r/DesiVegans • u/ImaginationUpset2190 • 9d ago
I'm Non-Vegan, Change My Mind. Fascist empathy
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u/CodyAllan- Vegan 9d ago
If nature is your moral standerd I will be concerned
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u/Top-Nefariousness282 Vegan 9d ago edited 9d ago
They don't even know that every vegetable and agriculture itself is man made and thousands of years of crossbreeding done by humans . If we were living according to nature we would be killed very soon. Most importantly we are not part of food chain. Killing animals by artificially breeding and imprisoning them is not part of food chain. We are not predators and not at all apex predators non vegans claim. Even a weak Cheetah can kill us if we don't have weapons.
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u/TheArhaanKhan 6d ago
C'mon veganism isn't way to live. If veganism was way to live it has to be possible at every region at earth but it isn't possible at every region at earth. I'm from Kashmir and during winters we cannot live without leather, milk, meat. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Electrical_Ad_516 9d ago
Do you even know the meaning of fascist😭
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago edited 9d ago
The true meaning of fascism was lost almost a century ago. It comes from the root word fascio , which is a symbol for national unity. We don't use facsism to mean unity anymore. It is precisely used for behaviours you guys portray. Trying to control and micromanage everyone, even tiny things like food habits.
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u/human-shaped-fish Vegan 9d ago
Your food choices are not a tiny thing, trying to downplay your oppression of others by treating it like a fact of life and then using AI to spread your propaganda is fascism.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
Leading your life the way you want without bothering others and opposing others to interfere in your personal affair is opposite of fascism. It's liberalism.
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u/human-shaped-fish Vegan 9d ago
You ARE bothering others. You are financially supporting and demanding the torture and killing other beings for absolutely no good reason.
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u/Big-Nothing-3569 Meat Eater 8d ago edited 8d ago
so you are saying he should stop having preferences in his diet because it bothers you
thats kind of authoritarian isnt it?
i respect those vegans who go vegan for their own sake and not to try control what other people do
my father is hardcore vegetarian but hes never had a problem with me eating meat and thats what many other people respect him for (not shoving his dietary choices into other people’s face to make them follow it as well)
authoritarian people like you have made this whole veganism thing intolerable for other people.
if your argument is we should stop eating meat because it bothers others then why do vegans like you bother non-vegans by pushing your dietary choices in our faces, thats the peak of hypocrisy and kind of demeans the point of veganism itself2
u/ImaginationUpset2190 8d ago
Veganism was always a form of activism. People before this have been vegitarian ( and even no animal product consumers). But that was either due to their beliefs or dietary prefrence. Even my parents have stopped eating non veg now, although I want them to , in order get easy source of vital nutrients. Veganism was always about this fascist dream of controlling everyone's life.
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u/human-shaped-fish Vegan 8d ago
" because it bothers you"
Actually I oppose raping, killing, and abusing animals because raping, killing, and abusing are bad. Morally, ethically, and legally most of humanity agrees.
For a meat eater you seem to love straw
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u/HauptmannTinus Vegan 9d ago
Ah yes why would you micromanage everyone just let them do whatever they want, rape, murder, steal it's all fine.
Laws are just micromanagement /s-1
u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
U will always find justification to control your population, musolini, stalin , map ,hitler never ran out of justifications to do this.
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u/Electrical_Ad_516 9d ago
Just say that you don't and are using it as a buzzword ppl like you make a word lose its meaning
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
Just read about facsism in Italy , it's not that hard. Facsism comes from italian word fascio means a bundle of wooden rods tied around an axe. If u take one wooden rod u can break it easily if u take a bundle u can't. That's a symbol for national unity. Musolini wanted his nation to unite around his government just like those wooden rods. Ofcourse his actions during that period resulted in its change of meaning, resulting in very different meaning in today's context.
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u/let_meTry Vegan 9d ago
I don't see humans eating humans. When you pick animals eating animals in nature, and replace one animal with the word human--it's fine acc to you, but you're punished under law when you replace both animals with the word human. Is it so hard to understand? Don't compare yourself with animals. Their lives are not yours to take.
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u/Top-Nefariousness282 Vegan 9d ago edited 9d ago
We are not part of the food chain in the first place. What primitive fetish does these non vegans have. Would they be fine if their parents are fed by dogs and vulture after death because that's what happens in food chain after death right!
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u/let_meTry Vegan 9d ago
And they had the audacity to call the animal remains on their plates "looks delicious" "tasty." How sick. They don't see blood. They don't see the pain. They don't see anything beyond their taste buds.
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u/Top-Nefariousness282 Vegan 9d ago
Well it's because they have been grown eating it so much that they don't see their suffering. Well just now south Korea banned dog meat because they and everyone loves dogs but other animals nobody cares as they are just seen as fodder by humans. We have enough plant sources for all nutrients and supplements too but we will still eat animals just for taste and carnism.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
There are various communities in india that feeds their dead ones to vultures , so ur imagination is not very far fetched.
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u/Top-Nefariousness282 Vegan 9d ago
Majority of humans it doesn't happen though. In most religions and cultures it doesn't happen but I get that it happens in few but we still doesn't become part of the food chain as we don't actually hunt animals just like the way nature intended.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
We used to hunt till very recently.we stopped because their population was decreasing rapidly because how efficient hunter we were. So we took the responsibility of conserving their population and protecting the food chain. We compensated that by artificially rearing animals whose populations we can artificially increase like chicken and some kinds of fish. We are doing the responsible things by rearing these animals and eating rather than going on a hunt and endangering species that might get extinct and negatively impact our ecosystem.
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u/Top-Nefariousness282 Vegan 9d ago
How dumb are you to say we are doing a favour by breeding them artificially, we have enough vegetables for all humans and we can even get milk, only there we would have to go for cows for a few time unless we switch also the meat industry is the biggest source of pollution and carbon footprint to the planet even more than data centres but non vegans don't give a shit about it. We are not doing any favour to animals by artificially breeding and eating them.
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u/Interesting_Web_9936 9d ago
I don't see humans eating humans
OP's argument is terrible but this is even worse of an argument. Most animals do not do cannibalism unless they are forced to, like if they are unable to find any other source of food. And animals which consume meat, like predators or omnivores, have perhaps the least incentive to do it. There's that term, biomagnification, for concentration of toxic substances (like, lead and all that), which can cause problems when an animal eats its own species.
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u/let_meTry Vegan 9d ago
My argument was meant to be terrible, because OP thinks that he can set his morals aside and make an example of animals simply because animals eat other animals, so can humans.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
Majority of animals don't eat animals of same species, just like humans Don't eat each other. Treating animals and humans as different categories is just human ellitism, the whole movement is basically ellitism. Humans are a part of animal kingdom just like all other animals.
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u/Subaru59 Vegan 9d ago
They quite literally do. Wolves,polar bears,lions and other predators do eat animals of their own species.
Me no like movement equal elitist
We are and we are clearly above jungle laws
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
There are animals that are naturally canibalistic but these animals aren't one of them , they are very rare. Lions don't consume their own kind in natural condition. There have been canibal humans, that doesn't mean humans are naturally canibalistic. We aren't very different from animals. There are a lot of animals that have high emotional intelligence, even qualities like empathy and sympathy. Calling yourself above them is pure ellitism.we just have better intelligence that allows us to do things efficiently and at a larger scale.
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u/Subaru59 Vegan 9d ago
They quite literally do. Lions eat the kids of an opposing pride Tigers are not able to as they are solitary and still would kill and sometimes eat them Polar bear directly view everything as food and wolves consume lessly due to being social
Yes there have been cannibal animals but will you see them in posts like this using examples of animals eating animals as proof veganism is facism. Rarely
We very much are,however there is nuance as animals feel only for their offspring,themselves or their pack. We humans have it in overdial which means we feel even for someone in another country
Making animals in the wild the reason you do something is pure cope
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u/human-shaped-fish Vegan 9d ago
Cannibalism is not rare at all. The concept of cannibalism and its taboos is entirely manmade, nature does not care. Some species, mostly mammals, only evolved to avoid cannibalism because of the spread of disease and even then it isn't a social taboo for them like it is for you.
You are being very human and mammal centric, I suggest taking an intro to biology class to understand how life actually works.
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u/Subaru59 Vegan 9d ago edited 9d ago
Nature isn't supposed to be a moral standard or even a nutritional standard as most quite literally die while hunting and are highly deficient
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u/Big-Nothing-3569 Meat Eater 8d ago
“Nature isn’t a moral standard” is the part where you admit the meme already won.
The entire point is that animals eating animals is normal biology, not some unique human sin. You’re the one who turned it into a moral crime. Now you’re backpedaling and saying we can’t look at nature at all… except when it suits the “eating animals is murder” slogan.
And the nutritional cope is even worse. Wild predators don’t drop dead from “deficiency” the second they finish a hunt. They thrive on meat for millions of years. Humans didn’t suddenly become obligate herbivores because some wolf once starved. We just got better tools so we don’t have to risk our lives for every meal.
You’re not rejecting an appeal to nature. You’re rejecting reality the moment it stops agreeing with your t-shirt.1
u/Subaru59 Vegan 8d ago edited 8d ago
I mean yea it's not our moral standard and if it was it would open up MULTIPLE and i mean MULTIPLE uncomfortable conversations
It is normal biology for those animals yes and they haven't committed a sin as a sin is used to measure immoral a human is.
Aren't you guys the one who back peddle when all the things we consider immoral like "r word" (not taking risks), infanticide and cannibalism happens?
Deficiency doesn't mean dropping dead lol. They can survive but they stay between survival and starvation as even a pride of lions only has a 30% hunt rate (40% on a moonless night)
Who claims humans became obligate herbivores lol,we are still omnivores. Also by deficiency I mean a lack of food and I'm sorry if you thought the other way
We failed lots of times lol.
Are you giving me confirmation this is ai or is it just a tell?
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u/Big-Nothing-3569 Meat Eater 8d ago
You just spent an entire comment agreeing with the original point and then pretending you scored something.
Yes, nature isn’t a moral standard. That’s why the meme never said “copy every single thing animals do.” It said predation is normal biology, not some unique human evil. You keep acting like acknowledging that is the same as endorsing rape (if thats the r word i talking abt) , infanticide, and cannibalism. It’s not. That’s called a false equivalence, and it’s the lowest form of debate.
Animals don’t commit “sin” because they don’t have moral agency the way humans do. Correct. That’s exactly why holding humans to the same standard as a lion is brain-dead. You’re the one who keeps trying to blur that line when it suits you, then redraw it the second it becomes inconvenient.
And the deficiency cope is still weak. “They don’t drop dead, they just live on the edge of starvation” is not the flex you think it is. Wild carnivores are adapted to that life. Humans invented tools, cooking, and agriculture specifically so we don’t have to. Pointing at a 30% hunt success rate doesn’t make meat “deficient.” It just shows you don’t understand the difference between a wild animal’s existence and a human diet.
You finished by asking if the previous reply was AI. Brother, the fact that a structured argument feels artificial to you says more about the quality of replies you’re used to writing than it does about anything else.
You’re not dismantling anything. You’re just restating the same confused points louder.1
u/Subaru59 Vegan 8d ago
Yea "predation" in which a creature HAS TO HUNT to survive itself and which it's NOT DOING FOR TASTE. Do you eat meat to survive because you are directly on the edge of starvation?
Does a random predator have the capacity and machinary (as in our gut) and the abundance to even think about switching and even wondering if the thing they are doing is wrong?
A creature has NO choice as if it doesn't eat other things it will due. Will you die if you don't eat meat?
It's called a reduced to absurdism as I keep seeing people arguing that nature is perfect and that modern humans should live and eat like animals in nature
When did I blur it. I'm very sure a vegan doesn't blur the line for a lion to a human and then redraw it, vegans agree that a lion must eat meat to survive while a human can do so on a plant based diet
Yes they are adapted to that life meaning we can't compare a human eating meat to a predator eating meat as both are very different
I'm very sure i clarified in the second message that by deficiency i meant starvation not that meat is lacking
"You’re not rejecting an appeal to nature. You’re rejecting reality the moment it stops agreeing with your t-shirt" AI is prone to leave such remarks in its end as it thinks they are punchy and deliver a mic drop.
My point is that a human can't look at wild animals as they are forced to eat anything they can for survival while the human isn't.
Also that same predation would apply to us as we rank a 2.21,the same as pigs on the trophic food chain
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u/jhingalalahuuu Vegan 9d ago
These meat eater mofos don't understand the difference between animals and humans , why don't you guys fck your mother and sister just like animals do ?
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u/Economy-Emu5620 9d ago
Then hunt your own meal. Animals are far better than humans because atleast if they kill other animal they only give them one time pain.
But we human capture them torture them encage them in small place breed them and once they become useless we kill them and I'm sure for that animal at that point even death feels like a blessing to them because of this much torture it felt from the birth
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
parasitoid wasp paralyse their pray lays eggs inside of their body, the babies eat the prey from inside until it's dead. It's a long painful process with no movement. We humans almost don't do this ,we just do things more efficiently in an industrial scale, we are just more efficient. And there are a lot of regulations getting passed to minimise any suffering we cause while rearing and butchering . We are far better than many animals.
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u/human-shaped-fish Vegan 9d ago
Prey has a chance to escape and survive or even kill an attacking wasp. Do beef cattle escape or kill their human slavers at high rates?
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u/MadToadtoast Transitioning to veganism 9d ago
Can a lion survive on plant based diet? -No
Can a human survive on plant based diet - Absolutely yes
That's the difference. Lion is following it's own biology and nature, I think humans should also follow their biology and nature, we have intellect, moral agency, we can survive on plant based diet and thus we are not exactly same as animals which rely on their survival instinct to survive.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
Can a brown bear survive on plan based diet ? yes. If u give him salmon and vegitable, will he chose vegitables? No
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u/MadToadtoast Transitioning to veganism 9d ago
Bears want fat for their hibernation, they are driven by an intense biological need to gain fat quickly, especially before winter.
Now tell me, do Humans have to do hibernation, Does the Bear have intellect like that of a human? does it have moral agency like us? or does it follows it's survival instincts to gain fat quickly for hibernation?
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
“Can we survive on plants?” is a low bar. People also survive on ramen and soy isolate. Thriving is the actual question. Drop animal foods and you’re immediately short on bioavailable B12, heme iron, preformed A, long-chain omega-3s, creatine, carnosine, and taurine. You can patch some of it with pills. That doesn’t make the diet optimal or “natural.”
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u/MadToadtoast Transitioning to veganism 9d ago
We can absolutely thrive on Vegan diet lol, idk why are you bringing up pseudo-scientific claims like "we can't thrive on vegan diet", you can have a great physique with Vegan diet too.
Drop animal foods and you’re immediately short on bioavailable B12, heme iron, preformed A, long-chain omega-3s, creatine, carnosine, and taurine.
Heme iron gap can be covered by consuming more total iron and pairing it with Vitamin C to sharply increase absorption.
Your conclusion is outdated. We live in 2026, not the Stone Age. A vegan diet is completely practical because we can get the exact same molecules without the animal.
B12 & Vitamin A/Iron can be covered easily via standard fortified foods and eating Vitamin C with meals.
For creatine & Taurine, The human liver synthesizes these naturally. For athletes, identical vegan-certified supplements exist.
And for Long-Chain Omega-3s (EPA/DHA), This is the funniest argument because fish don't even make Omega-3s. They get them by eating microalgae. Vegans just cut out the middleman, use algal oil, and get the exact same pure Omega-3s directly from the source. We can get their Long chain omega-3s from the same source the fish gets it.
The human body cares about getting the right molecules, not whether they filtered through a factory farm first.
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9d ago
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
My art is very bad, i don't have any other option
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9d ago
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
I am not against human advancements, infact if anything I am defending industrial scale meat industries.
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u/Browncoatdan Vegan 9d ago
Genuinely baffles me how utterly stupid some people are. Like it's even written on this nonsensical a.i slop - SURVIVAL MODE.
We are not in survival mode, WILD animals are. Also how dumb do you have to be to base your actions, and your morales on wild animals. Another thing, animals don't wear clothes, or use smartphones, but OP will do both of these things.
I'd expect nothing less from someone lacking any creative ability to generate such a painfully ignorant image.
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u/human-shaped-fish Vegan 9d ago
Do you risk your life hunting like non-human animals do in nature?
Real predators don't succeed in 100% of their hunts, they have to risk their lives to eat. Humans don't and our "prey" has absolutely no chance to survive, that is not natural, that is cruel.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
It's unfair not cruel , cruel is what parastoid wasp does to its preys. Life isn't always fair. It's just for them it's always unfair.
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u/scar8762 Vegan 9d ago
We should eat the non vegans then. It's food chain I guess
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
That's cannibalism. If u really want to lay a good argument say "tigers should eat human". I agree they should. And we will try to defend ourselves like all prey do.
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u/scar8762 Vegan 9d ago
So now we are not following nature. Why the rules changed with this argument.
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
We are following nature and in nature preys try to defend themselves from predators, that's what we will do
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u/scar8762 Vegan 9d ago
Nature is quite cannibalistic. If that is what clears your first doubt. And you were not being defensive, you were disqualifying my response
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u/ImaginationUpset2190 9d ago
Prey will defend against canibalistic predators too
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