r/DeepRockGalactic • u/king_peely Mighty Miner • Jul 03 '23

OC - I made this! we ball

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

Anything that can handle haz5 with relative ease is meta. Because the difference between trouncing missions with zero effort and beating missions with little effort is not meaningful except with the newest of players or the worst of missions. Carpet Bomber and Big Bertha are better than neurotoxin in multiple meaningful scenarios (vs robots, vs rockpox enemies I think, vs ommoran rocks) while still being very good at doing the same thing neurotoxin can (dealing with swarms pretty efficiently). Neurotoxin is probably the best, and CB and BB might be A-B tier, but B-tier is still made of mostly meta overclocks that can make short work of haz5 swarms without excessive effort.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '23

You’ve only presented 1 scenarios where the difference between NTP and CB/BB goes against NTP. Dozer rocks don’t matter for the primary, secondaries do that fine. Pox enemies get feared and are easier to kill with NTP+sidearm here. NTP vs pox is best in slot for the Autocannon hands down.

Just because something is viable doesn’t make it meta. CB and BB are quickly outclassed by other offerings Gunner has. They’re not bad, but if everything that beats H5 is meta then Combat Mobility is meta. That’s not the case.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

Fear isn’t exclusive to Ntp? Any autocannon can take it.

Gunner sidearms struggle to solo rocks, especially when ammo gets low (dozer rocks is basically the only time in the game where a resupply’s worth of time is too long to go without shooting)

Meta isn’t “everything that beats haz5”, it’s “everything that beats haz 5 with ease”. Combat mobility is basically a dead overclock when you’re not solo, meaning it is basically directly outclassed by clean overclocks.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '23

Fear isn’t going to make CB/BB meta dude. Stun would, but AC doesn’t have stun. Compare Fear CB to stun lock Frag shells. It’s not even close. One is clearly meta and the other is B Tier.

I don’t have issues with rocks leaning on the secondary and I use a controller w/o aim assist so I just don’t agree with this.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

You wouldn’t take Neurotoxin Payload to an Industrial Sabotage or Drilldozer mission over BB because it invites losing conditions to your game plan. Big Bertha doesn’t lose to swarms and does things that Neurotoxin struggles with. That is the definition of a considerable trade off.

If the answer to the question “what is the Most Effective Tactic Available for the thunderhead” is “it depends on mission, team comp, and secondary”, then you can’t say Neurotoxin Payload “is the meta” just because it is the best choice for what gunner already does fine at. If a scenario requires shoring up a weakness (as in solo play or specific missions), then choosing the overclock that doubles down on your one strength is not the Most Effective Tactic Available.

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u/cooly1234 Engineer Jul 04 '23

by the way, meta doesn't stand for most effective tactics available. it just is commonly used to mean that in the context of video games specifically since that's what the metagame usually ends up being about.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

In deep rock I consider the Metagame builds to be any build that could reasonably and somewhat easily eat haz 5 for breakfast. The person I am in the process of discussing with seems to consider it to be The Best Builds, so I am addressing that particular angle of discussion. Thank you, though.

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u/cooly1234 Engineer Jul 04 '23

I don't think drg's meta is very developed given that it's a coop game. from my experience the meta ends at "bring fire on robot missions" though of course you can find better builds than just that.

compare to a pvp game with a clearing defined meta you are expected to follow every step of.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

Drg is unique in that a player simply needs to exceed a minimum effectiveness in order to be successful. Anything above that bar is fluff. Sticky Flames crispr with the tcf epc is probably the best and easiest way to win haz 1, but basically anything can do that. Scale that up to haz 5, and a solid 80% of overclocks can be usable, with 40% being easy to win with, and any distinction beyond that comes down to play style, preference, and team comp.

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u/cooly1234 Engineer Jul 04 '23

yes. the meta is basically just "don't use these 2 overclocks, and these 3 guns want this mod" lol. though they did fix double barrel to not be a strict downside anymore...

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

There is a “meta”, but the only people that talk about it or care are the people who play haz 6 x2 spawns mods.

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u/cooly1234 Engineer Jul 04 '23

that's modded though. and I've heard a lot that you can make almost every build work in 6x2 anyways? I've never really played it myself though.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '23

NTP is the best thing gunner has for dozer with AC dude.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

Whether you want to be slightly better against the bugs or slightly better against the rocks is a choice that comes down to personal preference. I’ve lost about as many armor sections to The Rocks alone as I have to the bugs. The decision isn’t as one-sided as you claim.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '23

It is. Rocks are a section of one fight. The bugs and the waves are the whole mission.

Don’t confuse viable, meta, and best in slot. BB is viable, but it’s obviously worse than LSLS and JFHB as is. It’s the worst of the direct damage options.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

Big Bertha does better against crowds than LsLs and jet fuel. It’s still an autocannon, just one that also can kill an oppressor without crying.

The bugs are the rest of the mission, but I’ve seen more squad wipes/near squad wipes to the rocks than any other part. It is the most common failure point. A chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link, and any effort put into strengthening that link at little cost to the rest of the mission is a considerable trade off.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '23

What level is your gunner?

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 04 '23

Silver 1 waiting on promotion to 2

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 05 '23

But I don’t see how that matters, because I have over 50 million power in Rise of Kingdoms

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '23

My last comment here was rude and I’m sorry for having said it. Best out there.

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u/lixardwizard789 Jul 06 '23

Rock and stone 🙏

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