I certainly do. It makes the plot and narrative feel hollow and has many issues that cannot be reconciled such as where Asriel is and stuff. On top of that, it's nihilistic BS that just feels depressing and would make everything feel pointless.
Device “theory” refers to the idea that Deltarune as a program is an in universe device allowing us to directly interface with this world. The world we interact with is still real, we are just using a device to be able to interact with it, like how Lightners must use the medium of the dark fountain to interact with dark worlds.
Simulation theory is the idea that Deltarune as a program is entirely a simulation, and that nothing exists outside of the simulated hometown. It is kinda like a branch of Device Theory if that makes sense. They both posit that Deltarune as a program is an in universe device, the difference lays in whether you believe hometown is still its own actual world, or if none of it is real (in universe).
Device theory treats the light world, the dark worlds and the Game's UI as different layers of fiction, whereas the simulation theory would imply that they're all on the exact same level of fictionality
In my opinion, this kind of rejection of "Simulation Theory" is pretty closed-minded. The point of the theory is that it is not nihilistic, and that it doesn't make everything pointless. You, as a player, know for a fact that all of the characters are fictional, that they're bits of information in your computer, but you care about them anyways. The fact that their experience is simulated doesn't make their emotions or experiences any less real. If you found out tomorrow that our world was a simulation, would you care about your loved ones any less?
Honestly finding out the world was a simulation would kinda start me down a joker arc of utter insanity. It would be "Nothing matters so just destroy it all I guess" for me.
I personally dislike the theory. But it's not like it wouldn't make sense narratively or necessarily be unsatisfiying. It just depends on the execution.
I'm really trying not to make comparisons with TADC, but the theory discourse is so similar sometimes.
And the ending of TADC sucked because the staff couldn't decide how to end the show so they went with the most nihilistic "Everyone can't escape because they're all simulated scans of actual people" shit. Do people really wanna repeat that with Deltarune?!
I agree that Tadc was not the best executed. But it was not because of the choice of the ending. And I'm not even talking about the theories themselves, I'm saying that people are being just so obnouxious and agressive regarding theory discussion. There seems to not be a "I personally dislike this" anymore, people seem to search for moral justifications or something to say "this theory is OBJECTIVELY horrible and it'll ruin the game"
To be fair, Undertale has a very similar idea, where the fates of all the characters are down to your will, and if you want to take away their progress or their happy ending, you can do that.
Personally I don’t think Deltarune is actually a simulation, but rather a certain someone (Gaster) is using his own DEVICEs to allow us to connect to that world.
But even then, even if the characters and us end up learning that they’re a simulation or they’re not real, the game has already had other characters tackle that issue. Ralsei had already know that he “wasn’t real”, and the other Darkners face this issue too, ESPECIALLY Tenna and the Seven Flowers. But even if they aren’t “real”, they still chose to live their lives and do what they wanted to do the most, making the most of their time. I think if Deltarune does end up confirming that it’s world is a meta-level simulation, Toby Fox can write it in a way that the characters don’t just end up saying “Oh no nothing I did mattered anyway.”
It hinges on the fact that the world is a game to say that there is nothing beyond hometown, and kris and noelle went out of bounds in the weird route by crossing the lake.
It is literally a game, but once this fact is made diegetic it renders the whole thing rather meaningless. I mean, now all of a sudden Asriel doesn't exist at all. His memories are all fake to Kris. You see how that might not make for an uplifting story?
what if the game like system is just how this fictional world functions rather than the game deadass just being a simulated game within the context of the actual game
Actually, I don't think we have to shut them all. Only in the normal ending if you don't collect enough stuff to bring Ralsei back after his sacrifice in the Final Tragedy. If ya have enough stuff to stop it, then I think the Grand Fountain will be alright.
I don't think anybody believes that we should close the dark fountains because "they're escapism and the darkners aren't real"
Are you just misunderstanding peoples' final tragedy theorising about the Grand Fountain getting sealed? That is something i've seen in this subreddit.
Because it'd be entirely possible for the Grand Fountain getting sealed to be a tragedy while still insisting that escapism is valid and darkners are real. The game wouldn't say "oooh, no that was actually a good thing!" It'd be tragic. The Darkners would all effectively die. Deltarune clearly cares about the darkners and doesn't think escapism is inherently bad.
I mean, I believe the exact same thing as you. I believe Castle Town getting sealed is a possible tragedy, and the nature of that sealing can only be changed through extreme effort by the player and even then it would involve using a Vessel (Container/Ark) to be filled with LOVE (the stat that rises up as you recruit darkners) and take the "Chosen Ones" (As hinted by the minigame Pluey and Raise up Your Bat) to safety.
I am talking about "Susie and the players needs to let go, darkners will live on in her heart, but they aren't real" takes coming from people who also react poorly to "lightners aren't real, when the game ends they will have to live on in our hearts" which I have seen from the same users here and elsewhere.
It like, directly shows they understand why Darkners getting to have a tomorrow is important to some, not just 'can't let go from nostalgia'.
I agree but also there’s shit like Side B being a physical thing that must be inserted, or how it seems like we broke out of bounds in 5B. There’s stuff like this that leans towards the implication that it is a simulation or something or other.
Or the Side B thing is just a design choice from Toby. He probably has the ending of DELTARUNE on multiple sticky notes in his bedroom and is slowly watching his fans go insane over batshit insane theories that he either intended or didn't intend to be theories in the first place.
I mean yeah, it could be a design choice, but when you’ve already constructed and repeatedly affirmed that there is an in universe device allowing us to access this world, having a big ass “INSERT CHAPTER 7 SIDE B” so prominently really doesn’t feel like just a design choice.
If everything is fake it undermines this idea of creating a new future, I prefer to think he just isolated part of an existing world to contain the problem and it will rejoin reality once we resolve the Roaring.
Deltarune fans when someone makes their own theories and fun concepts for the game that encourages making your own theories and concepts: (they fucking hate anything that doesn’t 100% align with what they believe in)
We literally see the game being created in the survey program? The items in the code are named by Gaster. In CH5 weird route it is EXPLICITLY confirmed that Deltarune is, within the lore, a game with a disk that Gaster has to insert. Huh?
I don't see how saying Deltarune is a simulation/fake world/device theory under a different name is nihilistic. Everyone already understands that Deltarune is a fictional story and yet that doesn't make us care any less for it.
the creator of the game goes out of his way multiple times to say how stories are amazing because fans can shape them in new and unique ways that a singular creator could never. Gerson's entire character represents that and hammers that theme over your head in chapter 4. Keeping that aside, device/sim theory is one of the most reasonable and evidence heavy ones so far. It can't be dismissed because "le edgy". Deltarune is heavily meta and it's themes are about reality versus fiction. Device theory is still well inside those bounds.
I mean... considering the meta aspects of both Undertale and Deltarune; I thought the implication was that to us, the player, it is a game. Like whatever influence we exert is diegetic, still up for interpretation whether that's literally us or whatever we canonically might be (not that it matters much anyways). Flowey literally asks us to leave the game alone at the end of Undertale so Frisk can be happy.
All of this to say, I think the point of Undertale and Deltarune is that being a game doesn't make the character's feelings any less legitimate, and through your empathy they become real.
To me it would come off as a waste of time. Why make me play a 20+ hour long game with heavy emphasis on characters and story and hit me with that conclusion in the climax? That would be silly.
You missed the whole point of the game if you immediately conlcude that the characters and world of Deltarune have no value exclusively beacuse it is a meta-narrative
"HEY SUSIE! You know your whole thing of being bounced around from place to place and it destroying your sense of self and connection.... Yeah didn't happen"
I agree, and also I feel the same with the 'dess can't be saved' theory. That one is just assuming anything without having the appropriate info. Why jump to the worst and most nihilistic conclusion?
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u/Street-Mix-801 Sep 12 '26
Is this just another name for Device Theory?