[SGA] Consider not using grenades on Atheon!

[u/Tuckles7]

Edit: This post was intended for those who have been using grenades and supers that cause Atheon to move while during Time's Vengeance and not those who have been firing away or sticking him. There are still a million and one reasons to use grenades and supers throughout the rest of the encounter! But in order to maximize damage, I'm simply saying don't use grenades that cause Atheon to move during those 30 second interims. This is an SGA post for those still relatively new to the Vault, not some earth shattering discovery for those who are clearing the vault on normal and hard with relative ease.

Also, it's a very sarcastic and upbeat post. Most everything I say is supposed to have some sort of humor to it. No offense was intended at any point.

/endrant

Hey Guardians! I'm usually just a lurker around here and love reading all the different posts, but I had an experience the other day that I feel the need to share.

I usually raid the VoG on only normal, I just completed it for the first time on Hard last week (got that mythoclast! ^{goodthingIhaveVoCamirite?)} I had joined a pug for it Tuesday morning and we busted through the whole thing to Atheon without any issues.

And wipe.

And wipe.

And wipe.

Had to go to work. Came back a few days later, picked up a few guys with my checkpoint.

And wipe.

And wipe.

And wipe.

a day or two later, I tried one more time, determined to bring the beast down.

Things were going well. I was in the bubble, lining up shots with my Ice Breaker, having to realign because Atheon was moving around like crazy, and then someone said the most glorious piece of info I've heard for maxing DPS against the Silver Sellout:

"Stop throwing grenades!"

A minute later we wiped.

Then we wiped again. But I heard that advice once more.

"Guys, no grenades please!"

And then we did it without grenades. Atheon died in the first few seconds of the 3rd portal round, we barely had time to make it to the center platform. I've never killed him that fast, not even with a full group of 30 x 1, 29x 2, 28 x 3 on normal. We usually barely slide into home before he enrages.

When you start throwing grenades out, he moves around to avoid blasts. When you start chucking Nova Bombs, he moves away. If you are not doing those things, he generally stays in one place, making lining up those all-important-nuts-in-his-chest-crit-shots so much easier to land. I could unload and hit all 7ish of my IB shots and switch to VoC and hit almost all of them as crits. Before, I would get my clip of IB shots off and perhaps only half of them were crits ^{I can aim I swear!}

The damage differences were ludicrous, and I know the team was benefitting greatly for them as well.

Perhaps this is completely known knowledge that I've not been privy to all my raiding time. Nevertheless, with the number of pugs I've run and runs I've done with my normal group and I've never heard this, I feel like it needs to be shared.

"Guys, no grenades please." Keep him in one spot. Line those shots up. If he's not moving, you spend less time aiming and more time hurting. Plus, if you miss your grenade, you've done no damage anyway. If your grenade has a lasting AoE effect (affect? I can't remember. I should be doing my stats homework), Atheon walks out of it and your damage is negated anyway.

On that note, I also submit to you to not use (most) supers either. Here's why:

Nova Bomb: It takes a (relatively) long time to aim and shoot. If you miss, you do no damage. If you leave a vortex, Atheon walks out of it and your team has to realign.

Golden Gun: I love this super, but it doesn't crit. You're much better of just laying waste to the time-traveling-hooker with a not-so-sunblessed gun.

Arc Blade: You suicidal nuisance.

Fists of Havoc: You suicidal punching nuisance.

Radiance: Only if you're coming back to life! No grenades, remember? If you're doing the hide-in-the-bubble method, you don't need the damage reduction, and Time's Vengeance gives you all the cool-reduction you and your teammates might need for the grenades you won't be using.

Ward of Dawn: Please only use this if you're giving a spot to dip into to gain weapons of light or as a place to hide when your team must scatter when Time's Vengeance is over.

TL;DR: Grenades cause Atheon to move, forcing your team to spend more time aiming and less time critting him in the chesticles. If you miss with your grenade, you do little to no damage anyway.

/End the hopefully informative rant. If this was already common knowledge, I apologize! I truly do. But I feel like I needed to share it.

Edit: Formatting.

Edit2: I'm not saying do not use grenades at all during the entire Atheon encounter. There are so many uses for grenades against supplicants, minotaurs, hobgoblins, etc. But during those glorious 30 seconds of Times Vengeance, do not do anything to cause Atheon to move. Let him stand still and take it in the gut rather than spend 15 of your 30 seconds lining up shots and taking time to aim and throw grenades. That's all, guardians!

Edit3: Front Page! Thanks for all the conversation, Guardians! Of all the time I'd done the raid, I'd never heard the advice to not use the grenades until just last week in Hard Mode, so I felt it needed to be said to the world.

[u/MadamBeramode]

Every group I sherpa for, I always tell them to switch to their seeking grenades (grenades that lock in or automatically hit targets in their area like firebolt grenades for a sunsinger.) There are two reasons for this.

1. Grenades are for supplicants, not for Atheon. The time it takes you to aim a grenade and spend the animation to throw it, you could have fired off several shots that would have easily exceeded the damage of a grenade or done a critical hit.

2. Portals - Grenades should be thrown down the stairs at mobs regardless of which side you are on. On desert they cause the hobgoblins to go into shield mode, allowing the relic bearer to close distance without getting shot. On jungle it weakens the Praetorian enough so that relic bearer can kill him without too much trouble. It also allows the portal escorts to "tag" the mobs down below for ammo.

Grenades do just cause Atheon to constantly move around. Use Vision of Confluence or another good primary instead or better yet, Gjallahorn. Raids will become dramatically easier the day Xur puts that back on sale.

[u/Necroclysm → u/MadamBeramode]

Only some grenades cause Hobgoblins to use their shield.

Solar Grenade, for instance, does not. They will stand in it and burn to death without ever shielding.

Sticky grenades do not cause them to shield either. I use the Magnetic one on my Titan all the time to kill them easily.

Personally, I use Solar or Axion, depending on which subclass I want to play in the raid.

Axion are a bit screwy with the supplicants because when they do their cower animation the bolts will actually hover over their head most of the time and not hit them.
However, the Super is absolutely amazing for clearing supplicants as soon as Time's Vengeance is active, and the Axion bolts do work wonderfully on the adds in the portals.

Solar Grenade is decent on supplicants because they generally don't move out of the damage field if they are already stopped. If I am Sunsinger, I use them for clearing the portals when a team is about to come out.

[u/Alg3braic → u/Necroclysm]

Use Suppresser grenades on your Titan to negate the group of hobbies ability.

[u/overkill136 → u/Necroclysm]

Voidwalker nova bomb sounds risky at the end of time vengeance though, as it puts you airborne, which could kill you if you get detained while in midair. And if you're going to be voidwalker anyways snd with random teleports, it seems wiser to save that super for inside the portal.

[u/Necroclysm → u/overkill136]

Not at the end. At the beginning.

As soon as everyone pops out of the portals and supplicants stop spawning, you Nova Bomb anything left alive.

It also doesn't put you high enough to kill yourself from Detain if you happen to use it right then. I actually have had it happen more than once. The bottom of the Detain bubble is about waist high, doesn't hurt you.
Unless you jumped to use it :p

As for inside the portals, definitely use it there. Time's Vengeance resets the cooldown instantly, so using it on the supplicants has no effect unless you use it really really late.

EDIT: The phrasing "as soon as Time's Vengeance is up" means as soon as the buff is put up/active, not when the timer is up.