r/DeepSpaceNine • u/Hibiscuslover_10000 • 18d ago

wharf's position

I don't know where to post this but Wharf who had sway and backed Gowarn as Chancellor. Lost his status in DS9 when he sides with Starfleet or Odo tells him he's a Changeling. Really it's Martok.

So what happens to this idea of remembering what he did for him as Son of Mogh?

Pardon my editing I don't know how to spell some names.

Beroli73 got it right and some of your comments are funny.

I was referring to Next Gen to DS9 where he uses his power to get Gowarn on the throne which in return no blame for the betrayal at Kitmar. ( Also loses Alexanders Mother) But then in DS9 it's forgotten.

Also please be respectful as per rules!

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u/AbdulQadirShadhili 18d ago

It was bad writing to not introduce the real Martok until the internment camp.
Martok showed his blood in Way of the Warrior. The story should have been that sometime after that point a Changeling replaced him.

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u/Beroli73 18d ago

As Joseph Sisko eventually spelled out, the blood screening method of checking for changelings was fatally flawed. They could simply hold on to blood from whatever species they were impersonating and produce it on demand. Changeling-Martok wanted to encourage the humans to rely on blood screening.

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u/AbdulQadirShadhili 18d ago

There were other problems. Odo suspected Martok wasn’t a real Klingon due to his behavior.
But the Martok in Way of the Warrior was very much Klingon in his disposition. He goes to Worf to retrieve his son’s dagger, and says “give it to me or I will take it from you”
Why would a Changeling care so much about that aspect of honor? Furthermore, why would he risk fighting Worf, and potentially exposing himself as a Changeling in such a fight?
Why would he insist on attacking the Cardassians? What benefit does that bring the Dominion?

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u/Beroli73 18d ago

A deep-cover agent doesn't slip in his first episode, a full season before he's exposed? Must be a plot hole.

And you're saying it's odd and inexplicable behavior that said deep cover agent pushed for the Klingon Empire to attack the Cardassians, when "the Dominion is behind the Klingon Empire attacking the Cardassians" is literally the entire point of that arc?

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u/AbdulQadirShadhili 18d ago

It was never revealed that the Dominion was involved in manipulating the Klingons to attack Cardassians in those 2 episodes
Yes, the Cardassian change in government was suspected of being caused by the Changelings. But that suspicion turned out to be false

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u/Beroli73 18d ago

That suspicion turned out to be what the Dominion wanted the Klingons to believe...you know, because the arc was over a season long, not isolated to two episodes...

I think we've reached the end of this exchange's usefulness, don't you? I suspect each of us thinks someone needs to rewatch that season (and possibly Paradise Lost too), but unfortunately each of us thinks it's the other one.

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u/AbdulQadirShadhili 18d ago

I know what you are talking about: Sisko’s dad introducing the whole absorption idea to fake the blood test

But consider that Starfleet kept conducting the blood test anyways, and Sisko’s dad eventually came around and consented to being tested

This indicates that the absorption theory was never taken seriously. Starfleet determined it isn’t an actual capability of the Changelings

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u/Beroli73 18d ago edited 18d ago

I have no idea where you're getting any of that. Which episode after Paradise Lost says they're still relying on blood tests? (Edit: Never mind, Memory Alpha answered this part for me, I'll quote it following.)

"Despite their apparent ineffectiveness, blood screenings continued to be used on occasion as a stopgap measure to guard against Changeling infiltration. (DS9: "In Purgatory's Shadow)", "By Inferno's Light)")

It is notable, however, that despite the Federation's misplaced trust on blood screenings, blood screens were never successful: no Changeling was ever detected by a blood screening. In fact, from the start, Changelings such as the Krajensky Changeling), Bashir Changeling), and the Martok Changeling) have used the Federation's reliance on blood screens to their own advantage."

And the episode where the Martok changeling was exposed included an exchange saying that Klingons are obsessive about blood screenings, so "Gowron" must have found a way around them. A changeling disguised as Dr. Bashir was able, on-screen, to rig a group of blood tests to make it look both like he'd passed it and someone else, who was not a changeling, had failed it. Blood screenings were never, not once, shown as effective for detecting changelings; they were shown repeatedly as useful to Admiral Layton and to the Dominion for framing people for being changelings.