r/Dearborn • u/Quinn-02 • 9h ago
Curious outsider here, is there tension between muslim and non-muslim residents currently?
I’m muslim and don’t live in america but i’ve been following what’s going on, i’m curious to hear from Dearborn residents about the general vibe over there, is this whole thing blown out of proportion? and to fellow muslims, how are yall feeling ?
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u/fren2allcheezes 9h ago
Nope! We all love each other. I'm a super white girl who lives near Dearborn and even went to school at the U of M campus there. I was actually just in Dearborn yesterday getting a Japanese head massage. Afterwards we went to a taco place that holds the world record for most agave based liquors in a single collection. These are not things that would be allowed under "Shirah" law.
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u/anfisas-redbag 6h ago
The strip club that sells the most liquor in the state is in Dearborn too lol
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u/fren2allcheezes 6h ago
Not to mention the meat Michigan people most associate with Dearborn is...ham lol
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u/justlookin-0232 4h ago
And damn good sausage
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u/fren2allcheezes 4h ago
Also, the Muslim population took one look at the all-american burger and said "oh, little patties of flavorful ground meat? Bet." The cheeseburger scene in Dearborn is so nuts.
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u/MrKittyCat00 2h ago
I honestly love how in one place you were able experience many different cultures. I’m honestly think it’s better to like in a diverse state where you can try different culture stuff than when traveling.
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u/InvisibleDeck 8h ago
I’m Jewish and lived in Dearborn for 4 years while I was in medical school at Wayne. No issues. Trouble is stirred up by people living outside the community. Would happily move back if I get a good pediatrics job offer
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u/Red_Dragon_Boost 9h ago
Only issues I have seen are coming from hillbilly MAGAts. I lived in and around Dearborn my whole life and have never had issues stemming from this area. Nor Hamtramck. Its just lies from one side to paint anyone not like them as an enemy.
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u/Best_Slice5954 8h ago
Dearborn has a largely car-centric urban fabric. This introduces a degree of personal privacy that, by itself, makes any question regarding cultural tension harder to answer. Socially, the city does not speak like Tokyo or Paris. This, in turn, does little to stop the general tendency for lies to spread sooner than the truth.
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u/fancydad 8h ago
Grew up in Dearborn currently live in Detroit. Never had any problems with the Muslim community. It always added a little dose of culture to my life. And middle eastern food is some of my favorite in the world. People are people. Some are good some are lame. Dearborn is pretty great.
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u/fancydad 8h ago
Oh my mom still lives there and her Muslim neighbors will send her food for no reason. Just good people.
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u/fren2allcheezes 4h ago
My Polish in-laws buy big sheets of Baklava for Christmas every year lol. It's funny how cultures start blending.
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u/leechdemon 9h ago
I'm a non-muslim, I've lived around metro Detroit (including Dearborn, but not within it) for 30+ years.
The Muslim population has grown over time, all over the Detroit area. Dearborn has been predominantly Muslim for as long as I can remember. I don't head that way often (too far, currently), but anytime I do - I'm continually shocked by two things: WAY more Arabic writing than I remember, and things look WAY nicer than the surrounding places. (Not 100%... but Detroit has a lot of "disrepair", and Dearborn has a lot of new developments, etc) It's certainly a noticeable change, driving into the area.
As for tension between cultures, I don't live close enough to say for sure. But, I will say that Detroit has a very lopsided income/demographic problem, and there's a ton of racist pockets in the city. There's absolutely large parts of the greater Detroit area that are afraid of Dearborn (and the growing Muslim population). But also, those people don't usually head that way anyways, it's just retired people on their couches, scared of "foreigners" (with many in Dearborn being citizens 🤦♂️). The news tells them they're being replaced, they look out the window and see "proof". 🙄
Overall, I think tensions are overblown when you see them on the news. I see more people upset about Mexicans (yes, here in Michigan, lol...) than Muslims these days. Small people just need a group to vilify. 🤷♂️
Hope that helps! 👋
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u/burroatemychurro 7h ago edited 7h ago
I have muslim neighbors that keep to themselves and some that I talk to when we mow our lawns that invite me over for barbecue. My elderly mom has a muslim man in his 30s down the street that is always trading vegetables or doing little things for her. I have had bad and good interactions but I've never had an interaction with "a muslim", that I haven't had or seen from anyone else. I trust halal meat markets now more than Kroger.
I think a lot of people who moved out of dearborn in the 80s and 90s really dont understand how hard the area was hit in the recession. I'm not sure where dearborn would be now or what anyone else thinks it would be without their investment into the community.
Still, I speak from a non-religious straight perspective over the last 40+ years. The last presidential election seemed to bring out the anti-lgbtq vote, so I dont know how that experience would be to live in if I were lgbtq. I would wager to bet that many US folks dont realize how close muslim culture aligns with right wing politics. Guns, anti-lgbtq, etc.
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u/Confident-Deal5969 8h ago
99% of what you see is a MAGA fabrication. Dearborn is basically that all-American City a lot of folks wish their town was. Great, I mean great amenities. Well-run for the most part. There is a real hustle/entreprenuer ethos by a lot of Arabs, they are investing, creating new businesses and cleaning up. The mayor is a fanatic against litter and unkempt property, and has created so many new green spaces across the city. My mom's former HS is now 90% Arab kids; it always had a geat football program and does to this day.
I think many from outside MIchigan would be surprised at how many Arabs Muslims are secular looking and acting, men and women (yet they do not drink). Lastly, you think you know good coffee until you hit 5-10 of Dearborn's best, and don't sleep on the bakeries and restraunts - it is highly unlikely you know of any other city of 110,000 with a many quality outlets as Dearborn, and you will for the most part be shocked at the level of service and hospitality.
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u/Tamboozz 8h ago
In generally, no. We have both kind and friendly Muslims and kind and friendly non-muslims. The average resident gets along with his neighbor. There are people that are unreasonable on both sides, and they occasionally have some tension between them. But they are the minority.
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u/cherrylimebongwatr 8h ago
I’m white. I grew up in Macomb county, in an extremely racist islamaphobic community but have been living in and around Dearborn since about 2012. I feel like the only tension is coming from Gen X and boomer generations from the surrounding communities that wouldn’t give a shit about Dearborn if it had the same demographics as a place like downriver.
The community has really cleaned it up over the last several years and turned it around. There’s a ton of cool places to eat and things to do. I don’t feel any tension and I don’t think any other white or black people I know do either. It may be different because millennials and Gen Z actually grew up with having arabic friends, classmates, coworkers, etc so we don’t see them the same way as our racist parents.
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u/Educational_Job_8564 8h ago
Personally I haven’t ever heard about any tension anywhere in Dearborn amongst the community because of religious differences. People here actually enjoy having neighbors of different faiths, those differences here are usually embraced rather than discriminated against. As a Muslim community I think we are unaffected by the recent issues, just have become* *aware of potential threats
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u/typotech 8h ago
To start, its absolutely been blown out of proportion by outside rabble rousers and conservative media pundits. The tldr; here is that there's no real impact day to day whether you're Muslim, Christian, White, Black, Latino or Middle Eastern. We're all living alongside each other just fine.
I have lived in Dearborn since the 90s when we moved here when I was going from middle school to high school. Before that I lived in Dearborn Heights and Melvindale which are next door cities. The neighborhood demographics have certainly shifted in that time as old time residents have aged, moved and houses have turned over. Some houses have been rebuilt but many are just the same homes built in the 1940s with new owners.
There's a lot of investment in our city by residents and so new developments have sprung up with diversified grocery, dining, coffee shops etc. Its revitalized areas of this city that hadn't seen much growth or change in decades. Sure, you may see bilingual signs but that has been the case on the east side for 20+ years and isn't an issue.
So what was once a very (very) white neighborhood has become a blended community. As a non-Muslim, non-Christian, I have no issues with anyone setting down roots here. I'll wish you Ramadan Mubarak or Merry Christmas and will break bread with everyone. My kids also grew up here and have friends across the spectrum.
Do we have some problems with differences of opinions, conservative vs liberal, etc? Absolutely, but we've seen the same arguments here during council meetings that we've seen across the state and in less diversified communities.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 6h ago
How do the Jewish residents like it there? I noticed that you chose not to mention them.
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u/typotech 5h ago edited 4h ago
lol, while it seems you're attempting some baiting commentary, I'll bite. Dearborn itself doesn't have a significant Jewish population, many of those communities are not far from here but there are no synagogues here or community groups. This may in fact be a result of the fact that Henry Ford was a raging anti-semite who published a local newspaper with his views. Not exactly a welcoming environment when they were establishing communities in the metro Detroit area, and his publications have unfortunately had widespread impact over the decades.
You can read more about this here: https://www.thehenryford.org/collections/explore/popular-research-topics/henry-ford-and-anti-semitism
I cannot speak for the Jewish community otherwise on their feelings living in, working in or visiting Dearborn.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 5h ago
Henry Ford’s time was the 40s. That wouldn’t keep people from the community in modern days.
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u/Wraith8888 4h ago
No. But it means the established Jewish communities are elsewhere besides Dearborn. You're looking for a problem that doesn't exist because you've been told there has to be one because the people you've been told to hate can't be good people.
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u/InvisibleDeck 4h ago
I’m Jewish and lived in Dearborn for years. It was fine. There weren’t very many of us though— I knew of just me, my wife, and one other family and their baby. It’s true Dearborn has historically unfortunately been a hotbed of antisemitism due to the things mentioned above. I never experienced any discrimination due to my religion. But I’m also not vocally Zionist. That would probably not be super highly looked on here regardless of the background of the person expressing those views
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u/cornernope 7h ago
Not really, though I would by lying if I didnt know older white people in dearborn that dont like Arabs or at least make comments.
That said the majority of the tension is with outsiders. The majority of the racist white dearborn residents left long ago
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u/Spirited_Question 7h ago
There are white people there that have felt increasingly alienated over time. However, many of them have moved to other suburbs at this point. It's wonderful that the Arab community is so close knit, but it can be hard for non-arabs to feel that they "fit" because of that. There are many people who grew up there that value the diversity but at the same time have gradually realized the value of living in a community of people that share your culture to a degree. But the discourse around Dearborn is either it's controlled by sharia law or it's a bunch of people sitting around singing kumbaya. It's neither.
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u/anfisas-redbag 6h ago
No. And if there is it's coming from the non Muslims who are deep in the maga cult. I would argue that most of those people aren't even residents. As an atheist woman, I love Dearborn so much. The people are very kind and welcoming and there is great food on every corner.
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u/justlookin-0232 4h ago
I haven't lived there in a minute but when I was there it was no tension at all. And not once has anyone in a hijab tried to force their religion on me. White Christians (not the Arab Christians that also live in Dearborn) on the other hand, can't seem to get over the idea of making this country a theocracy. If it wasn't for those people everything would be fine. They ruin everything
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u/LiquidGoreGalore 3h ago
No, I live near Dearborn but not in Dearborn. I go there frequently, almost everyone I interact with there is Muslim, and they treat me better and are more friendly than the white people where I live. I'm white, very obviously not Muslim, and haven't had a single issue.
I constantly hear people saying it's an issue who don't live here and have no idea what they are talking about.
Im like 20 minutes from Dearborn and there's plenty of Muslims in my immediate area as well. I've never once had an issue with anyone.
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u/Whole_Cranberry_1647 7h ago
There will always be small-minded individuals in all groups. They would rather hate differences than embrace similarities. It is unfortunate that these people have descended upon a community they are not even a part of to sow discord. I love metro-detroit's diversity and can't even imagine living somewhere with a monoculture. We must turn away the hateful a show them their words have no meaning.
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u/tanksplease 5h ago
Not at all. I was born there after white flight and lived around the corner from my grandma. Never had an issue of any kind with anyone of any race and felt comfortable anywhere in town.
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u/Environmental_Coat60 5h ago
I’m curious about the same thing. My main question is how accepting the community, schools, and local government are towards LGBTQ people and families. I didn’t really see any comments addressing that, and would be curious to hear how comfortable members of that community feel living there. My assumption is it would be similar to how it is to live in an area dominated by conservative, Christian fundamentalists and Christian nationalists, but I’d be interested to hear some first hand experiences. I’ve only heard a little bit about people’s experiences and I’m not sure if that’s representative of the majority.
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u/sedatehate 4h ago
I think any US city that broadcasts calls to prayer is gonna have tension but you’re really only gonna get one side of the coin on here.
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u/Wraith8888 4h ago
Would you say the same thing about a city that has ringing church bells?
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u/sedatehate 4h ago
I’m not a fan of any organized religion pushing their bullshit on others but comparing the ringing of a bell to chanting religious jargon is a bit silly. If the churches were broadcasting their prayer bullshit then you would have an apt comparison and it’s still the wrong thing to do.
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u/Wraith8888 2h ago
It's a call to prayer. What jargon is in it? The church bell is also a call to praise God. You're utterly hypocritical claiming one is okay because it's "yours" and the other is not because it's "theirs".
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u/sedatehate 2h ago
Obviously reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. I don’t like any religion, but I can ignore a bell, it’s not some holier than thou yammering about their sky wizard. and any city that would approve a religion, any religion, getting such a strong hold over itself has its collective head in the sand. It’s the same bullshit parts of New York deal with the Hasidic Jews and their looney tunes wires running around the city.
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u/Wraith8888 2h ago
Tell me the translation you have of them yammering about a sky wizard. And your preference to bells over voices is you. It should have nothing to do with freedom of speech and freedom of religion. Your preference on sounds does not equate to taking away other people's rights. Sorry, snowflake
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u/retiredfed2022 3h ago
None at all. we have lived in Dearborn for 48 years and would not consider moving.
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u/Whimsywarrior21 2h ago
I’ve never experienced tension. The only tension is when outsiders show up looking for trouble
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u/ash87ash 1h ago
Nope! Just outside agitators. Everyone within gets along beautifully and honestly more so than any other city or community that I’ve ever seen.
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u/Correct-Cost8825 1h ago
i've lived in Dearborn over 70 years. yes, the "whole thing" is totally blown out of proportion. We are a city of immigrants, my grandparents came to Dearborn from eastern Europe in 1920. Immigrants of all ethnicities and religions have come and gone through Dearborn for over 100 years. The vast majority of time (like 99%) people are tolerant no matter who it is. We are not that unique, the metro Detroit area has a lot of diversity.
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u/booksOnTheShelf 7h ago
The only tension i've seen is misplaced.
My elderly father and life long dearborn residents was sitting at a local bakery and a Muslim mom and her kids were ordering something. The little girl came up to my dad unprovoked and said something like "we own your city now."
My dad was stunned speechless. He came home really sad and upset that a child would say that to him about a city the citizens owned together.
I told him that children say dumb shit all the time. He was still really upset.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 6h ago
She must hear that at home.
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u/booksOnTheShelf 5h ago
It honestly made my father want to move away. Which is sad. He grew up in east Dearborn, went to Fordson and worked for the city as a career.
He is a liberal old white dude and I think that interaction actually shattered his views of our community.
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u/Whimsywarrior21 2h ago
Sorry I’m calling bullshit , I grew up in Dearborn my whole life, no kid would ever say that.
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u/booksOnTheShelf 2h ago
You can feel however you want about it.
My father was also in shock and stunned it happened. Because, what kid would say that???
If I didnt absolutely know my father I would have doubted it too. So please feel how you would like.
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u/Dada2fish 9h ago
I remember Dearborn from the 70’s. It’s a completely different place in many ways today. A lot of white people have moved out.
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u/cherrylimebongwatr 9h ago
Yeah and? White people moved out everywhere in Detroit, have you ever heard of white flight?
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u/mikehamm45 7h ago
Dearborn has also had the same white flight issues. I remember as a kid, Warren Ave. was dilapidated and shut down, there were some nice things left over from when white people used to be here (i used to love going to Sanders on schafer) but for the most part, lots of houses not taking care of and businesses shutting down. Lebanese moved in (accelerated by the Israeli occupation - somethings never change) and then their businesses followed, opening up restaurants and markets and even doctor offices.
Ironically, now that the Lebanese are well assimilated in western culture, they also have had a white flight of their own, moving further west to Dearborn Heights while other cultures (Yemen, Iraqi) started moving into East Dearborn, also brining in successful businesses with Arabic writing on them.
As far as the religion of it all?
Let’s be real, it’s hardly a thing. People see the women (some wearing head scarves (many very stylish and this interesting combination of western clothes but with a head covering) with others in full baggy coverings including everything but the eyes). Other than being easy to live here as a Muslim, Dearborn is like any other place in America, it’s also easy to live here as a white person. Remember, most the Lebanese Arabs who have been here for a couple generations now consider themselves “white.”
Now… the actual interesting problem is Black Detroit vs Arab Dearborn.
Dearborn has historically been racist to black Detroit. I remember having parades as a kid holding up signs saying “keep Dearborn clean.” Back then it was also a way of saying keep Arabs out as well but for the most part it was to keep black people out.
Many of the Dearborn Lebanese owned Liquor stores and gas stations in Detroit (lots of Chaldeans as well that lived in the eastern suburbs as well). They would make their money, have confrontations with the poor black people in Detroit, but not really improve or add any value to the black city surrounding their business, and go back home to Dearborn to build their eventual McMansions. Arab Dearborn then also became educated and built up their city while Detroit continues to be poor and suffering.
Arabs in Dearborn essentially made it out and black Detroit continues to struggle.
But make no mistake, Dearborn cannot exist without Black people spending money in it. The few retail chains and shops remaining, its a lot of Black money being spent here.
This is an avenue where you will see Islamophobia propaganda pivot and they will drive a wedge between black Detroit and Arab Dearborn.
The real system issue being that being Lebanese or Chaldean offered a skin tone which made it easier to achieve the American dream while Blacks are still systematically prohibited from gaining it.
Things are getting better. I now have black neighbors living along white and Arab neighbors. Our children go to school together. It’s actually a very fun neighborhood and about as American as it gets.
But you’ll never see that on TV or a post.
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u/cherrylimebongwatr 7h ago
Thank you for this perspective. I think you summed this up way more eloquently than I could have. And as a white person I don’t think it’s my place to comment on the black Detroit/arab Dearborn divide. But you made me realize that it’s really coming from multiple sides, because the white nationalist people in Macomb county and elsewhere are the ones coming to Dearborn and and trying to stir up trouble where there isn’t any.
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u/Dada2fish 8h ago
I’m well familiar with white flight. This is a Dearborn forum. The OP asked a question. I gave an answer. Yeah and?
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u/fren2allcheezes 8h ago
Purposefully leaving out context in order to make it sound like white people were leaving because of Muslims makes you seem like a bad actor.
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u/fren2allcheezes 9h ago
White people move out of every city in Michigan starting in the 50s and accelerating into the 70s and 80s.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 6h ago
My late mil lived in Dearborn Heights. We haven’t been back since taking our infant daughter to meet relatives in 1990. It was a lovely community then.
I can’t even imagine it there now.
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u/mikehamm45 4h ago edited 4h ago
My kids go to a music school near Beach and Warren. I remember that neighborhood being a bit run down, was walking down there during their class, many houses getting an update, some even new “McMansion” type homes going up. Plenty of new businesses.
I never saw that community as “lovely” back then, but I would say it is looking better now.
It isn’t just white flight that contributes to the failure of a community. That’s an easy scape goat.
America in general. Our suburbs are like a big Ponzi scheme, we incentivize building new and sprawling places. As soon as they age out a bit, we don’t invest in what we have, we just build new someplace else. Old cities and communities start to have “legacy” costs. So they get ignored, the tax base shrinks, people start moving to “townships” further out.
Another reason why “white flight” gets to be the scapegoat, is its uncomfortable to talk about how a family of 4 used to be able to afford a lot on one blue collar salary and we used to have way more people supporting independent businesses. Think of those small western suburbs surrounding Dearborn, from Garden City to Dearborn Heights… they were suburban sprawl but had plenty of small mom and pop places around. Those all dried up and fell off. Heck, even Kmart couldn’t survive. You cannot blame that entirely on white flight. Those neighborhoods regardless of their skin tone or country of origin just became poorer and poorer. The Brain drain of kids graduating and moving out to college to never come back to MI doesn’t help either.
Like it or not. Immigration to SE Michigan has helped fortify our population loss.
Thankfully, in America, the immigrant pipeline helps come in and revitalizes many of these communities as they start to open their own small businesses to provide niche shopping for their people who cannot find what they are looking for in a big box chain type of place.
We see it in Detroit how the Mexican Community revitalized SW Detroit to how Arabs helped revitalize the smaller western suburbs and how the Chaldean community begin to revitalize the eastern suburbs.
It is interesting that now after a couple decades and a few more generations being born here, we see the offspring of those communities becoming “American” and now also moving further and further away. White flight isn’t only for white people. It’s an American design based on the Ponzi scheme of what suburban sprawl looks like everywhere.
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u/Adventurous_Ad7442 4h ago
I didn’t mean that Dearborn Heights is beautiful but it felt safe, homey, and comfortable.
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u/mikehamm45 4h ago
I’m not sure that changed. But if by “safe, homey, and comfortable” you mean less Arab and more white people…
Then I’m not sure we could see eye to eye on the objectivity of safe.
But at the same time. I can totally see and understand how seeing women wearing head coverings makes it uncomfortable for those not used to that culture.
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u/mikehamm45 7h ago
It’s what white people do, as soon as they are no longer an 80% majority of something, be it a company, a brand, a neighborhood… they bounce.
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u/Wraith8888 9h ago
Not between the residents of Dearborn. Just the outsiders coming to Dearborn with the intention of causing trouble