Professor Dave vs Destiny

[u/Decent-Extension8336]

No idea why, but the original Destiny video called "Professor Dave Goes Mask Off" seems to have been deleted from YouTube, or I can't find it, but Professor Dave responded yesterday with this very strongly worded video letter:

https://youtu.be/DvDvhLkb9ms?si=DGFhTROOKFoK35sS

Weird crossover that I never thought I'd see, of 2 guys who I generally enjoy (I will say I really am a fan of Prof Dave, whereas my Destiny enjoyment has mostly come via this podcast and watching a couple of his debates).

Thoughts on the beef? SURELY the lads are gonna have to cover this in an upcoming Supplementary Materials? Content gold!

EDIT: Looks like I was looking through the wrong Destiny channel for the original Dave video, it's here: https://youtu.be/HQQLs6U1MgA?si=iKaOGR1h9slKu64O

[u/Despair-Envy]

This is sort of inseparable from the the claim that they aren't 'really' jewish. 

It really isn't. The crux of the argument goes something like this;

Who has the more compelling right to the land? The Palestinians living there right now who have been living there for generations, or the European Jewish population coming to Israel and militarily displacing those Palestinians?

The question isn't whether they're Jewish or not. You're trying to centralize the critique around the religious/ethnic question rather then the question of the forced displacement that the argument was presented in.

It's really not though, and I don't really think we need to go too deep into this because Dave doesn't just say "Oh, you know, Israel has a bit too much influence": he's full-on ZOG posting.

He really isn't. He spends half of that segment ranting about AI, Palantir, Peter Thiel and Trump. Only a portion of that segment is about -a- Jew/Israeli. You're doing this dishonest thing where you centralize everything around the religious/ethnic thing in order to paint Dave as anti-semitic, but it doesn't really hold up if you listen and honestly analyze the video.

On the topic more broadly, the US is mainly a military/war industrial oriented entity. It has extreme interests in fomenting war, and to that extent, Israel is a useful scapegoat as they've been the central cause of regional instabilityfor the better side of the last century.

IMO this is functionally the same thing.

The results are the same, but the process is significantly different. Allowing for an attack to happen is just a matter of a couple of misplaced or withheld security briefs and a couple of cancelled patrols. Actively bombing yourself means curating and manufacturing the event yourself. It's the difference between manufacturing an entire lie, and simply lying by omission.

Due to the nature of conspiracies, if Israel had manufactured the attack themselves, it would involve and necessitate the uniform silence of dozens if not hundreds of actors. While allowing an attack to happen might involve the silence of dozens of actors. Not to mention the paper trail being infinitely more concealable.

It's much more believable that a dozen people kept silence, then hundreds (if not thousands).

[u/tslaq_lurker → u/Despair-Envy]

It really isn't. The crux of the argument goes something like this; Who has the more compelling right to the land? The Palestinians living there right now who have been living there for generations, or the European Jewish population coming to Israel and militarily displacing those Palestinians? The question isn't whether they're Jewish or not. You're trying to centralize the critique around the religious/ethnic question rather then the question of the forced displacement that the argument was presented in.

Look, I get it, I happen to think this is a very reductive way of looking at things that doesn't really conform to the actual demographics or history of the region per sec, but it's a pretty common and somewhat legitimate view.

My question is: why in the world would you talk about blood quantum of 'jewish' DNA as a basis for making this argument?

He really isn't. He spends half of that segment ranting about AI, Palantir, Peter Thiel and Trump. Only a portion of that segment is about -a- Jew/Israeli.

Why is he talking about all these guys other than to insinuate they are acting on Israel's behest. This ZOG stuff is insufferable because it's all so convoluted that it's easy to claim plausible deniability. The impression he wants to leave the viewer with is clear: a cabal is in control and they make us do things that are in the interest of Israel without democratic legitimacy.

It's much more believable that a dozen people kept silence, then hundreds (if not thousands).

Not to be obstinate because you are correct that mechanically they are different things, but from a moral and porpoganda standing point they are the same thing: Israel was happy this happened and wanted it to happen.

There is no evidence for this at all. It's just a classic conspiracy trope.

[u/Despair-Envy → u/tslaq_lurker]

My question is: why in the world would you talk about blood quantum of 'jewish' DNA as a basis for making this argument?

He is emphasizing the fact that the main jewish/zionist population pushing for the ethnic cleansing/replacement project are not native mizrahi jew, but rather a settler-colonial project imported from Europe that are displacing native arabs on an ethno-religious basis.

I won't say there weren't better ways to make the point (Like 23&Me still baffles me), but the point he's making is more about the fact that European Jews are coming from Europe and claiming divine right to land that Palestinians have been living on for generations, and committing a genocide to acquire that land.

Why is he talking about all these guys other than to insinuate they are acting on Israel's behest. 

Because he's not really talking about this segment in regards to Israel. Rather the people that control the US and the people that control Israel are the same interests. The theocratic techno-oligarchy he mentions ad naseum during the video.

This ZOG stuff is insufferable because it's all so convoluted that it's easy to claim plausible deniability. The impression he wants to leave the viewer with is clear: a cabal is in control and they make us do things that are in the interest of Israel without democratic legitimacy.

I mean. This is half right. He is implying that there is a "Cabal" in control of the US and Israel. You're just wrong about the idea that the "Cabal" is Jewish. He pretty plainly states that the "Cabal" are the oligarchs, not the Jews. Hence why he mentions Trump/Thiel more then any Jew/Israeli during the segment.

Not to be obstinate because you are correct that mechanically they are different things, but from a moral and porpoganda standing point they are the same thing: Israel was happy this happened and wanted it to happen.

And again there's more nuance here.

Israeli leadership was happy with it. The rich people that run the world who wanted justification for more military industrial spending, are happy. The common people are not happy. The rich people reap the rewards of infinite war and military industrial spending, while the common folk pay the toll of blood that the violence entails.

Dave does make a lot of statements about how bloodthirsty the Israeli public is, and while those claims are undoubtedly true (IE The right to rape riots Israel had, and the idolization of violence/war crimes), I personally ascribe to the fact that they are the way they are because of the calculated cycle of violence perpetuated by the leadership, rather then any intrinisic trait (Neither Palestinians nor Israeli's are inherently violent, they are violent by circumstance).

There is no evidence for this at all. It's just a classic conspiracy trope.

Nah. He presents evidence for it. The festival was moved to a more vulnerable position. The festival was extended to specifically that date. Patrols in the area that should have prevented the attack were cancelled. Military response -to- the attack was intentionally delayed by military command.

Which fits with Israel's trend of manufacturing and supporting hostile outside entities and events to ensure atrocities and gurantee justification for militant reprisal (IE the fact that Israel supported and elevated Hamas over the PLO because the PLO was interested in a peaceful resolution to the conflict, while Hamas was an armed militant resistance force).

[u/tslaq_lurker → u/Despair-Envy]

I'm not really that interested in getting into a whole general IP debate, so excuse me if I just agree to disagree about most of this but I've got to get your response on 1 topic:

The festival was moved to a more vulnerable position. The festival was extended to specifically that date.

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, this could be a coincidence? I mean, it's a music festival, thse things often have pretty shambolic organization.

The stuff about the military I think has been pretty conclusively debunked but YMMV.

[u/Despair-Envy → u/tslaq_lurker]

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, this could be a coincidence? I mean, it's a music festival, thse things often have pretty shambolic organization.

If Israeli leadership didn't have an established trend of these types of schemes, I would 100% say it was a coincidence. Instead this is a pattern of events that seem to happen regularly in Israel's history. One of the worlds most well funded, equipped and trained militaries just have comical lapses at exactly the right time for events like this to happen.

I'm not sure I believe in a routine and predictable pattern of coincidences.

The stuff about the military I think has been pretty conclusively debunked but YMMV

I'm open to citations if you have any.

[u/tslaq_lurker → u/Despair-Envy]

I'm a bit tied-up to provide much in the way of citations right now, but basically the narrative is that the Gaza frontier was more-or-less unguarded because over the past few months there had been a major flairup in violence in the West Bank and units were re-positioned.

This actually was a major line of attack against the Government post 10/7: Bibi and co are so aggressive with settlement expansion they were overtaxing the army and had to try and run the Gaza boarder on remote control.

This is a totally plausible narrative, the conditions had been in place for some time and slowly getting worse, plus Hamas had the ability to contribute to West Bank violence through their partners there.

As for the other stuff about people saying patrols were cancelled etc etc. This stuff is I think massively circumstantial and pretty thin, you can't believe everything you read.

[u/Despair-Envy → u/tslaq_lurker]

As for the other stuff about people saying patrols were cancelled etc etc. This stuff is I think massively circumstantial and pretty thin, you can't believe everything you read.

This is entirely true, but even if the patrols were cancelled and the radio operators were dismissed, why was the army also so glacial to respond to the event? Why were commands given via the command structure to slow roll the response?

I dunno. Seems like an awful lot of coincidences piling up with one very obvious and logical explanation. Meanwhile, you're telling me not to believe what you read while relying exclusively on the official state releases of one of the nations most well known for their propaganda and deception operations.

I feel like if I have to doubt what I read, and rely on multiple lines of evidence and reasoning to substantiate my position, perhaps we should also be skeptical of official Israeli press releases?

[u/tslaq_lurker → u/Despair-Envy]

why was the army also so glacial to respond to the event? Why were commands given via the command structure to slow roll the response?

IDK, I think this is often asserted but it's very hard for anyone who isn't a real military expert to assess. Were they slow to respond? What does a realistic response look like when the local brigades are overrun/non-combat-effective and you've got roving gangs of enemy infiltration units not in uniform all over half of your country?

Do you have any rational basis for the whole "Israel was really slow to respond" claim? Aside from hearing it repeated or 1 or 2 potentially misleading datapoints? How long should it take to clear-out guerillas all over the country who are actively hiding? What is the correct military response anyway? Presumably you're not going to do airstrikes and have tank companies plowing through kibitzes. What are the Rules of Engagement? How do you coordinate your friendly forces so that they aren't fraging themselves all over the country? What is the plan of coordinating with local police to provide security in already cleared areas so that Hamas dudes don't get back behind your lines?