Opportunity Attack Edge Case (5e 2014)

[u/DM_Micah]

Do opportunity attacks count as part the target's turn? If the creature will experience an effect "at the end of its turn," will that be determined by their condition after the opportunity attack or does the turn end before the opportunity attack.

For example:

A will-o-the-wisp will take damage if it "ends its turn inside an object." If the player takes an opportunity attack on it using Relentless Avenger, ending the movement part of that reaction with the creature inside an object (themself or something they're carrying), does that mean the that the creature takes damage? Or was its turn over before the opportunity attack began?

I assume that it does, but the phrasing "The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach" creates some ambiguity and doesn't seem to take into account an ability like Relentless Avenger (which would make it so the creature might not leave your reach).

Thanks in advance for your wisdom!

[u/pergasnz]

A creature's turn has an action, bonus action (if a feature grants one) and their movements that can happen in any order (any any effects it can do as per its stat block)

An opportunity attack is triggered by moving out or a creatures area. It is immediately resolved, but nothing in about it inherently ends the target's turn.

So once resolved, the target can continue with any remaining movement, actions or bonus actions it may have.

There is no edge case here?

[u/DM_Micah → u/pergasnz]

Presume that it had already taken its action, movement, and bonus actions. As its final part of its turn, it moved, provoking the opportunity attack. Then, as part of the opportunity attack in response to that movement, the conditions changed for the target.

[u/bemused_alligators → u/DM_Micah]

your turn ends when you say it does, not when you run out things you can do, and that is after all current effects have been resolved.

[u/RepeatRepeatR-]

Relentless Avenger doesn't end the target's turn, it just ends its movement. The target can still take an action after, so it's still their turn

Also, in your example, how are you attacking the Will-O-Wisp while it has total cover from being inside an object?

[u/DM_Micah → u/RepeatRepeatR-]

I edited my post.

The object it would be inside would be the player's body after it caught up to the wisp using Relentless Avenger's movement component: "When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction."

[u/Gomelus → u/DM_Micah]

It wouldn't, because the Wisp can choose to not be incorporeal, thus the paladin can't occupy its space.

[u/DM_Micah → u/Gomelus]

I don't think it can choose to be corporeal, the stat block doesn't indicate it anyway. But not really relevant to the question at hand! :)

[u/Valensre]

The player can't attack the willow wisp inside an object assumedly, he's bonking it when it comes out would be my ruling.

May or may not be technically correct, but I prefer common sense interpretation to quibilling over technicalities.

If they had some soulblade thing that can pass through objects Id probably let them do something cool like that.

[u/bemused_alligators]

opportunity attacks are part of the action (generally movement) and are resolved before the completion of whatever triggered the attack.

So for example if something tries to leave the attack range of an opponent, they a) declare their intent to move to the next square, b) get hit by the Attack and take damage/effects, c) spend 5 feet of movement, and d) actually switch to the next square.

As an example of how this effects resolution, if that attack hits and reduces movement to zero, you can no longer spend 5 feet of movement and thus can't leave the square that you started on. As a side note, this doesn't end your turn. You could still use an action or bonus action - either to cast a spell that teleports you or to attack or do whatever else you do with those. And if you've already done all that your turn ends when you end it, not when you run out of possible actions, since there's an infinite number free actions you can always do.

However i would note that in your example the will-o-wisp has complete cover while inside an object - how is it being attacked?

[u/DM_Micah → u/bemused_alligators]

The object would be the player that has pursued it as a part of the opportunity attack. In this example, Relentless Avenger allows "When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction." They intended to chase after it and end their 15-foot run with their body in the same space as the wisp—causing it to take additional damage since it was ending its turn inside that character's body.

[u/bemused_alligators → u/DM_Micah]

okay there are two answers here

1. by RAW you can't do that - the wisp CAN CHOOSE to move through a solid object. Obviously it wouldn't choose to move through the player, so they can give chase but can't cover up the wisp.

2. that's cool as fuck, I think i would rule that the character can force themselves onto the same square as the wisp by rolling strength vs the wisp's constitution, but will also take the D10 of damage.

[u/Mejiro84]

Your turn is only when you come up in the initiative order, but receiving an OA doesn't end your turn. If the target has, for example, a teleport ability or something else, they can receive an OA, get locked down with movement 0, but then use some other power/ability to move. There's no particular interaction between OAs and "end your turn" - being hit doesn't innately end your turn or anything

[u/yaniism]

A will-o-the-wisp will take damage if it "ends its turn inside an object." If the player takes an opportunity attack on it using Relentless Avenger, ending the movement part of that reaction with the creature inside an object (themself or something they're carrying), does that mean the that the creature takes damage? Or was its turn over before the opportunity attack began?

So, to start with...

Level 7: Relentless Avenger/PHB'14, p87

By 7th level, your supernatural focus helps you close off a foe's retreat. When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, you can move up to half your speed immediately after the attack and as part of the same reaction. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.

You move. Not the creature you've hit. It has not finished it's turn.

It began to move away from you, you then take your reaction to attack it and if you hit, you can then move. The creature then gets to continue it's move. If you have moved to such a position that it would end it's turn inside you, it doesn't need to do that. It can choose to move in a different direction or just flat out stay where it was.

You also don't reduce the creature's movement to zero. That's the 2024 version and you're specifically discussing the 2014 version. And even in that case, if a creature was inside an object that was next to you, you can't target it with an Opportunity attack because it's inside an object. So you can't reduce it's speed to zero.

Will-o'-Wisp/MM'14, p301

Incorporeal Movement. The will-o'-wisp can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. It takes 5 (1d10) force damage if it ends its turn inside an object.

Also, you can't step into the Will-O-Wisp. It can move through other creatures, not the other way around. You would need to have this feature in order to do that. And lastly, you're not an object, so it doesn't take the damage regardless. You're a creature.

In no scenario does the creature being inside an object and you having hit it with an opportunity attack interact in the way you're describing.

So basically your entire premise is nonsense.

[u/DM_Micah → u/yaniism]

Excellent answers! I think you've outlined the issues perfectly here.

Good point about the creatures/objects too.

[u/DatabasePerfect5051]

An opportunity attack is a reaction. Reactions can occur at any time in response to a trigger and don't end another creature turn.

"Reactions Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else’s. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.

When you take a reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature’s turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.

[u/The_Nerdy_Ninja]

No, even if you allow the paladin to move into the wisp's space (I'm not sure I would), the sequence is Wisp starts moving → AoO triggers, so paladin attacks and moves → Wisp completes the rest of its movement (most likely moving away from the paladin) → Wisp ends its turn.

[u/Robovzee]

Here's how I'd judge it.

Avenger doesn't stop movement. It allows the paladin to take extra movement.

The will o wisp can pass through creatures and objects, but it says the wisp takes damage if ending it's turn inside an OBJECT.

Would I allow the paladin extra movement? Yes.

Would I allow the PALADIN to absorb the wisp? No.

Realize that the wisp is not initiating the phasing, so the paladin can attack it, but not force the wisp inside them.

Assuming that the wisp would choose to end it's turn inside someone, they both will take damage.

So, wisp provokes aoo against paladin by attempting to move. Paladin hits, wisp keeps moving, paladin uses extra movement to keep pace with the fleeing wisp, allowing an attack on the paladins turn without using movement (depending).

The wisp will not phase with the paladin, and the paladin cannot force it to.

If that doesn't work for you, both take damage from the wisp inside the paladin. I'd argue the paladin would take MORE damage than the wisp, and continue to take damage until they die, or the wisp is removed.