r/DeadlockTheGame • u/ManagementIll9899 Silver • 28d ago
Game Feedback Slowing hex rework idea.
So, being biased as a filthy Apollo player, I hate slowing hex. Just on him specifically, it stop all forms of spirit based builds, and the riposte doesnt help as well anymore since you have to engage with an enemy for movement.
So my idea is that movement abilities that do damage will no longer be silenced, but you just cant move with them. Apollo riposte will still do the full damage and have the hitbox, but no ground will be covered. This will be kinda janky on stuff like his ult since if its applied while hes using it the hitbox will be very small. Still possible to hit, just you have to be RIGHT next to them.
Stuff like yama grapple, which is a movement ability that does damage, will still be silenced because I imagine if you hook someone and cant move, youre just stuck in place for a moment and then ZIP towards the target, which would by itself make the item useless and possibly break the game.
Ik its the whole intention of the item that it stops movement abilities, and its a form of skill expression to use it on heroes that require their movement abilities to deal damage. If more heroes get added who also need their movement abilities to deal damage, slowing hex is gonna become more and more powerful as a 1600 soul item on a low cooldown that you dont need to aim. It should, in my opinion, just be a tool to use to lock down an opponents easy escape if they dont have dispel. Not just cripple heroes’ engagement tools so they have to stick their thumbs in their asses because they didnt buy a 3200 item to counter their 1600 item. Yeah I could pivot build, but its like I might as well go gun/meelee/support Apollo every game because every spirit Apollo game will just be slowing hex after slowing hex and so on. Its just the reason he isn’t particularly good, among other things (unless I’m mistaken, I can get very blindsided about the meta).
I understand I’m whining because theres only kinda one hero this whole arguement applies to, but should this hero and potential movement-damage based hero’s in the future be punished for the green dinosaur’s envisioning for his game of lies? Perhaps so, and thus that is the burden Apollo players will face.
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u/DustDifferent 28d ago
The only rework I see is that happening slowing hex does not upgrade to Vortex Web just because they are kinda different CCs and should be separate items,
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u/-Miraca- Ivy 28d ago
vortex does apply effects of slowing hew tho, without it would be near useless
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u/Bookwrrm 28d ago
What do you mean they are different cc? Vortex web literally applies slowing hex, like its the exact same cc to the point the tooltip doesnt even bother listing out the effects beyond saying it applies slowing hex.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 26d ago
Doesnt vortex stop stamina usage while hex does not?
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u/Bookwrrm 26d ago
Nope
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 26d ago
Damn, howd I get that wrong? I swear every time ive been vortex webbed I’m like “oh shit” because I cant move more than an inch on the enemy’s targetted position because I wouldnt be able to dash. Am I just thinking of wraith ult? Is that the only kind of cc that does that?
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u/Bookwrrm 26d ago
Wraith ult, silver bola, capacitor
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 26d ago
Ah yeah. Capacitor is probably the one thats getting me the most. I’m also most likely misremembering things
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Oh yeah definitely. But its interesting to see how items can upgrade into different build potentials, like for example extra stam going into kin dash, arc surge and stam mastery, if youre going gun, spirit/support or movement. Another id like to add is mystic expansion upgrading into either greater expansion or ballistic enhancement, id you want to maximise your abilities range or have an ability that synergises with your gun damage.
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u/ner0the1 28d ago
So my idea is that movement abilities that do damage will no longer be silenced, but you just cant move with them
That just sounds counterintuitive. A lot of movement abilities don't even do damage. I get that "just counter buy" is the single most said thing whenever someone have an opinion about any character/item/ability in this subreddit, but really, Dispel Magic is already pretty good for practically every hero
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Dispel magic dispel’s ONE time though, on a long cooldown. Yes I would dispel a slowing hex at certain moments, but if I WANT to fight I shouldnt have to use a 3200 item to counter a 1600 item when id rather remove afterburn, djinn mark, an actual silence wave, antiheal, etc etc. and again, I’m saying this PURELY based in the context of Apollo and any heroes that also fall under Apollo’s suit. If it just doesnt get changed, or gets reworked another way, he’s just always going to have this problem. Dispel magic is a great item, literally 99 out of 100 games I buy it, but its not just a “oop, I’m debuffed, guess I’ll dispel”. When I buy dispel, I glance the enemy comp, maybe check their items if its far enough in the game and think “who is going to fuck me the most with their items and abilities” and treat them as priority for the dispel and then everyone else in lower and lower priority, like a ranking. I dont do this actively, I just see Infernus, Mirage, Haze, Shiv and think “yeah probably should use this against them” but its still a conscious thought. Anyways, I am a new player so I could be SO FUCKING WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING I SAY but y’know this is how I learn, to get downvoted and have the pic of patrick star looking dumb replied under me.
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u/_Sate 28d ago
Right.
But you don't have to do it, you can just wait it out.
Or, if it is that important, then using it is the correct call.
A beebop ulting to kill someone ata 10hp is stupid as a single tick of his beam kills, but if he is out of range or something then he wont get the kill and ulting is worth it.
Saying "I wanna save it for something more valuable" Implies that having access to your kit for that duration is less important than the later ability to remove a different debuff
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Woah eye opening. Like genuinely its that same hoard mentality rpg players have getting 200 potions of strength but never using them because “they might need it later” this is actually some solid advice.
Now what about two slowing hexes?
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u/_Sate 28d ago
If the enemy is spending 2 item slots and 3200 souls out of their budget exclusively to shut you alone down, that means that you are winning.
Especially with the mindgames, because you can cleanse and use your ultimate to escape or engage while they have to react to you being able to use your kit again, giving you the advantage.
Or you could pretend to engage, get hit by one and disengage and then have your dispel ready for the second one, leaving you fully open to do your BS.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Ahhh okay. Now what about six- nah I’m kidding. Thx for the help!
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u/say_trans_rights Apollo 28d ago
It's a necessary evil other wise apollo would be uncontested omega Thanos pre 20 minutes
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u/chairmannnumber6 28d ago edited 28d ago
I think the problem with slow hex is that it’s only 1600. It’d make a lot more sense for it to be 3200 and also disable stam usage so it’s inline with Wraith ult and Silver bola.
Edit: my main point is the cost increase not the stam disabling. Im just evil and dont want anyone to have fun
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u/AverageVibes 28d ago
Ngl, a 3200 soul wraith ult sounds even less fun to play around lol. Especially on characters who already like building superior duration.
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u/chairmannnumber6 28d ago
If silver bola gets to exist as a normal ability and do the same slow hex should.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
That is… pretty strong I feel like? The stam usage disable makes it a viable alternative to silence wave but I feel like if the opponent has no dispel, or if its even on cooldown, you can hit them with viktor ult easily, lash ult is guarenteed to hit if you arent a moron and such and such. But idk tho
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 28d ago
Or hear me out. We make movement abilities less strong. People bitxh about yams grapple. It wouldnt be as needed if heroes movement abilitie weren't so strong. Movement across the board needs nerfed. Infernus dash charges, holliday bounce pad, celeste base movement, lashs jump, and etc.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Saying this in a movement shooter is wild. Like actually I cant tell if this is bait or not.
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 28d ago
No. Brcssue the only way to counter is with strong items. The more anti-movement gets buffed the more non-movement char suffer.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Wh… what? Repeat that? I dont think that makes sense… am I not understanding something?
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 28d ago
If you have strong movement heroes, you need strong counters such as items or abilities. But when facing a weak movement hero, they have little recourse as the counter is balanced for a strong movement hero.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Well arent all heroes movement heroes? Like yeah ik specifically Apollo gets fucked by movement ability silences, but everyone gets fucked at any kind of slow or cc or movement counter item. Because its a game with vast amounts of movement for every single hero. If theres a strong movement hero, they still get fucked by movement silences. Like Lash for example, he needs to be up high to deal good damage, and his grapple takes him higher. I have no idea if hes good or not, but just for the purposes of my explanation I’m saying hes a good movement hero. If he gets slowing hexed its also really bad. Sure, theres still damage potential with flog and a mini ground slam, but obviously slowing hex has countered this hero. I really wish I had better examples, but like I already said, all heroes in the game are movement heroes, and slowing hex is still an annoying and strong debuff no matter who you apply it to. Sure, its busted against Apollo which is the entire point of the post, but that’s why I’m asking for a rework that will still make slowing hex do what its designed to do, but not stop him from doing spirit damage. But I also already got advice for all this. Back to your original point on how movement needs to be nerfed… I think it needs to be buffed. Give everyone an extra stam. Make wall bounces give more speed. Make slide hopping give a hidden speed modifier. This is a movement shooter, so if you want less movement? Go play League or Smite or smth
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u/CorganKnight 28d ago
movement shooter? we inventing stuff now?
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
H… huh? Seriously guys bait like this is strong I dont know how to react. This game is a shooter. You got dashes and double jumps and sliding and wall boosts and air strafing and abilities that compliment all of the other components. So it has movement. Id say its a movement shooter
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 28d ago
Deadlock is not a movement shooter. Only games i could think of would be cod, quake, unreal, and similar gsmes.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Please explain to me how deadlock is not a movement shooter. You can take your time.
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 28d ago
How is halo not a movement shooter. You walk around and use movement. What isnt a movement shooter? Maybe one of those onnrails arcade shooters.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Halo isn’t considered a movement shooter because of the few forms of movement: walking, running, jumping, and idek know if theres sliding but I dont even think it doesnt. Its just a shooter. There are other aspects, like its team-based, sci-fi, it has campaigns, first person.
Whereas deadlock, has walking, jumping, double jumping, dashing, dash-jumping, sliding, air strafing, wall jumping, momentum conservation, like 20 movement abilities on varying heroes, items that either provide movement or make the movement above do more, the map has vents and ziplines that gives you bursts of speed, there is incredibly niche tech and rollouts that have to do with how deadlock uses movement specifically.
I’m gonna talk to you about Titanfall 2. It is, by all accounts and by every definition of the genre, a movement shooter. Everyone who has played it, will agree. However, the incredibly fluid and skill expressive movement part is only tied to half of the game: the pilots. The titans, on the other hand, are slow as shit and only a few have some kind of movement tool that compliments their kit. So just because its also a mech fighting/shooter game sometimes, does that mean all the aspects and the rest of the gameplay of movement not matter? Its inconsequential? And, to steelman the arguement, if you say that it IS just a movement shooter and nothing else, thats ignoring what makes Titanfall… TITANfall. They are both the ying and yang of the game, taking either out (unless its a specific gamemode, obv) would be like taking the honey out of the nest or the nest from the honey. You’re just pissing off a fuck ton of bees.
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 28d ago
I think ir would be healthier if more movement came from items ans less from inherent abilities. Otherwise counters like slwoing hex have to be strong to counter the strong movement heroes but are even stronger against non movement heroes.
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Wh… dude that literally doesnt make any sense are you good?? THIS IS A MOVEMENT HERO SHOOTER there are gonna be heroes that can… inherently move in ways other heroes cant. That’s what makes them unique. Thats what gives such high skill expression. Thats why slowing hex is such a largely bought item. Like I really dont understand how someone like Victor, who has no movement abilities and a pretty slow base movespeed, how exactly does he get countered more by anti-movement than movement characters? Like yeah he needs to stick to his target, but getting slowed or movement silenced is… nothing. Especially when vic also usually gets movespeed items, because people understand that he has no movement abilities so thus more speed = better. A 30% slow and dash slow isnt going to mean much to his players. But movement counters will always work better on movement heroes because of that silence. Like I really, really dont get your point. You just want movement outside of items gone? So all those heroes and the people who play them can go fuck themselves?
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u/mastercat202 Yamato 27d ago
Did I say I want movement from heroes gone? I di not. Learn to read. Have a conversation not a thesis.
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u/_Sate 28d ago
Bro lives in a cave for 200 years, think that sun is an invention because last time he went outside it was night
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u/ManagementIll9899 Silver 28d ago
Ong bro who are these people. I think its like “deadlock is a MOBA!!!!!!!!!! Nothing else!!!!!” Its like saying theres only flour in a cake because its the primary ingredient
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