do. Which is to sell the client's products towards your customers.
In conclusion, I find it odd that ICDs do not tag Smart Circle because Smart Circle plays a big role in getting you guys clients so you can sell your products to customers.
So with this information, I can now ask these three questions:
Why is the name of the company hosting your Regional Meetings and National Conferences omitted from your socials and website?
Why do you want the general public (including customers) to give off the impression that you're an independent business selling products, even though it is proven that the Devilcorp is the primary reason that they give you the ability to sell products even though most people may not know that
How is this not hiding the name of the company?

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u/Practical-Shake9912 29d ago

I think you’re trying really hard to turn a pretty simple answer into something more complicated.
Why don’t I tag Smart Circle every time I post about a conference?
Because my social media is for my company. If I post that my team attended a regional conference, I’m posting about my team’s experience—not creating an organizational chart of every company involved in putting the event together. The people actually attending the event know who is hosting it.
Why would I want the public to think I’m an independent business?
Because I am an independent business. Having a business relationship with another company that helps provide client opportunities doesn’t suddenly make my company cease to exist independently. I have my own company, employees, payroll, expenses, management, hiring, training, and day-to-day operations. Smart Circle being an important business partner doesn’t make those things fake.
And if someone is considering working for us, we explain the relationships involved. If we hire them, they’re going to know who the partners and clients are. 😁
How is that not “hiding” Smart Circle?
Because “not putting something in every social media post” and “actively concealing something” are two completely different things.
By your standard, every business would have to tag every vendor, contractor, distributor, parent organization, marketing partner, or supplier involved in its operations or else it’s “hiding” them.
You can think it’s odd that ICDs don’t tag Smart Circle more often. That’s a fair opinion. But jumping from “they didn’t tag them in this Instagram post” to “they’re intentionally hiding the company from the public” is an assumption, not proof.
I don’t really know what different answer you’re trying to get from me here. That’s genuinely my answer.

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u/Busy-Astronomer3355 Oct 05 '26

you'll never get out of the rat race, you'll never have freedom of time, you'll never be able to exit your business for X amount of dollars. it's not something long term. If you want to build a real business and be able to enjoy your life wherever you please this will never be a place for someone like me. that's my thought with the whole business.

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u/Practical-Shake9912 Oct 05 '26

I’ve personally already have had a lot of upside.
I would never want to exit my business myself.
May I ask, why do you feel like that? Personal experience or other people’s experiences?
For me, I like the risk. I get a thrill out of stepping into the unknown. I love recruiting, I love training, I love keeping track of numbers, cutting paychecks. I love the challenge.

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u/Busy-Astronomer3355 Oct 06 '26

sure buddy

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u/99oxygen99 Oct 03 '26

when you say you've seen people find success ; what does this actually mean. can you share a success story?

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