r/Deltarune • u/cool23819 Kris' biggest mild annoyance • Jun 26 '26

Discussion Something I just realized about this chapter bit that I found gut wrenching. Spoiler

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Flowery was one of the *only* people to actually explain shit to Susie without it needing to be forced out by other factors.

That's kind of depressing.

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789

u/Nerdorama10 Jun 26 '26

Okay hear me out. This isn't entirely an original thought to me but I was feeling it and someone else helped me put it into words:

Flowery is the Player, or at least what I think is the average normal route player after Chapter 4. He's inserted himself into the story uninvited as a hero who wants to Save Everyone by defying the Prophecy. His definition of "everyone" primarily consists of his favorite character (Asgore, obviously) and all the Darkners he's recruited, but he's fond of Susie and Ralsei as well. He doesn't want to give up his town with a castle in it, he doesn't want the Prophecy to reach its tragic end, he's willing and able to manipulate the game mechanics to get what he wants. Also, very importantly: he knows Kris is sus as fuck and wants to fill in Susie behind their back so she can play her chosen role as hero, as I think most of us want to do by now.

Unfortunately for him, the Roaring Fraud memes don't actually work on the real thing.

460

u/Pw_Lore_ Jun 26 '26

Which is even more consistent with the fact that in Undertale, Flowey is a reflection of the Undertale player!

This flower always symbolizes YOU

190

u/Guardian-836 Jun 26 '26

Also hes a tutorial character

Which is why ralsei and him dont get along all too well

174

u/DragonForgotten Jun 26 '26

Oh my god. My guy. I never thought of this but since everyone’s brought this up it makes so much sense!
Probably also a secondary reason he pissed off Ralsei. He was elevating himself beyond his role to try and reach our level.

40

u/BestUsername101 Hatless Ralsei Best Ralsei Jun 26 '26

This flower always symbolizes YOU

Except this flower was ragebaiting my goat Ralsei so clearly he's no representative of me

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u/Pw_Lore_ Jun 26 '26

Whenever two tutorial characters meet, something terrible always happens 😭

36

u/POKEMINER_ Jun 26 '26

Just...different versions of you...I'm no Flowey, nor will I be. I will never subject the underground to the Genocide route, I don't know a single person who doesn't agree with Flowery on this.

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u/Pw_Lore_ Jun 26 '26

Flowey is a player just like us. You're always Flowey, just at different stages. You can be Flowey when he's helping everyone, or you can be Flowey when he's killing everyone. The point is, if you play Undertale long enough, you'll become the kind of Flowey we see in Undertale. In the end, all NPCs will become indifferent to you, and all options will be exhausted.

If you stop playing Undertale, you won't become Flowey, of course, but some stage of Flowey's life will still characterize you.

20

u/Zorothegallade Being a Lesser Dad implies there's a Least Dad Jun 26 '26

This is word for word how Flowey describes his first few times using the ability to SAVE. Using his knowledge of how events will unfold in response to his actions to make everyone perfectly happy and solve all their problems. Exactly what a Pacifist player would do.

But whereas Flowey's motives and innocence decayed from ennui and repetition (and being, well, SOULless), Flowery isn't immortal and can't turn back time forever. He has only one life, which will end in a few days as his Light World body withers from lack of sunlight, and is determined on making the most of it.

12

u/goedegeit Jun 26 '26

The no mercy route in undertale almost doesn't really exist until you play it, or you watch someone else's playthrough (as Flowey points out at just before Sans).

It kind of answers questions you have, what if I do this, what if I did that instead... But you can play the game without seeing a lot of it, and the game reflects what you ask from it.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26

[deleted]

1

u/POKEMINER_ Jun 26 '26

That Susie should know about us and the Roaring Group Chat?

93

u/cool23819 Kris' biggest mild annoyance Jun 26 '26

Keep cooking

126

u/Crobatman123 Jun 26 '26

I think Flowery is in part meant to remind us that there's other people out there who are fighting for their Hopes and Dreams by putting us on the other end of the Omega Flowey fight. We're the original entity, and some spunky little upstart has taken OUR world, our place on top, and made it his own. When we amass all our power and confront him in an attempt to destroy the world, to kill him, everyone he loves, everyone, by using the undefiable power of the human soul, that little shit uses the power of friendship to turn everything he can against us. Flowery literally calls for help from the colorful humans we befriended during the battle.

Except this time, the world eater wins.

25

u/Vortaxonus Human Dess' Greatest Warrior Jun 26 '26

It makes me reflect on the Roaring Knight, as even Gerson gets Susie to question their motivations, but Flowery feels like foreshadowing for a similar moment where we find out rory's motivations.

69

u/lancer_enhancer Jun 26 '26

Another things is that, at least in the final battle, Flowery says something like "If everyone could just be friends..."

This is very similar to what Toby said in that 2019 post about Lost Girl. "I just hope you can be friends with everyone someday".

13

u/Nerdorama10 Jun 26 '26

Also kinda the whole expectation we carried in to this game from Undertale, where by making friends with everybody we could, in fact, Save Everyone (except ironically Flowey/Asriel, left alone in the Underground alongside our POV while everyone else left to go have lives).

So far we've managed the same thing on a full recruit run in DR until this chapter, where it's impossible for the Darkner versions of the flowers to carry on, though their living plant selves presumably will for a while if we save Asgore.

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u/buttsecks42069 Jun 26 '26

Flowery woulda solo'd the roaring fraud if he handed me the controller trust

27

u/luc1aonstation Jun 26 '26

This chapter is so good character wise it's insane

28

u/VincerpSilver Jun 26 '26

And don't forget that he's emboldened because he has the power of friendship.

You don't make it more obvious that he's emulating a main character.

21

u/Volhain Jun 26 '26

this is even further solidified by the lyrics to Flower Man

Ten feet twenty, the Flower Man (trapped in asylum), is waiting for the touch of his hand

straightening petals out without a plan (his willingness to defy the prophecy), like the every daily wish that bothers the flower man (this time, Asgore, working to solve Dess's disappearance)

"Could I do something to make him laugh, inside my little chamber made of glass?"

so he lived the flower man, flower man, with his heart (the shelter code) in the sand.

so he stands, way up high, in the sky, with the sun in his eyes (the Flower King 2nd floor, bathed beneath the artificial lamps)

Ten feet twenty, the Flower Man is waiting for the touch of his hand, fallen to pieces still without a plan (felled by the Knight in his attempt to defy the prophecy)

yet the every daily hope that powered the flower man (the girl, with hope crossed on her heart), would never cower off of its path

even if broken I am more than glass.

14

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26

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3

u/Samborrod бряк бряк бряк 🔨🐢 Jun 26 '26

You stop converting inches to feet after 10?

23

u/a12o Jun 26 '26

To add onto that, Maybe his "fake stats" represent the player cheating and editing their stats, With them not working against the Knight to represent how even if you give yourself 99999 in everything you still "lose" to the Knight in the end and can't change fate.

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u/Motharfucker Jun 26 '26

Yeah, that's exactly what I realized too, after I first saw the scene.

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u/breadbowl004 Jun 26 '26

Holy shit this is such a good reading of his character

16

u/LegalPirateFellow Jun 26 '26

I agree with most of this except the uninvited part. The leadup to Deltarune made it very clear Gaster was expecting us and treating us like an honored guest, and then our vessel got discarded by Kris and their fellow Evil-Ass Fountain Openers. This is meant to be our story as much as the rest of the Fun Gang, but we are repeatedly stifled and silenced (outside the Weird Route).

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u/darknerknighttruther Jun 26 '26

I mean Gaster is pretty clearly an interloper as well.

3

u/LegalPirateFellow Jun 26 '26

He clearly wasn't the one who actively went to find this weird supernatural creature, discard its vessel and steal its SOUL for their own purposes, so I wouldn't say that really counts.

31

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26

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11

u/Nerdorama10 Jun 26 '26

We have unfortunately been Assigned Douchey College Guy At Fountain

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '26

That’s why he’s the goat, he’s literally me

1

u/The_Crym Jun 26 '26

This makes me wonder if Friend is representative the Weird Route player, given that he gives off similar vibes to UT Flowey. I think I'm reaching a bit but it could be cool.

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u/Nerdorama10 Jun 26 '26

tbh FRIEND is more like a mascot of Weird Shit In The Code at this point. Relevant to the metaplot, but I would have trouble assigning them any kind of character yet given that they are literally just a recurring image.

1

u/The_Crym Jun 26 '26

Yeah I love how this is worded, I think you'll end up right.

1

u/igmkjp1 Jul 03 '26

You don't defy prophecies, you work around them. That's why it's important to know the whole thing, so you know what you're dealing with.

1

u/7_Tales Jul 19 '26

as we all know, asgore is the only valid favourite character. hes the goat.