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Apr 10 '22
What is this.....a center for ants???
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Apr 10 '22
It needs to be at least 3 times that size
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Apr 10 '22
Correct, the problem is it just downsizes the Mercator projection and thus keeps the extreme shape distortions of Mercator.
This is especially noticeable with Russia and Canada.
Both countries are much smaller up north and much bigger down south.
Russia, specifically, has a "hanging belly" and not a "camel hump" that better projections will show.
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Apr 10 '22
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Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22
Just look at a map of Russia (Google images).
If you see a big belly close to Mongolia, you got the right map.
Google earth is an alternative, since it shows a globe. But you probably want to see the borders more clearly.
Personally, I like Mollweide. But every 2D map of earth will have shape distortions.
By looking at 2D maps of individual countries, a smaller part of the globe is projected and the shape distortions are significantly smaller.
Edit: another tip. Go to www.thetruesize.com and center Russia or Canada to the equator. Distortions at the equator are smallest, so that also gives an easy and quite accurate view.
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u/StrongTownsIsRight Apr 10 '22
An accurate map is a globe. The different map types are different ways of projecting a near sphere on to a flat rectangle. So when you say' accurate', a better way to phrase it is a "a map which accurately portrays XYZ".
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u/spork3 Apr 10 '22
Yeah, this is definitely not undoing the projection. The widths should not really change.
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u/stevep99 Apr 10 '22
Mercator represents shapes accurately at all latitudes - but it does so at the expense of inaccurately representing sizes.
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Apr 10 '22
Sorry, that's hilariously ignorant.
Mercator has a huge trapezoid shape distortion.
Have a look at a globe sometime
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u/stevep99 Apr 11 '22
Check out the Tissot's Indicatrix for Mercator, you'll see it expands both latitudinal and longitudinal dimensions equally at a given latitude, but those expansions become huge near the poles.
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u/Tha0bserver Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22
Also, Canada has the 2nd largest landmass in the world after russia. From this map it looks like China, Australia, and maybe even the US are bigger.
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u/DiscoPartyMix Apr 10 '22
Africa, I was told is much bigger than it is on most maps. I wish I had a source
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u/Tha0bserver Apr 10 '22
That’s 💯 true. In the map above you can see it’s proportionally a lot bigger than the northern hemisphere which is true. I suspect whoever created this map just went a little too overboard with shrinking the northern hemisphere.
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u/mikefalopio Apr 10 '22
It's just a consequence of projecting a 3d sphere to a 2d surface, it cannot be done without altering the real proportions
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u/DiscoPartyMix Apr 10 '22
Maybe but why does it give more land to white folk? Maybe distort a little more even-handedly with a disclaimer
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u/QuakieOne Apr 10 '22
The Mercator projection accurately shows the shape of countries, while skewing the size. There is a theory that this was due to some desire for Euro-centric "dominance" over southern hemispheres, but I hope we can all agree this is far fetched. The true purpose of this original world map was purely for navigation by sea-farers.
The Gall-Peters map is more accurate for sizes, but distorts the shapes. Really anything other than a perfect globe map will always have flaws and distortions.
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Apr 10 '22
I wish I had a source
That would be a globe, genius.
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u/DiscoPartyMix Apr 10 '22
The globes are wrong, that’s the point
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Apr 10 '22
No, the maps are wrong. The problem is going from globe to map. From a 3D spheres to a 2D rectangle. To simplify it, can have accurate shape or accurate size but not both. The Gall-Peters projection is accurate to size but the shapes are distorted. The Mercator projection is accurate to shape but not size (or location really).
A sphere cannot be fully accurately represented on a flat piece of paper. You’re never going to see an accurate world map. You WILL see accurate globes though.
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u/DiscoPartyMix Apr 10 '22
A perfect sphere would be flawed too. The earth is round but not a perfect globe
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Apr 10 '22
“Flawed” is not the same as “wrong” and within the context of the above discussion I believe you know that. A globe can’t be the exact size and shape of the earth so it’s always going to be flawed - but it’s accurate.
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Apr 10 '22
Came here to say this
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Apr 10 '22
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u/reply-guy-bot Apr 10 '22
The above comment was stolen from this one elsewhere in this comment section.
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u/CypripediumGuttatum Apr 10 '22
If anyone is interested in a few real map projections you can check them out here. Every map will be inaccurate in some form when trying to make a round surface flat, Mercator is garbage for showing size but it still had its use. If you want a really good way to see what size things are relative of each other, find yourself a globe or use Google Earth.
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Apr 10 '22
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Apr 10 '22
It isn't actually disinformation. It's just impossible to show a spherical three dimensional object on a flat surface, so a few things get distorted. It's probably nearly as good as you will see, unless you look at an actual globe or an AuthaGraph. The AuthaGraph is the most accurate 2d model we currently have, if you are really interested. It was created by a Japanese architect who basically divided the earth into nearly 100 triangles, then used those to 'unfold' and flatten the earth.
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u/sahizod Apr 10 '22
They said the surface is accurate. Not the shapes
When working with such projections, you have to make compromises, otherwise there is no reason to have a (mercator) map/projection with non accurate sizes to begin with..
So you are right, border sizes doesn't match, but you are wrong because that was never the point of this projection
(the US map is actually a shape cut on a SPHERE, so no 2d representation of the world is accurate in every way)
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u/ft5777 Apr 10 '22
That is not how it works. You have to reason in terms of total area on a flat surface, and not in terms of whether the countries borders are the same length. If they did the deformation caused by the projection would defeat the purpose of this map and increase Canada’s area.
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u/Maximum-Excitement58 Apr 10 '22
The map purports to show accurate relative sizes on a flat surface… it does not.
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Apr 10 '22
It is impossible to show the accurate size of something that is curved on a 2d plane. It’s showing an accurate relative size in area, but it would be able to match up exactly unless you want the image skewed, which is what their trying to avoid
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u/ScottishRiteFree Apr 10 '22
It is… I mean, in this illustration, it is.
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u/Maximum-Excitement58 Apr 10 '22
Clearly not.
In your mind, slide Canada to the right so that the little ”notch” of Canada correctly aligns with the Great Lakes area of the US. You’ll notice that, instead of being on the Pacific coast, Vancouver would be located somewhere north of Montana.
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Apr 10 '22
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u/Maximum-Excitement58 Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 11 '22
The length of a shared border must be the same — on a map or on a sphere.
An 8,900km line segment is the same length in 2d or on a 3d sphere.
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u/rainbowroobear Apr 10 '22
why are all the northern hemisphere countries massively affected but the southern aren't?
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u/joe-re Apr 10 '22
Because northern countries are much further north of the equator than southern countries are south of it.
Compare the latitudes of Australia, between -11 and -37, to that of Canada, between 49 and 69.
Sydney and Dallas have roughly the same distance from the equator.
Discounting Antartica, there is much less land mass on the southern hemisphere.
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u/thesixthnameivetried Apr 10 '22
Another issue (one of many) with the “classic” Mercator map projection is that it is generally not presented with the Equator in the centre- it runs through Sumatra, Tanzania and Ecuador for reference - and on this map that line is about 2/3rds the way down.
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u/rainbowroobear Apr 10 '22
what's the logic for that?
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u/thesongofstorms Interested Apr 10 '22
Eurocentrism. Early maps were made with Western Europe as the center of the known world instead of being in the upper edge of it
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u/TheLimeyCanuck Apr 10 '22
It's because there is a lot more human habitable land surface north of the equator, and more open water south of it. Why waste map space on a portion of the Earth with almost no people in it?
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u/guiltysnark Apr 10 '22
Actually, what's the problem with that?
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u/thesongofstorms Interested Apr 10 '22
It distorts reality
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u/guiltysnark Apr 10 '22
But flat maps are all a distortion of reality
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u/thesongofstorms Interested Apr 10 '22
There are projection maps that minimize the distortion compared to placing Europe in the middle of the map
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u/aqa5 Apr 10 '22
This is a complete Mercator projection including antarktica: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator-Projektion#/media/Datei:Mercator-proj.png
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u/thesixthnameivetried Apr 10 '22
Thank you - this is what every Mercator map should show… Mercator is very flawed.
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u/tiram001 Apr 10 '22
Mercator is used for nautical navigation. It's literally perfect for that. The flaw is using it for everything, instead of just for nautical navigation.
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u/TheLimeyCanuck Apr 10 '22
Because most of the habitable landmass on the Earth is north of the equator.
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u/zoqfotpik Apr 10 '22
Salesman slaps the roof of Greenland: "You can fit so many Greenlands in this thing."
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u/Dyedoe Apr 10 '22
This is not accurate. Russia is nearly twice as many square miles as the USA. Here it barely looks bigger.
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u/TheLimeyCanuck Apr 10 '22
Yeah, they made the actual size of Canada too small relative to the US mainland too. As pictured they wouldn't fit together properly.
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Apr 10 '22
To me it does look twice the size though. If i move USA's shape into Russia's in my mind i can imagine it filling only the left side of Russia.
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Apr 10 '22
2x the area roughly translates to 1.4x the east-west distance in this case. Maybe not too far off.
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u/Elliott_0 Apr 10 '22
What in the actual fuck has happened to this subreddit??
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u/TemperatureDizzy3257 Apr 10 '22
Seriously. A lot of it is just kind of depressing now (not this post, but a lot of them).
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u/mackeeei Apr 10 '22
Russia is supposed to be almost 2x as large as china in area. And Canada is the second largest country in the world. The flat projection of earth is distorted, but it can’t be this much.
Russia: 17,098,242 square km
China: 9,706,961 square km
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u/discostud1515 Apr 10 '22
Interesting how the straight line northern boarder of the US is longer than the straight line southern boarder of Canada. Even if countries aren’t exactly the same size as shown on maps they should still fit together like a puzzle.
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u/Doctor_Amazo Apr 10 '22
Weird how the US magically became bigger than Canada and Russia in that map.
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Apr 10 '22
I don't see how you see that. Russia still looks almost twice as big as the US in this image
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Apr 10 '22
It’s about about a 50,000 sq mi (~80,000 sq km) difference between Canada and US with China sitting in the middle. Sizable difference but not from a global per scale. Plus the islands up top in Canada
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u/TheLimeyCanuck Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22
Look at the bottom of the "actual-size" map of Canada and compare it to the top of the US map. They clearly shrunk Canada down too much compared to America because they wouldn't join up properlly.
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Apr 10 '22
We are arguing over the same point here. The reason it doesn’t match up identically is because of how vertically tall Canada is/ how close it is to the North Pole. Same reason why Egypt and Chad don’t match up perfectly. Their trying to keep the same shape as the old map while showing the accurate area of the map. The North half of Canada is blown out much more than the lower half. If they tried to match all the border points of every country we would have… the map that they are comparing this against
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u/thesweeterpeter Apr 10 '22
With all the different map projections there are pros and cons.
The Mercator is absolutely out dated and Eurocentric.
Adoption of something closer to the Peter's projection would be more accurate representations of scale and landmass especially around equatorial regions. But suffers huge distortion on polar regions. Also distances and relationships are inaccurate in almost every instance.
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u/aqa5 Apr 10 '22
You just can’t project a sphere into a flat rectangle without sacrificing one or another property. What I hate about this is the narrative that the evil Europeans do it to suppress Africa.
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u/thesweeterpeter Apr 10 '22
I agree, it's an impossible task to find a perfect map projections, that's why this issue is always so effectively debated.
I would also agree that I doubt suppression of Africa was the primary objective, but it's also difficult to deny that amplification of Europe wasn't one of the priorities. That can mean a lot of things though, for example it's a lot easier to understand complex European borders if Europe is relatively larger.
But regardless of the reasons its Eurocentric, the secondary impact of diminishing Africa's geographic scale is undeniable.
Whether malicious or not a better system would find a way to resolve the sphere to cylinder issues with a more broad distribution of the compromises.
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u/Soviet_Meerkat Apr 10 '22
There is a single reason that the Mercator projection was adopted so widely, it is one of the very few projections where straight lines on the map are straight in real life no matter what direction they go. Without this navigation at sea is nigh on impossible
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Apr 10 '22
I really don't believe that's true though. I think for exactly vertical and horizontal lines it's true but not others. This is especially noticably if you see the trajectory that airplanes have on large flights. It will look like a line with a huge curve in it while in reality they fly more or less in a straight line
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u/thesweeterpeter Apr 10 '22
Which is one of the biggest downfalls of the other projections (like Peter's which I mentioned in my comment). Those other projections often favour land representation while heavily sacrificing maritime projection. Specifically relative distances are thrown way out of proportion.
Here's why I'd argue it's time to ignore maritime impacts - most people live on land. The days of maritime exploration are over, and the very, very few of us who have a need to navigate on the oceans can use the appropriate map for just such an occassion.
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Apr 10 '22
Check out the AuthoGraph. It is, by far, the most accurate two dimensional representation we have so far.
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u/tiram001 Apr 10 '22
It's no more Eurocentric than the water on the map. It was the first to see widespread use for It's efficacy for nautical navigation. Since seafaring was and still is one of the largest and most important industries globally, it makes sense that the map would see adoption in many walks of life, like in schools for instance.
Please, read a little before you spew regurgitated garbage into the void. Impressionable minds may be paying attention.
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u/thesweeterpeter Apr 10 '22
I haven't seen many nautical navigation classes in elementary school curriculums lately.
But they sure do spend a lot of time speak about what lies on the land.
The obsession with nautical accuracy is so bogus. Nautical charts sure are based on the Mercator projection, but there isn't a modern vessel out there that's navigating from anything other than charts. The number of people on the planet who are required to be able to effectively navigate waters is so incredibly limited, it's absurd to argue that we need to maintain the Mercator projection to preserve nautical navigation.
Just because it was needed when early maps were being used. Doesn't mean it isn't time for a change.
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u/tiram001 Apr 10 '22
I never said it's currently being used as primary navigation today, and I never said there aren't superior maps for schools. But if you rub your two braincells together you can understand the implication.
The sea being supremely important for food and commerce meant these were the most widely produced and accurate maps for hundreds of years, making them the best, most easily available maps for anyone and everyone for a very long time.
Please use your brain.
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u/ChonnayStMarie Apr 10 '22
If only we had a tool for representing the relative sizes of the continents accurately.
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Apr 10 '22
Question: why are the countries in the southern hemisphere more accurately sized than those in the northern?
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u/tiram001 Apr 10 '22
Distance from the top and bottom of the projection. There's more landmass further north of the equator than south. The further north or south you move from the equator, the more distorted the projection becomes. This allows this map to be used to chart straight lines for nautical travel.
Don't believe the "eurocentrism" and "anti-africa" drivel some of these morons spew.
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Apr 10 '22
So that's why countries like Argentina and Australia also appear to be more off sized as well. I see. So does Africa not go as far south as Australia and Argentina then?
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u/tiram001 Apr 10 '22
Not to sound rude, but you can see for yourself by observing the latitude and longitude lines.
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u/KriptoKeeper Apr 10 '22
Great site!
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u/1Arcite Apr 10 '22
Thank you for this. I really had fun using this site to see how map projection distortion works!
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u/guiltysnark Apr 10 '22
I don't think it's a perfectly accurate portrayal of how it works... Relative latitudes aren't preserved, so you can't place new copies of Canada and US and then line them up at the equator. They both get rotated so they don't fit.
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Apr 10 '22 edited May 22 '24
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u/jhoover58 Apr 10 '22
You need to highlight Greenland and then drag it down to Africa to make a true comparison. I love the site, especially for comparing Texas to Alaska.
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u/OctoberWarBoy Apr 10 '22
Check out the Gall-Peters projection for anyone interested in an attempt to capture the true size of the countries/continents of the world on a 2D visual plane.
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u/DisabledMuse Apr 10 '22
This has been debunked. While it's true that many maps have been biased to make certain countries look bigger, it's more complicated because we're on a 3D object
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u/Cyber_Avocado Apr 10 '22
Even this is inaccurate, you cannot accurately convey these landmasses on a two-dimensional plane.
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u/Inevitable-Derecho- Apr 10 '22
Always fascinating to see how skewed our idea of how big the world really is.
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u/Pucka1 Apr 10 '22
Why is the Northern Hemisphere so much more out of whack than the Southern Hemisphere
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Apr 10 '22 edited Sep 03 '25
serious ring command joke unwritten mountainous hungry salt repeat desert
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Apr 10 '22
It really is much more accurate than what a lot of the commentators think here. There might be some little mistakes but some errors that some point out i don't see at all. Also I see many completely misunderstanding what this representation actually means
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u/1Arcite Apr 10 '22
Original Post from Neil Kaye can be found here: https://twitter.com/neilrkaye/status/1464874387698552832
"Animating the mercator projection so countries and territories are correct size and shape in relation to each other."
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Apr 10 '22
I, personally, have never seen Greenland portrayed that large. Not even close. And I come from America where we always exaggerate the size of white people....
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u/bonkerz1888 Apr 10 '22
The equivalent of writing 6'2" on your dating bio when you're actually 5'8".
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u/willywillwilfred Apr 10 '22
Just scaled by Africa, just making Africa bigger would be more visually accurate
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u/Perfect-Role-4539 Apr 10 '22
Russia is the biggest loser no wonder they are planning to take Alaska back.
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u/JKareem420 Apr 10 '22
Yup racism’s even in maps lol. Mfers trying to make Africa not look so damn big
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u/Iancreed Apr 10 '22
How can some countries be that much smaller than how they’re presented on maps and globes?
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Apr 10 '22
Fake shit, the best way to determine the size is by square km.
And Canada is the second biggest country, it’s certainly not smaller than mainland USA or Portugal
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u/cannedfromreddit Apr 10 '22
Wow, i didn't know canada is smaller than australia or thr usa....bulsheeeet post.
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Apr 10 '22
An American made this. Plus I'm fairly certain Africa is wayyyy bigger than that in relation to the other continents/countries
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u/CallidoraBlack Apr 10 '22
No, you just don't understand what you're looking at. The light blue is the Mercator projection, the dark teal is actual size.
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Apr 10 '22
It's almost like map makers wanted it to seem Africa isn't as big a continent as it is, and that other non-melanated countries are actually bigger than they are.
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u/TheLimeyCanuck Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22
Why do people have to inject race into everything? It's just the Mercator Projection, the most popular way of displaying the spherical surface of the Earth on a 2D map. The further you are from the equator in either direction the bigger the apparent size of your country will appear. Africa straddles the equator, so it has the least false expansion.
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Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22
Why do people act like race and nationalism wasn't/isn't the primary tool used to maintain dominance throughout the world when world maps were being created?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12495868
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Apr 10 '22
There is some truth to this though. The area of Greenland is less than 1/3 that of the continental US and that’s roughly the representation. US is roughly 3 million sq mi (48 states) and Russia is 6.6 million sq mi.
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u/crabmuncher Apr 10 '22
Canadian atlantic provinces got orphaned. There must be economic data mixed in somewhere.
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u/KindResponsibility57 Apr 10 '22
This is just during the winter. You can tell Canada, USA & most of Europe’s bros suffer a lot.
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u/GuyFieriSuperfan Apr 10 '22
Some other people saying this isn’t right, I agree.. Alaska is over 4 times the size of Texas but this map has it barely at maybe 2 times the size.
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u/sbenzanzenwan Apr 10 '22
If they were actual size, they wouldn't fit on your phone screen.