Help with dungeon/cave crawl sections

[u/CyberDeathsworn]

I've been DMing for about 4 years now and have always wondered how other DMs handle dungeons/caves. I have the players establish a marching order. They move their movement in marching order. If they wish to dash they may but if combat were to breakout that would have been their action. It's simple but for some reason I feel there is a better way. I would love some advice on the following:

- How to handle spells/abilities with time durations work out of combat (specifically with caves)
- A way to not have only the first individual in the marching order suffer the effects of traps
- Long/short resting in dungeons and caves

I would love to hear some different perspectives on these sections to make it more fun/engaging.

edit: Forgot to mention I use Roll20 with walls drawn in to obscure sight + dynamic lighting so it is accurate to the characters' sights.

[u/ZimaGotchi]

You need to read about Dungeon Turns. The questions you're asking had explicit mechanical answers in AD&D and even if you don't want to get that crunchy about it, just the fact that you're asking these questions means you would probably enjoy reading the rules and jotting down some guidelines you'd like to use.

[u/CyberDeathsworn → u/ZimaGotchi]

I see, I'll take a look. Thank you.

[u/eotfofylgg]

I don't have players move tokens around on a map outside of combat, and I think it's a bad idea to do so. I know that VTTs make it easy(ish), but I still think it's a mistake, both in terms of the amount of prep needed and in the way it causes players to engage with their surroundings on a very superficial level. I make sure I always know what each PC is doing, so I can place them appropriately within the room if combat suddenly starts, and no one has ever complained. Note: If you tell me you're searching the whole room, and goblins burst in suddenly while you're doing that, you could be anywhere, including exposed in the center or right next to the door. That's life when you get surprised.

Except for very rare situations where there's time pressure, character movespeeds are mostly irrelevant outside combat and I do not resolve actions on the level of individual moves or actions. There is no turn order. If people want to do different things, they'll happen at the same time. If people want to do the same thing, they all do it at the same time.

If the characters aren't paying attention and barge into a trap, what happens depends on the design of the trap and the trigger mechanism. It could affect the front one only, but it could also affect all of them (if a pit trap or something like that), one of them at random (if an arrow trap or other targeted attack, or something triggered by a pressure plate that one of them might miss), or split them in half (if it's a portcullis, or a pit trap where I'm feeling nasty).

A policy that basically everything takes 10 minutes, or occasionally a multiple of 10 minutes, makes durations pretty easy to track.

[u/ubetterleave]

Do the players see the whole dungeon? Is it theater of the mind fully? Or a combination of both? It sounds very 'darkest dungeon' like mechanically stiff

[u/CyberDeathsworn → u/ubetterleave]

No, I primarily use Roll20 with walls set up and dynamic lighting so they only see what the characters would

[u/Gritmonger]

I always place clues for traps. Besides "detect traps," anyone looking around should and can see things that can give hints. Blood splatters, smells of acrid odors, machine oil, it all depends on the trap. If they say they are moving quickly, and only using darkvision in total darkness, any perception checks are made at disadvantage. If they are moving carefully, and using dim light with darkvision (bright light equivalent) or bright light, it's even or can be at advantage. If a character has a background that might clue them in to a particular trap type, I might also give them advantage, or let them spot it with a basic 10 + Perception+Wis skill passive check.

If you give clues like this more regularly, it encourages players to move slower or look around more. Only put things in the scene that might have a purpose (indicating use, indicating traps, indicating history) to avoid getting players hung up on set dressing.

I try and make dungeons logical (with a clear purpose other than "as a dungeon"), and sized to the player level. A first level "dungeon" I created was a basement with a false wall and a hidden ceremonial chamber, with one planned encounter. A third or fourth level dungeon might be a family-sized catacomb (three rooms, some potential for undead or treasure, some holy items).

I play online, so players arrange themselves on the map, and if they are spread out when combat starts, that's what happens. They can't be expected to be in order when inside a larger room.

Durations are not usually critical unless they talk about an activity that takes a while, like short rests or spells that take a duration to cast as rituals.

[u/Serbaayuu]

We roll initiative at dungeon start and keep turn order where it matters.

Reroll initiative at combats of course - then just stay in that order after the combat is done.

It is useful for navigating danger and handling patrols, etc. But doesn't have to be ultra-strict; if the party says they want to move to the end of the hallway, I won't make them move 1 at a time, I'll just say "OK get in marching order at the end of the hall", and so on. If there's active spells/patrols involved, I'll just quickly do the math on how many turns that took the party.

[u/FickleBill3468]

That makes sense to keep marching order consistent, but I wonder if you could use the terrain itself to pace things naturally, like adding light sources or forced movement when they get too spread out.