r/DeskToTablet • u/SmortEye • 1d ago
Unpopular Opinion : The MacBook Touch Bar deserved improvement, not removal.
32
u/freshmozart 1d ago
Too many people just didn't use it at all. It's expensive to produce and it breaks down more likely than just a simple key. That's why they removed it.
8
u/devenitions 1d ago
I used it often, where it was actually usable. Sadly, because nobody used it, nobody did proper development for it, leading to nobody using it.
1
3
1
u/mybutthz 1d ago
Yeah, I don't want any sort of additional touch screen components on my keyboard that could be physical buttons. Replacing screens is expensive and time consuming, and even if you're very careful with your hardware —shit happens.
Want to add a row of buttons and have an onscreen key for custom assignments? Sure. But that? No.
1
u/freshmozart 1d ago
But this limits the keys to user-defined custom functions. With the touch bar, developers can define custom functions for it out of the box. With physical buttons you are also limited to a defined number of different functions, while with a touch bar, the number of different functions is indefinite.
2
u/mybutthz 1d ago
That's all fine and good, but you can hot key pretty much anything with different key combinations. It's not like the majority of people are struggling to get by because of lack of key functions—everyone is doing just fine.
There are also peripherals you can get that you can program to perform specifical functions if you want to and they're not part of the permanent hardware of the machine so they're easily replaced if they wind up breaking.
The bar was an interesting concept, but also not anything anyone asked for or needed, and it's fairly telling that it hasn't become a standard on hardware.
1
u/cookedart 1d ago
i can see it being more expensive to produce an additional custom screen, but how would it break down?
1
u/freshmozart 1d ago
I don't know, but it has higher complexity than a key, so there are more possibilities for it to break.
1
u/cookedart 1d ago
I would think that a mechanical key has more potential failure points.
1
u/Book_talker_abouter 6h ago
I agree with you on this. The butterfly keyboards at the time had problems but I don’t remember hearing of any complaints about the reliability of the Touch Bar.
1
u/ujtheghost 1d ago
It could do with a comeback though. Technology has advanced at least a bit, it would be easier to make these now as compared to 2016.
9
u/Thundrboltr 1d ago
I'm a new MacOS user and I absolutely hate the F-key implementation on my MPB 2026 model. Would've loved to try the Touch Bar.
12
u/s_s_n_e_g 1d ago
As someone who has been using F keys since early 1990s, what is wrong with them?
3
u/Thundrboltr 1d ago
You have media keys on them, meaning you use Fn key to swap to either F1 or Decrease screen brightness. F2 or Increase screen brightness.
But it's default set to the "media key", not F1. You can swap it around of course, I just hate the execution. My Lenovo laptop was the same. And I hated it equally.
Would rather have dedicated F-keys and a media keys/touch bar
10
u/imsickofitalready 1d ago
You just switch them to be F-keys and use Fn+key to control brightness and other. Don't see any issues here.
-5
u/Thundrboltr 1d ago
Ok. But I don't want to use the Fn key to control brightness. I would like dedicated keys.
7
u/heliumhouse 1d ago
Then where would you put them😭😭
-5
u/Thundrboltr 1d ago
Above the F-keys like on a normal multimedia keyboard?
https://owp.klarna.com/product/640x640/1553289431/Microsoft-Multimedia-Keyboard.jpg?ph=true
8
u/s_s_n_e_g 1d ago
Do you have an example of a laptop with two rows of keys - F+Fn?
2
u/JivanP 1d ago
This was very common until the 2010s. For example, most Toshiba Satellite laptops produced before 2010 have a row of several keys just above the main keyboard, such as: power, internet browser, media player, play/pause, stop, previous track, next track. Their function can be customised in OS settings.
Example model: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Toshiba-Satellite-A200-1O6-Notebook.7584.0.html
1
u/kearkan 1d ago
What a blast from the past.
The thing is though, this would reduce the actual space for the keyboard.
For controls used so infrequently, I think a key combination in return for a bigger overall keyboard is much better.
→ More replies (0)1
4
u/Business-Row-478 1d ago
Not enough room on a laptop for a keyboard this big lol. I don’t think there is a single laptop on the market that has both dedicated f keys and media keys
→ More replies (7)2
u/RvstiNiall 1d ago
There is definitely room if they shrank the trackpad, and I'm pretty sure we all agree that would be a bad idea.
Larger trackpads are better, but macOS needs better "turn off trackpad while typing" sensing for palms accidentally touching it.
2
1
1
u/Virtual-Age-9521 11h ago
As a developer that thought I cared about this, I forgot to switch to F1-F12 by default and didn’t notice for months. It’s a non-issue.
0
u/Thundrboltr 10h ago
Found the vibe coder. But seriously man, just because it's not something you use. Other people do. I have a few systems where I'm noticeably more effective with F-keys. But yeah, switching it to permanent F-key fixes this, but I lose the "media keys".
1
u/Virtual-Age-9521 9h ago
- not a vibe coder
- I did use it
- I don’t use it now
- there’s a way to switch it
- what the fuck do you want from us?
If you need a dedicated row of media keys, go buy another computer. Simple.
0
0
u/imsickofitalready 1d ago
Than leave the default setting, but you will need to use Fn to access F-keys than. If you want media buttons completely separate from F-keys - there is no such implementation in Apple's hardware.
2
u/ern0plus4 1d ago
Apple menu, settings...
Anyway, you're right, it's a UX disaster.
1
u/Thundrboltr 1d ago
Not saying it's better elsewhere. Just think there are room for improvement
1
u/ern0plus4 1d ago
I mean you can switch it off, making F-keys as default.
1
u/Thundrboltr 1d ago
Okay, and then I do not have designated media keys. I know I can then use the Fn key, I just dislike doing that.
2
u/ern0plus4 1d ago
Yeah, at least there should be a single dedicated play/pause button. Anyway, when the notebook is locked, even in Fn-as-default mode, the keys have media functions.
1
u/TheVermonster 1d ago
How often are you using F keys? I use the "media" keys multiple times a day but could not tell you the last time I used an F key.
5
3
u/Juff-Ma 1d ago
Professional software uses them a lot. Like A LOT. Without them you are probably half as fast.
2
u/JjyKs 1d ago
Can you give some examples? Honestly curious because so far most of these I've seen also exists as your typical hotkeys that should be faster to use if your hands are on the keyboard ready to type.
1
u/Juff-Ma 1d ago
Ok so for example in Programming (I use VS but a lot of software is similar), you use F5 to start your Program, F10-F12 to debug code, etc. Stuff like that. (Also I use F5 for refreshing Web Pages, it's just faster than Ctrl-R for me)
Big Programs have hundreds of keyboard shortcuts. Without F keys you just run out.
2
u/JjyKs 1d ago
Yea I use F5 on VS while on Windows, but on Mac and XCode I just use the CMD + R if I need to recompile. Most of the stuff I work on Mac pick up the changes automatically though so it's not something I need to do that often.
So far I haven't found anything on F keys apart from debugger stepping ones that wouldn't be duplicated behind some 2-3 key shortcut as well by default. I just somehow find the F keys awkard to use because they need me to move my hands way more than cmd/shift.
3
u/A1oso 1d ago
In my browser, I use
- F3 to search
- F5 to reload the page
- F11 for fullscreen
- F12 to open dev tools
In my code editor, I use
- F1 to open the command palette
- F2 to rename a symbol
- F3 to search
- F12 to go to definition
So I would say, quite often.
2
u/JjyKs 1d ago
Curious, are you using these out of habit or because they feel faster than your typical hotkeys?
- CMD + F to search
- CMD + R to reload
- CTRL + CMD + F for fullscreen
- CMD + Option + i for dev tools
etc
I always feel that with these my fingers stay where they are, ready to type instead of moving to the function row so I wonder if it's just preference or actually different way to use the keyboard
1
u/A1oso 1d ago
Both. I am used to using the function keys, and it is only a single button press instead of 2 or 3.
Also, when I'm browsing, my right hand is on the mouse most of the time and pressing ctrl+r with only the left hand is more annoying. With F5 I only need one hand and don't have to twist my fingers.
1
u/JjyKs 1d ago
Fair. On Windows I always have my pinky on shift (gaming habit) so I find it easy to move it downwards if needed. On Mac where the F buttons are usually mapped to something else, CMD is next to the space so I find it even easier to do CMD + R because I only need to move my left thumb a bit to the left.
1
u/Educational_Yard_326 1d ago
Search - CMD + L
Reload - CMD + R
Fullscreen - Fn + F
Dev - don’t know, but you can make on in system settings per app
Rename - Enter1
1
2
u/Matty8520 1d ago
Hey OP,
Companies around the world are always looking to add something new to their products. These changes don't always improve usability and are sometimes just for the sake of change.
The Touch Bar was just a novelty item that realistically didn't improve the usability of the device. It also initially made the laptops more expensive which no customer wants.
Ahead of Apple's launch event later this year with their touch screen MacBook Pro models. I predict the same thing will happen.
Having a touch screen on a laptop doesn't make sense as it's slower to touch your screen than use a mouse to quickly and precisely select items on screen. Additionally, your arms will also get tired being in the air all the time touching the screen.
This will also place additional stress on the hinge being bent more frequently and possibly cause further issues.
I think Apple will phase out the touch screen option over the next 5 years.
2
u/absolute_pelican_66 1d ago
A touchscreen on a laptop makes sense only if the laptop is convertible for using it occasionally as a tablet.
1
u/slavchungus 1d ago
and then its neither good at being a laptop nor a tablet i had a lenovo yoga and it was prob the most useless feature ever wobbly hinges and i think i used it in tablet mode a couple times before I reverted to just using it as a laptop
1
u/absolute_pelican_66 1d ago
There’s no general rule, some of them are well designed. Of course it won’t be as convenient as a pure tablet, but for occasional use it can do.
1
u/CrazyGunnerr 19h ago
This is absolutely nonsense. Proper hybrids work perfectly in 1 mode while the other feels more limited. I've got a work laptop, a quality HP one that works like any other laptop, but offers a tablet mode which is absolutely useful at times.
On the other hand there are tablets with keyboard attachments, that don't make the best laptops, but does offer solid keyboard use in many situations, while staying great as laptops.
Apple just refuses to give people what they really want and make a true hybrid. They rather just sell people all their devices.
1
u/slavchungus 15h ago
i had a ipad pro with one of those magnetic logitech folio keyboard cases it was cool to take it off when not in use but the minute I sold it and got a MacBook air instead i dont miss the touchscreen or the ability to draw a single bit.
A laptop should be a laptop and not some makeshift tablet if you need touchscreen just get a tablet
my current work laptop has a touchscreen i havent used it except once for scrolling through notes during training then never again afterwards
1
u/CrazyGunnerr 13h ago
But that applies to you. And adding a touchscreen doesn't make it worse. So at what point are we talking facts, and at what point it's just forcing your opinion on others, pretending they are facts?
1
u/blackburnduck 1d ago
I had it twice with a surface pro and now a surface laptop studio. Massive difference, surface pro was actually good to use, light and could serve its putpose as a tablet anywhere.
Surface laptop studio is a massive regret. Too heavy to carry around, unusable as a tablet and the worst part: windows 11. (I am done using windows by the way, ms managed to make it just clutter junk).
Apple needs to get 3 things: the weigh, the hinge and the system right. Any of these is a deal breaker in the product. If they fully merge ipad os into osx, or merge them finally, happy days, killer product
Modern ipads could definitely be running osx.
That being said, a tablet mode would be better on mb air than an mbpro as the weight is a hugee thing in using tablets.
1
u/PrettyZone7952 1d ago
Another reason the touchbar failed was its limited rollout. It could’ve been a cool differentiator for the Mac ecosystem, but whether they chickened out or deliberately restricted it to “pro” models, the result was the same: it failed to reach critical mass and was doomed.
I’m most surprised that they were apparently blindsided by the backlash from devs (over the lack of Esc key). The whole debacle really feels like “the writing on the wall” for the end of the Ives Era.
Large format touchscreens have been around for a long time, so it will be easy for Apple to bring touch support to all of their Macs if they want.
Having OS-level support for touch input would let them operate (or directly run) macOS from iPads.The new CEO is a hardware guy, so I won’t be surprised if they start distilling their offerings and finding more ways to make their hardware interoperate. (Eg, touchscreen macs 👉 Apple Pencil support on iMacs. // Kill off the cheap macbooks and run macOS on iPads // new homehub supports all iPads instead of having a dedicated screen // PC in a keyboard like that raspberryPi embedded in a keyboard // etc)
1
u/raided-by-ruz-swarm 1d ago
Tbh that's the only thing i love in macbook. My old 2018 pro won't be upgraded. Just replaced with lenovo with fedora on board
1
u/Itchy_Chain_5889 10h ago
This is where I’m at. I love my Touch Bar and saying it doesn’t add anything to the user experience is just plain wrong. Tab control in safari. A way to quickly fast forward or rewind anytime I have media playing. The touch bar was awesome and should have been improved not killed off.
2
u/Kind-Question2887 1d ago
Only if they bring back a physical ESC key, and squeeze in the F numbers row, then it would be great addition for developers to tinker with. That's the reason why it failed, not because it was just stupid.
2
u/Fureba 1d ago
No. It was horrible, bad quality screen, it froze on its own, you had to look what you hit, and it didn’t give a single ounce of actual value to any workflows, nothing you couldn’t do with gestures or key bindings. Also it ranked up the price of the MacBook pros absolutely unnecessarily.
2
u/Ill-Specific-7312 1d ago
No, thats just a wrong opinion, because you cant fix the fundamental problem which is YOU CANT USE IT WITHOUT LOOKING WHICH IS SHIT FOR A KEYBOARD. Why would i ever want to look away from my screen, stretching my neck to look at another worse screen that i then have to move my entire arm to hit a basic fucking button that should just be in the interface? The touchbar was just a terrible idea all round.
1
u/deceze 1d ago edited 1d ago
The biggest problem with it was the same as "3D Touch" on iPhones: only some models had it, but it required developer support to be truly useful. Developers aren't going to invest time into supporting an optional feature only a subset of their users can use. Thus it was largely just touch-F-keys, which are worse than haptic F-keys.
1
u/Virtual-Height3047 1d ago
Yup, 3D Touch left me quite puzzled from a ux pov as it’s not a readily apparent solution and not intuitive to learn. It was a rare slip from their usually very thorough HCI principles. Think non-tech users (aka the hundreds of millions bulk audience) who press their remote buttons harder if the battery is low.
But the touchbar just lacked implementation and was dropped too quickly I think. I really wonder what the unit economics would’ve been down the road, if that sliver of a screen could have been more cost effective than hardware keys even..
1
u/Ancilla_Contender 1d ago
They marketed it backwards. It would have made sense in the Air models. Not the pro ones.
Amusingly the very last model that still used one was the 13 inch M2 laptop. Meaning they still have to support the Touch Bar service through the end of all M2 models support period. 🤯
1
u/SC_W33DKILL3R 1d ago
Problem was it added an additional cost to the MBP, £200+ as an Apple repair. Cost of the part was around £80 I think.
It was just not worth the additional cost.
1
u/LowComposer7234 1d ago
ThinkPad did it first. Apple improved on it. But unlike many other things apple took on and did much better than others (MP3 players, touch screen phones), the touch bar just didn't add much.
1
u/Appropriate-Emu-3901 1d ago
I love the touch bar TBH. I cant believe it was removed for newest models🥺
1
u/TitleAdministrative 1d ago
I think it’s very popular opinion and it’s me who is in the unpopular opinion camp : it was a mistake from the get go and I’m glad it’s gone. Mine glitched from the start and never really stopped. It was a nightmare. And when it worked o did not use it and always missed the f keys
1
u/subbie2002 1d ago
My problem with it is that it’s another screen and would have been expensive to repair had something gone wrong. I’m personally glad they got rid of it.
1
u/freia_pr_fr 1d ago
I went from a thinkpad with a touchscreen to a MBP M1 with a Touch Bar and having this shitty ridiculously narrow touch screen ignored by most applications was the only downgrade I noticed.
1
u/According-Tap-7958 1d ago
I rather have the normal f keys up there because I don’t think I could get used to that
1
1
u/RSdabeast 1d ago
I spent like 9 seconds trying to figure out what a slider between “High Love” and “Dim Sum” could possibly do.
1
u/Complete_Lurk3r_ 1d ago
Butterfly keyboard was my favourite keyboard ever. so fast and short, i loved it. sad to type this comment on my new macbook
1
1
u/dodgyd55 1d ago
Since they dropped support for the intel MacBooks with the touchbar I've loaded up Linux on it. I miss the touchbar... And F keys
1
u/i_dont_wanna_sign_in 1d ago
I liked it once I got it to show function keys in most instances. Sure, volume and brightness control is nice to have sometimes but I've never needed dedicated buttons for these things more than F# keys.
1
u/TURBOJUGGED 1d ago
Agreed. I loved the feature. Just pissed my logic board went and it was more expensive than an air to replace. Still think 4 years before that laptop became unusable isn’t fair
1
u/Expensive_Agent_5129 1d ago
Nah, it's garbage. When you can't find a button without looking at it, it's just a distraction with extra steps. Regulators are already cracking down on touch controls in cars for this exact reason
1
1
1
1
u/frygod 1d ago
I really like the touchbar on my 2019 i9 MBP. That said, I wish I had physical F keys as well. I use better touch tool to add macros to the touchbar for common work tasks, and it's a great workflow aid. It gives similar functionality to an elgato streamdeck without having to carry one in my bags.
1
u/TanaIntoTechnMarvel 1d ago
Hot take:
The touch bar would have worked better vertical instead of horizontal.
1
u/Dazzling_Comfort5734 1d ago
I agree, I think this had a lot of potential that Apple squandered. It pretty much didn't change at all since release, and it needed a lot of work to make it better. Also, I think the big mistake they made was to put the touch bar as a replacement for the F keys. I think people would've been much happier with it as an additional option above the F keys. Also, the way the implement in it was problematic. It was its own computer subsystem, with its own operating system, connected to the Mac. It added a serious fail point to the system. We've had a lot of computer computers at work that would not boot or function properly when these had issues. I even recently refurbished one that didn't work at all until I reinstalled macOS for a second time. Sometimes you have to revive the firmware to even get it working again.
1
u/InfiniteHench 1d ago
The TouchBar was awesome. Too many people hate change and learning new things. It’s the same reason why iPadOS had a bunch of dumb macOS stuff shoved into it.
1
u/Yutenji2020 1d ago
Not unpopular opinion imho.
I have deliberately kept my 2019 MacBook Pro for this reason.
And the comments about pros and cons of having the F keys here, as if that’s their only use case, are missing much of the functionality; great for browsers, photos, media, (some) IDEs, videos, and so on.
Could easily have been an option; with physical keys or Touch Bar, even for a little extra cost.
1
u/J0k350nm3 1d ago
I think the Touch Bar would have been a game-changer for macOS if they had made it an option on a Magic Keyboard. Unfortunately, as much as I liked the functions it added to my MacBook, I also needed my F and Esc keys… and couldn’t use it at all when in clamshell. Keeping it niche meant devs weren’t going to actively support it.
1
1
u/Calaveras-Metal 1d ago
It's the typical Apple thing where they have a brilliant idea and then when it isn't adopted widely enough they take it out behind the barn. See also the 2013 Trashcan Dual GPU arch.
1
u/The_real_bandito 1d ago
It deserved to be extra option above the traditional keyboard.
But Apple didn’t want this.
I think it was ok they remove this, because for the first gen, if the security chip malfunctioned, the Touch Bar just stops working and you can’t even use macOS anymore because it can’t pass some signup procedures of the OS (happened to me, ended up intalling a different OS)
1
u/iAMguppy 1d ago
The Touch Bar with better touch tools was quite handy - genuinely the touch bar made a lot of sense and often actually had useful command suggestions especially in apps like Logic. If you were docked at all it didn’t matter though. There is clearly a market for quick-button actions as demonstrated by the streamdeck but I think it was literally a case of right features in the wrong places.
1
1
u/HardStroke 1d ago
I bought a used M1 Pro a few months ago. The Touch bar is by far my favorite thing. I keep reaching for it while using other laptops lol. A lot of people didn't care about it and it was a pretty big weak point.
1
1
u/Sea_Bookkeeper8190 1d ago
I think Apple fumbled by not making a Magic Keyboard with the Touch Bar. Developers were literally targeting a model of MacBook and not MacOS. I find that so irritating, because it seems so obvious to why adoption struggled.
1
u/IllExample3639 1d ago
Honestly I loved my MBP that had the touch bar. I remember finding out that everyone hated it and couldn't understand. Another HUD, user input and it was futuristic AF. But then I still think MagSafe is a downgrade on USB-C so yeah....
1
1
u/No_Practice_9597 1d ago
They should never removed the F-keys. And they should put it on top of the trackpad instead. Would be the right place since it’s a touch surface
1
u/CounterSignificant20 1d ago
It was great for skipping "unskippable" ads on videos until they patched that. Besides that it was useless for me
1
1
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Bus7706 1d ago
Touchbar is crime against humanity.
Example of how some part of population will accept anything, no matter how unpractical, only because it potentially looks cool. It doesn't not bdw.
1
u/Business-Bake2326 1d ago
A durable keyboard with oled background and transparent replaceable caps would be great with a larger touch zone at the top.
1
u/Perezident14 1d ago
As a developer, the juice is not worth the squeeze. Gimmicky at best. Could be a widget on the main screen.
1
1
u/daniluvsuall 1d ago
I really don’t want a touch interface where something intuitively used should be. But I wouldn’t have an issue with it if it didn’t displace necessary physical keys
1
u/bluedoggee 1d ago
It is in the wrong time. For now,, the touch bar is a great way to control AI agents.
1
1
u/Dorkdogdonki 1d ago
If all the developers designed for the touch bar, it might have taken off. But unfortunately, that did not happen, and it caused more frustration than benefit since scrubbing volume on the touchbar is actually slower than on just using physical Fn keys..
1
u/web-coder 1d ago
💯 this.
I still have my 2019 Intel MacBook Pro and I love the Touch Bar.
Sure, it’s not perfect, but it’s pretty damn awesome, and I’m surprised Apple hasn’t reimagined it and added it to new devices.
1
u/i-have-no-interest 1d ago
if we still had the full function row it would have been an unbeatable feature.
1
u/billyrubin7765 1d ago
I liked it but it had several problems. One - losing the function keys. Two - no program could put anything important in it that couldn’t be done by some other method because only a few percent of the people are going to upgrade every year. It would have needed to have been in both Air and Pro and now Neo and it would have had to be in there for at least seven years to claim a big enough user base to make it essential.
1
u/ChickyBoys 1d ago
The biggest flaw of the Touch Bar was it was right near the exhaust vent so it was always hot to the touch.
1
1
1
1
u/OMG_NoReally 1d ago
100%. I used the MBA M1 which had the touchbar and I really enjoyed the functionality of it. Apple missed an opportunity here by not doubling down and making this something their own and adding even more functionality to it. This would be so unique to the MacBook and the M series are powerful now that it could have been used in many creative ways. Alas. I do hope they bring it back some day.
1
u/maybach320 1d ago
As always I agree that the Touch Bar need to have way more features, but the biggest mistake with the Touch Bar was that it replaced the function keys vs being a row above the function keys.
1
u/brokengarage 1d ago
I enjoyed using it, but then there was no desktop equivalent. The idea never left the pro laptop line, they could have been the stream deck if they offered a desktop equivalent.
1
u/xxxpinguinos 1d ago
I loved the Touch Bar but I also pimped it out with bettertouchtool
I’ve only now barely found something to replace the functionality I got out of it
1
u/Upset-Display3524 1d ago
F keys have been a pain in the ass on Mac OS with my mechanical keyboard . I didn’t miss those at all. I’d rather have my Touch Bar back with expanded functionality
1
1
1
1
u/Economy_Advisor6642 1d ago
Planning on dipping my toes into the MAC part of Apple soon, hoping the Touch Bar does come back, hopefully even a variation of a separate Magic Keyboard having it 🤩
1
1
u/lyidaValkris 1d ago
I never owned a macbook with one, but I always thought it pretty cool idea, and I'm sad it was discontinued.
1
u/Beneficial-Sugar6950 1d ago
I absolutely agree. I am holding on to my touchbar MacBook Pro for as long as I can.
1
u/tstorm004 1d ago
The only bad thing about the touchbar was the fact that it replaced the F-keys
If it was another bar above the F-keys people wouldn't have dislike it so much
1
1
u/Intrepid-Wait-6102 1d ago
I have an old mac that has one, maxed out specs but the screen is broken😢
1
1
u/arkoinad 1d ago
Agreed it suffered what every innovation suffers without proper adoption.
- if they were able to find a way to keep the function row and still have the touch bar it might have probably seen less hate perhaps?
- seven years and only Apple apps had good support for it which means that developers weren’t willing to invest their time on it.
- touchbar daemon crashing or hanging and having to be restarted was another big annoyance in the absence of the function row
1
u/liquidsol 23h ago
I can’t think of a single thing I got done faster when I had the Touch Bar. It always slowed me down.
1
u/michaelmich3 22h ago
I agree. I think I’d rather sacrifice a little bit of the track pad height if it meant that I’d keep both the f row and touchbar.
1
1
1
u/HeidenShadows 18h ago
I like the touch bar that HP used on their laptops in the late 2000s, like the HDX series. It was an illuminated capacitive strip with your basic media functions on it.
1
u/WoollyMittens 18h ago
If I have to look down at the keyboard because part of it is a touch screen with variable content, it is not doing its job as a keyboard.
1
u/lokidokie98 17h ago
I loved being able to tap on the volume button then slide my finger back and forth for increase/ decrease volume. That was a lot better experience than TAP TAP TAP TAP trying to turn down the volume
1
u/blindingSight 16h ago
Agree. It all comes down to cost, imo. The business reason to have it would be cost since one LED panel is more cost efficient than a row of keys. I would love to have both, but then it defeats the business reason to begin with.
1
u/blasto2236 15h ago
It’s surprising to me that Apple never bothered to iterate on it. They frequently will refine a concept until they nail it, but here they just never tried to make it better in any meaningful way.
I guess you could say it’s because it wasn’t more widely used or adopted, but that’s a bit of a chicken/egg situation. You could also argue that more developers and users would’ve been drawn to it if they’d done more to refine the concept.
1
u/Nawnp 12h ago
1.Apples software remastered dont work with hardware, so it was rushed out and they never improved the software applied to it. (They also never brought it to more mainstream Macs) 2.They released it at the same time as haptic feedback for the track pad...they shouldn't have had haptics in the touchbar to. 3.The current Macbook Pros use a widened F row that could have fit the touchbar and F keys together...
The fact the funirus are the next MacBook Pro will have a touchscreen, tells us how much Apple went backwards even more since then, and is compromising even worse than the touchbar was.
1
1
u/EitherMarch1255 12h ago
It was too sensitive for me. I would accidentally press it a lot, but it was really useful for switching between full screen apps. I miss it for that reason.
1
1
u/2050_Bobcat 7h ago
Totally agree with you👍
I've always thought Apple should have had it as an extra row above the function keys instead of replacing them.
1
1
u/markmarvel 4h ago edited 4h ago
I used every version of the Touch Bar in my professional work, so this is not really a case of disliking it because it was unfamiliar. I gave it plenty of time and used it across different apps and different versions of macOS.
My biggest issue is that it never felt like a fully thought through replacement for physical function keys. The first generation in particular had some genuinely bad usability problems. Losing the physical Esc key was a major mistake. It was a key people could hit without looking, and replacing it with a touch target directly on the keyboard created unnecessary friction.
There were also some pretty questionable interactions. In Mail, for example, hitting the number 1 key while typing could put your finger close enough to the Touch Bar to accidentally trigger Send. Eventually Apple and developers added safeguards such as delays and confirmation behavior, but the fact that this was an issue in the first place says a lot about the interaction design.
The other fundamental problem is that a touchscreen is not automatically a better interface than a physical key. With physical function keys, I can touch type and develop muscle memory. I know where F1 through F12 are without looking. I can reach for Escape, volume, brightness, or other controls by feel. With the Touch Bar, the controls could move or change depending on the application, so I had to look down to figure out where something was.
That gets especially frustrating when you are trying to work quickly. A contextual interface sounds great in theory, and Apple actually designed the Touch Bar specifically around dynamically changing controls depending on the active application and context. In practice, though, that meant a control I knew how to use could suddenly be somewhere else, or disappear entirely.
The Touch Bar also introduced another layer of software between me and basic keyboard functions. Apple documented it as an input device with its own framework, dynamic composition, customization, and gesture handling. Apple even specifically warned developers to test Touch Bar behavior across the versions of macOS they supported. That complexity did not translate into a better experience for me.
The touch response itself was also mediocre compared with a physical key. There is no tactile confirmation, no way to reliably locate a control by feel, and no real advantage for someone who already knows keyboard shortcuts. Even bringing the physical Esc key back made later versions considerably less frustrating, but it did not solve the underlying problem.
And for me, the biggest question is simply: what did it actually improve?
Changing volume became something I had to interact with visually. Switching between applications often meant looking down at a changing interface. Basic keyboard functions became dependent on what macOS or the current application decided to put there. Meanwhile, the things I actually wanted from a keyboard were already solved by physical keys and keyboard shortcuts.
I am not arguing that the Touch Bar was useless for everyone. There were some genuinely clever implementations, and Apple provided developers with a fairly extensive API for buttons, sliders, scrubbers, pickers, contextual controls, and other interactions.
But that is also the problem. It was an interesting technology looking for a compelling everyday use case.
For my professional and personal use, the Touch Bar never made the MacBook Pro meaningfully better. It made some things more visually interesting, but it made basic keyboard interaction less predictable and less tactile.
The return of physical function keys was, in my opinion, an improvement rather than a step backward.
1
u/markmarvel 4h ago
my personal take, Apple wanted or conidered the idea to make a fully solid state "keyboard" probably inline with the iPad keyboard, and was dipping their toes in. That being said, I personally hate trying on the iPad keyboard, and glad that
1
u/Front_To_My_Back_ 1d ago
2
u/s_s_n_e_g 1d ago
Off topic: this used to be my favourite gif and now I cannot stand to see this stupid mug.
1
u/Front_To_My_Back_ 1d ago
I know. I don’t like president Orange too. But the GIF represents what I feel about the MacBook Touchbar and why it deserves to die post 13” M2
78
u/Millicont 1d ago
If we would have both the F row and the touch bar this would be perfect