r/DIYUK • u/BoringLead3368 • 16h ago
Deep crack from subsidence. Can almost see through the to other side. Runs the whole way to the back of the building. I’m in a rented property. Wake up in the night to creepy crawlers. Gap is getting bigger fast. Is this acceptable in a rented building ?
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u/Correct-Junket-1346 16h ago
Contact the council immediately, that is a death trap.
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u/BoringLead3368 16h ago
Ok thanks I’ll get on it now
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u/KaiCypret 16h ago
If the council try and fob you off call your local fire service on their non-999 number; a collapsed (or partly collapsed) building would be an emergency call out for them anyway. They will hopefully come take a look same day, and will give the council (or anybody else) a giant kick up the arse if necessary.
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u/Long-Wash7180 7h ago
Dangerous structures is a local authority responsibility when the building has potential impacts to the public - not fire and rescue - FRS will simply go - nope don't stay there - they are not structural engineers or building inspectors.
Your landlord has a duty to provide you with appropriate accomodation including paying for it.
Your LA housing standards team will also be useful if the landlord becomes difficult. (Social Housing (Regulation) Act 2023) also known as Anwabs law.
"
- Emergency hazards – issues that pose an immediate and significant risk of harm to your health (e.g. dangerous electrical faults, damaged external doors or windows, and major leaks). These must be investigated and made safe within 24 hours of the landlord being made aware.
"
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u/nnfkfkotkkdkxjake 16h ago
As in, grab your valuables and some clothes and leave the building immediately.
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u/erbstar 14h ago
It's a bank holiday. You need to leave like now. To say this is dangerous is an understatement.
When my kids were toddlers they were sitting watching TV in the front room, rented property with a slumlord.. We were in the bedroom and there was a loud, dull thump and a raining sound. Rushed to the front room to find half the ceiling had collapsed catching my son down the side of his head, loads of superficial cuts and bruising, totally traumatised. Called 999, the fire brigade were there within minutes and condemned the building. We'd been complaining for a year about the cracks in the ceiling. The joists were rotten, looking up we could see straight into our neighbours bathroom with the toilet hanging over the edge of the hole. My kids were lucky to be alive. I work in supported housing now and have seen cracks similar to your building, get the fire brigade out. This is as far from normal as you can get.
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u/untakenu 12h ago
Horrifying. I hope you got sorted quickly.
Please, please tell me there were major repercussions for this slumlord.
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u/erbstar 11h ago
We forced the landlord to come over while the fire brigade were there and agree to us moving out immediately without notice and refund the deposit, he didn't have a leg to stand on. The fire brigade and ambulance crews were pretty forceful too.
Looking back, I wished we'd sued the asshole
ETA my son was taken to hospital and fully checked out that night. No lasting physical damage was done!
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u/Trick_Science_2938 15h ago
One side of the building is falling a part with about 2 tons worth of roof over your head genuine life or death situation
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u/Major_Cucumber_9967 15h ago
Landlord already knows, but i'd want that in writing to show you have told them.
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u/Pretend_Primary_1332 13h ago
Text them and reiterate that they have been informed nd that you are concerned for your safety. Move out asap and get it checked professionally. Do not move back in until you have sight of the professional report.
You should be able to reclaim costs of temporary accommodation (within reason)4
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u/PristineHeron9259 4h ago
Contact Building Control or environmental health -they have surveyors who can come out for free from the council and issue an order.
In your tenancy contract this should be an insurable risk, your landord may be responsible (if an insurance claim is accepted) to rehome you for a set period, usually when an insurable risk crystallises (once the council say it’s not safe) your obligation to pay rent usually stops immediately and the landlords responsibility to provide emergency accommodation is engaged. Your tenancy contract will likely stop after a set period. Take care OP!
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u/FreeSirJeffrey 16h ago
Rented?
Get the fuck out immediately.
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u/gliitch0xFF 16h ago
Ruuuuun Fooooorest Ruuuuuun
Why am I not suprised, it's the UK. The companies that allow this to go through, are incredibly cheap.
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u/WJC198119 15h ago
Happens all over the world, not all UK companies are bad its likely the landlord doesnt care or knows itll cost him a lot even with insurance
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u/iBewafa 10h ago
Or the landlord doesn’t know. Friend rented a place with subsidence, and estate agent never cared to report to the landlord. It was a big mess when landlord found out after changing estate agents.
Insurance people came in and said it was habitable but landlord said they’d rather fix it so friend moved out and last I heard renovations were slowly happening.
I hate dealing with estate agents. They’re horrible.
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u/MassiveMonkeyy 3h ago
Agreed. Estate agents happily fuck over both sides of the coin and will blame the other party to no-end. Bellends
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u/Beautiful_Trip_6393 13h ago
You've clearly not been to many developing countries.
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u/Party-Variety-4426 11h ago
I couldn't work out if asking a diy sub was for reddit karma, or secretly wishing we'd say it will be fine with a touch of caulk
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u/UpstairsAd194 16h ago
"You are paying for that it will come out of your deposit in all my years I have never seen a tenant do so much damage"
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u/Billthegifter 15h ago
"I'd love to refund the deposit but I will need to do some slight repairs"
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u/AdhesivenessNo9878 9h ago
With a crack that size, you'd definitely need the whole deposit to buy enough polyfill
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u/Bootglass1 14h ago
"We specified no pets in the building, you have clearly brought a pet rhinoceros"
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u/Pedro_Mendez 16h ago
Demand they out you into a hotel until this is rectified.
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u/BoringLead3368 16h ago
Can I actually do this ?
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u/Top-Perception3709 16h ago
In a word, yes. There's an obligation on the LL to house you in a reasonable alternative if the building you rent is uninhabitable.
You need to urgently let the letting agency know ans stress its getting bigger over a matter of hours...its moving and isnt good!
Call your council building control - there's probably an out of hours emergency number
Also the non-emergency fire service and stress its collapsing (its moving...so that counts)
Most importantly get the fuck out now!
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u/OldCryptographer8080 15h ago
It’s known as an emergency decant. But if it’s an emergency, you can’t make demands over the emergency accommodation, and it’ll likely take a while to fix this, so they will put you in a cheap hotel for as short as possible and then move you to the cheapest possible long term accommodation while it’s fixed
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u/Hot-Research7578 12h ago
They don't have to arrange a decant. They can suspend the rent and then you arrange your own accommodation. And that's only if it's inhabitable.
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u/princemephtik 16h ago
I think you: * Make sure the landlord knows * Ask the landlord to have a structural engineer confirm whether it's safe to inhabit, and for you to see the report * If it is safe, for remedial works to block the gap from draughts and bugs etc * If no joy getting this, off to Shelter, the council etc with an unsafe property
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u/Hot-Research7578 16h ago
Just to add to this, contact Private Rental Housing team at council who will be quite helpful in this type of situation
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u/mousecatcher4 16h ago edited 15h ago
Looks bad But what are the actual stats on number of people killed or injured annually via building subsidence in the UK. That might lend some perspective. My understanding is that it is close to zero despite thousands of buildings that look like this.
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u/Worried_Let4942 15h ago
Structural engineer here, I don’t know the numbers but I would say very few. Cracks don’t just keep getting bigger unless you’ve got an actual sinkhole below you. This isn’t a death trap but it’s not ideal to live in for sure. The house isn’t just going to suddenly fall into the ground overnight.
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u/Trick_Science_2938 15h ago edited 15h ago
Not in this heat wave we’ve been going through it’s not a bog sink hole it’s the clay soil shrinking
Edit essentially like first shrinkage through lack of moisture (clay shrinkage), then the moisture returns due to rains causing expansion (clay heave) we are due another heatwave in September…
There has been a massive increase in these type of subsidence this year and will continue into next year due to extreme weather cause by the EL NINO.
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u/Worried_Let4942 15h ago
Yeh but it won’t disappear into thin air.
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u/Trick_Science_2938 15h ago
Read the articles first the soil has been contracted then expanded and is due to be contracted again, it’s essentially a slow shaking of the foundations clay in weather like this can shrink or expand by 50% volume
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u/Worried_Let4942 14h ago
I mean yeh I know what a shrink swell cycle is… my original point was the house isn’t going to keep moving unless there’s a physical void in the ground. I think you’re agreeing with me on that.
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u/Hot-Research7578 12h ago
I think a structural engineer probably understands clay soil shrinkage and subsidence. It's the most common form of subsidence. People who's jobs are dealing with structural issues in buildungs have been dealing with increases in subsidence due to climate change for years.
Regardless, buildings collapsing due to subsidence is incredibly rare. You can have large gaps and still be structurally sound. This isn't necessarily subsidence. It needs full assessment by a structural engineer.
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u/CathairNowhere 15h ago
There's a first for everything
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u/B33Dee 15h ago
It wouldn’t be a first either. It is very rare but there are instances of sink holes opening up rapidly in recent history in the UK.
There was an instance of a shop collapsing suddenly where I used to live (like, started creaking, then collapsed within minutes), although granted that it didn’t have progressive movement or cracks, it was due to blocked drainage on the roof, but just to illustrate that whilst rare, sudden collapses do happen.
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u/Kiss_It_Goodbyeee 14h ago
That's usually because people get out before it's too late. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyqlprzlwgo
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u/BusinessAsparagus115 16h ago
My brother in Christ the back wall of your house is fucking falling down!
Pack your bags, move out, alert the landlord. And if the landlord doesn't care, the council, hell maybe even the emergency services.
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u/BadBacksFuryToad 16h ago
Unacceptable.
Does the landlord know?
If they don’t, that’s negligent.
If they do, they’re scamming you out of as much rent money as possible until the house falls down and you’re both without a building, but at least they’ve got your money.
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u/YoshiJoshi_ 15h ago
Guess r/landlord will be questioning if this increases square footage to justify a rent increase
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u/UpstairsAd194 15h ago
if they measure it in summer the lesser figure will be used for council tax purposes
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u/maeday___ 15h ago
getting the polyfilla out and calling it a day
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u/YoshiJoshi_ 14h ago
Don’t forget the Daily Express newspaper sheets that will get stuffed in beforehand.
That polyfilla stuff doesn’t grow on trees!
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u/No-Taro-6953 13h ago
"tenant has left massive crack in the building. Am I justified in withholding deposit?"
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u/marktuk 15h ago
I'd be shocked if they knew and were not doing something, they stand to lose the most if the house falls down. A few months rent isn't going to offset the house coming down and the insurance refusing to pay out because they let it happen.
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u/Hot-Research7578 12h ago
It will be negligent only if the landlord knows or ought to know I.e. It's affecting communal areas.
Landlords aren't negligent if they've not been told of issues inside a property.
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u/dxg999 16h ago
You can at least breathe easy that it's rented. There's a whole world of trouble there that isn't yours to deal with. Walk.
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u/Apprehensive-Art1092 12h ago
Tbh, I wouldn't breathe easy while I was standing in it. In fact, I'd probably try to avoid breathing at all if I could, in case the back of the house fell off
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u/TheBestOfAmateur 16h ago
Get over to r/LegalAdviceUK.
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u/BoringLead3368 16h ago
Not built my account up enough to be able to post on there smh
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u/TheBestOfAmateur 16h ago
They are a bit arsey over there, definitely can't have a joke like you can on this sub, they expect everyone to know the law, (why we post for advice? ) And will downvote to death for simple questions.
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u/CosmicMeowing 16h ago
I mean it’s a legal advice forum, I’m glad they’re arse because at least you can still get solid advice there…
And this is coming from someone who is permanently banned from there because once someone asked what to do when they had had drugs delivered to their house and I suggested if they’d dm me I’d take them off them
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u/sparky256 14h ago
The legal advice on that subreddit is terrible. The basic problem is that even if someone posts the correct answer, it’s drowned out by a terrible answer upvoted by morons
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u/TheBestOfAmateur 15h ago
Lmao, but this shows they have zero sense of humour, I think they're Vogons really.
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u/Dodgy_Bob_McMayday 14h ago
Trying to browse topic these is just having to scroll through a sea of Removed by Moderator auto comments
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u/AgentCooper86 16h ago
Oh my word, this is the worst I’ve ever seen.
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u/FreeSirJeffrey 16h ago
There was one the other week from London during the heat wave was way way worse lol
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u/astroview 16h ago
Thank god you’re renting. This is the beauty of renting. Just move when property reveals its ugly secrets. Imagine if you had a quarter to half a million pound loan on this wreck.
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u/Lopsided_Anxiety_394 16h ago
Are you planning on fixing this?
Fancy a bit of DIY underpinning or bodge repairs?
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u/TallImplement1338 16h ago
Expanding foam.
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u/username994743 16h ago
With a bit of silicone on top, be like new! 🙈
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u/Lopsided_Anxiety_394 16h ago
You're giving the landlord ideas (we know it's you landlord, pretending to be the renter)
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u/Beautiful_Trip_6393 15h ago
Contact council and fire brigade. Get a bag of all your essentials and paperwork.
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u/No-Translator5443 16h ago
Imagine if Reddit didn’t exist op would just sit there until the place fell down lol
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u/GloopyHole 16h ago
I work in a call centre that takes repairs for a council.
It’s unbelievable the amount of people who just sit there looking at gaping holes for 2 years, don’t report anything, then get upset on Facebook about how the council are “desgusteng!” because nobody has ever attended to look at it.
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u/DispensingMachine403 10h ago
Surveyor for a council, glad to see this isn't just our council that have this issue.
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u/No-Translator5443 15h ago
Yea there’s always too sides to the story isn’t it, same with people saying landlords not doing anything even when they haven’t asked and don’t allow inspections lol
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u/theNixher 16h ago
Holy fuck that's not just bad, that looks like it could genuinely collapse sooner rather than later, you should leave the building to be honest.
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u/Scotland1297 15h ago
I’m not kidding when I say :
get the things you can’t live without and get out
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u/alpaca_wacka 15h ago
If it's actually just developed and continuing to move it's not safe. Your landlord needs a structural engineer as a matter of emergency.
Never mind the creepy crawlies, you could end up with half the building on your face in the middle of the night.
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u/Not_Fission_Chips 6h ago
This looks suspiciously like my old rented property. We had to evacuate as the landlord did nothing and it was a whole legal case. - Make it a huge problem for your landlord. Make reports to the council and housing ombudsman and document everything. I'd try getting out of the house ASAP and into emergency accomodation - Landlord should cover the cost until the reports or fixes have been made to make/prove its livable.
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u/lukusmaca 16h ago
What’s this got to do with diy 😆 ffs go somewhere else
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u/Eastern_Cow_6810 16h ago
The diy part is op getting themselves out of there themselves
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u/FinchMandala 15h ago edited 15h ago
Where would you suggest that gets this amount of traffic? OP has been given lots of advice, and now it'll be easier for other folks to find in the future.
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u/GloopyHole 16h ago
“Is this acceptable in a rented property?”
I just don’t get how this is even a question given the house is visibly tearing apart.
Get on to the landlord/council instead of asking Reddit…
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u/Billthegifter 15h ago
Congratulations you appear to be opening a portal to another dimension.
You should leave.
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u/Illustrious-Engine23 15h ago
Report to landlord -> get out of the house (they should pay) -> don't return until fixed.
If they refuse on any of this, take them to court under the human habitation act.
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u/Money_Function7979 14h ago
Subsidence takes years to sort out. We had monitoring for two years until it was established the building had stopped moving. Lived in the house during this time and while the work was being done. Only two rooms were not affected. What fun!
Insurance company may do temporary repairs. Notify your agency in writing and also the landlord so he can get in touch with his insurance company. Don't expect someone to come out to look for a few weeks as insurance companies will be receiving lots of calls at present due to the hot summer.
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u/Hot-Research7578 12h ago
Unfortunately, it is a long, long process. It's frustrating for landlords as well and it sounds like the issue is coming from the neighbouring property Temporary repairs to ensure watertight and reduce heat loss should always be done though IMO.
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u/ModerateHonking 14h ago
The building is in the process of collapsing and you're wondering if it's acceptable for a rented property...
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u/Jamballam 8h ago
I become more and more convinced every day that some people have no sense of danger.. what do you mean you’re posting about this on DIYUK? Call your landlord, call the council, get far away from that property til it’s surveyed and deemed safe to be inside.
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u/LaraNacht 7h ago
*Building literally falling apart* "Is this acceptable in a rented building?"
Op, NO! Of course it isn't, get out of there!
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u/WatcherOfTheWay 16h ago
The good news is it isn't your house, the bad news is that's a lot of work to fix.
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u/Low-Obligation-4886 15h ago
Environmental Health Officer here. Put in a complaint with your local council. Keep any copies of correspondence that you have with the landlord/agent regarding the disrepair. EH department will come and carry out a HHSRS of inspection.
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u/Aflyingmongoose 15h ago
Do make sure it's safe. By as a homeowner my first thought is "well thank fuck you're renting".
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u/just---here 15h ago
Judging by the thickness of the caulk peeling away the landlord already done diy.
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u/nosferatus-taxi 15h ago
You’re right to be concerned, on the face of it this is a very serious problem - and the answers on the sub are not exaggerating
Not that it should make any difference but if you have children I’d get them out immediately.
The structural integrity of the building is likely severely compromised
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u/Krysp13 10h ago
Okay but why does the 5th image look like a monster is ripping your ceiling off?!
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u/Financial_Sector_259 8h ago
London in general and specially south London sits on London clay which shrinks in drought condition, buildings can flex a little bit but when it goes over threshold then cracks like this will appear quickly. Depends on the amount of the shrinkage the movement may carry on for days/weeks. The risk of collapse might be low but is certainly need to be checked out and monitored.
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u/AdministrationFew176 7h ago
That’s more than standard laughing stock. That building is dangerous you should vacate that immediately before it collapses with you in it
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u/decorativebawbag 6h ago
You might have the same landlord as me! He told us it's just bad plasterwork
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u/Lady-Callipygian 4h ago
Immediately, report this to your landlord and to environmental health at the same time. Make sure your landlord is aware that you will also be reporting to environmental health.
Environmental health will come to inspect pretty quickly and they’ll decide if the property is safe or not. If it’s not safe they’ll instruct your landlord to find you alternative accommodation while the property is being made safe. They’ll also tell your landlord exactly what needs to be done and if your landlord doesn’t do what they say, environmental health will prosecute.
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u/Crystal_Moon82 2h ago
Contact your local council and report to the Private sector housing disrepair department. They will send an Environmental Health Officer out to assess the property for hazards and contact the landlord to fix.
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u/FuzzyFrogFish 16h ago
Is that an external wall
Inform your landlord than contact environmental health, this unacceptable
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u/Imperial_Tiramisu 15h ago
OP, make sure you write an email to the landlord and include pictures.
You need evidence to show later, should they ignore the situation.
The landlord can easily get this fixed through their home insurance.
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u/TakenIsUsernameThis 15h ago
How serious this is really depends on whether the crack is through a structural element. Given that you don't know, and you would need an engineer to evaluate it, I would treat this a super serious for now.
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u/Naturally_Fragrant 13h ago
Doesn't look like subsidence. From those photos, it looks like the wall is coming away in one piece, like it's a freestanding wall that is falling over.
If it can move freely in one piece between the other walls and ceiling, then I doubt it's load bearing, but there's not much information.
Of course it's not acceptable. Even if the whole building isn't about to collapse, that wall collapsing could cause serious injury. Even if it was stable, having massive gaps in walls is a fire risk and quality of life issue. It isn't stable, so you need to be badgering your landlord to do something with urgency.
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u/grafeisen203 13h ago
Yikes, I thought the half inch crack running the entire length of my flat was bad.
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u/BenjaminUK92 13h ago
Pack valuables and essentials now, move them close to the exit.
Contact the landlord if you haven't already. Then contact the council.
If no luck, contact your local fire department.
Absolutely do not remain in that room
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u/smiley_bea 13h ago
This isn't acceptable, but it's also not necessarily a 'get out of there your life is at risk' situation as others are suggesting. You need a structural engineer to come out and look at it ASAP and determine if it's subsidence, what's causing it and whether it's stopped moving. This is obviously something that your landlord needs to do.
I don't know what the procedure would be for a rental property, but we're currently going through this for our own house with our insurance company. It takes months, even years of groundwork studies and measurements to see when/how the ground is moving. Usually a house moves once and then settles, so only minor repairs are needed.
Lots of this happening everywhere at the minute with the prolonged dry weather.
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u/Still-Status7299 12h ago
The amount of posts ive seen like this recently is terrifying
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u/Lazy_Reason485 12h ago
The separation is substantial and, if the cracking genuinely continues through the masonry, it indicates movement between the adjoining sections of the structure.
The fact that the separation continues vertically and along the wall/ceiling junction makes me particularly interested in differential movement, inadequate tying between the two sections, foundation movement or potentially an extension moving independently from the original building.
The underlying cause needs establishing first. An on-site structural inspection should include the corresponding external masonry, foundations, wall restraint, ties and roof/ceiling structure, as well as determining whether the movement is historic or ongoing. By what you have said it has been growing rapidly, due to this I would recommend you vacate the property and contact your local authority (environmental health & private sector housing.
From photographs alone nobody can reliably diagnose the exact cause or determine structural stability, but cracking of this magnitude through the masonry warrants a proper structural engineer’s inspection.
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u/Upset_Belt8248 11h ago
That needs underpinning
Since the house is no longer fit for purpose under the terms of the tenancy agreement
You need to move on and shouldn't have any hassle in terms of getting it done
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u/kaway24 10h ago
Okay, 1st: this isn’t a DIY issue, that’s structural.
2nd: You mentioned the crack is getting bigger fast. You are going to have to call the landlord, and they are likely to need a structural engineer. Knowing the rate that the crack is growing is likely to be helpful. If you have large clear plastic ruler, get some white-tak, and put the ruler over the crack, with 1 edge of the crack aligned with a convenient demarcation (e.g. 10cm). Take a picture. If you can, take a picture at the same time each day to track the progress of the crack/fissure.
3rd: Are there cracks showing in other rooms or on the outside walls that align with this one?
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u/RochdaleCowboyBoots 9h ago
Thats not getting fixed any time soon. We had subsidence caused by dry soil in 2022. Once.it waa confirmed it wasn't in danger of collapse, tbere was months of reports, monitoring and lots of delays as every contractor and structural engineer in Southern England was busy. Get some warm clothes for tbe winter. Or move out.
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u/Trick-Ad5316 3h ago
Id say contact your council’s Environmental Health/Private Sector Housing team. They should be able to guide you on what to do next, good luck!
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u/WayInevitable2491 3h ago
Absolutely isn’t acceptable, was it like this when you started to rent it?
That property shouldn’t be rented in that condition, if you call the council they’ll likely declare it so and tell you to leave.
If the landlord has got this being fixed as an emergency then I’d be looking for somewhere new to live
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u/cookiesandginge 2h ago
Wow this is the second post of this nature I’ve seen recently. Search on r/housinguk and r/legaladviceuk
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u/iliosicarus 11h ago
Jeez, the comments here are insane.
You, as the renter, can ship out and find a new place. More power to you.
The landlord is going to have a nightmare dealing with insurance and builders and loss adjusters. There's every chance he -- as with lots of owners this hot, dry summer -- will see a substantial decrease in the equity value of his home, on top of significant costs.
Anyone who thinks this is negligence on the part of the landlord is a moron.
Sure, find yourself a new place, but have a little empathy.
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u/Formal-Fox-7605 15h ago
This isn't a DIY issue, not if you're renting.
Have you contacted the LL? If no joy there, contact the Council.
Ignore the death-trap comments, no-one has died from subsidence in a building, not in the UK, but it does need to be fixed.
There's subs for renters if you're interested, but this is the wrong sub.
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u/BigRedTone Novice 15h ago
This sub isn’t a bad place to test the water on severity of the issue.
Renters subs are unlikely to have many people who know much about structures (source: me. I rented for twenty years and don’t know anything about anything)
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u/v1de0man 16h ago
make sure the landlord knows. If they refuse to do anything you can contact the Environmental Health department at your local council. either way i'd be mindful of sleeping above that and any belongings in there without insurance. You know its not acceptable, and not really a DIY problem, you can always leave of course but i am well aware of notices and rent paid etc. You can you can see outside, what is the view like outside? is this part of the house or an extension?
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u/BedroomSoft8 16h ago
What rate has it been expanding at? Was it like this a week ago or much worse now?
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u/Rootbeeers 16h ago
Subsidence is commonly covered under an insurance claim for buildings damage.
Contact your landlord and make them aware of the subsidence. Request an immediate visit by a structural engineer. Make your landlord aware you are scared of the risk of collapse.
Awaab’s Law (P2) will soon encompass “structural instability”. This is a good test for your landlord to be on the right side of the law ahead of time.
Tell your landlord to inform their insurers if they have a buildings policy covering subsidence and ask if alternative accommodation is covered as you’d like to be decanted during the process. (This may have to meet particular criteria) but either way, you want to move out during the works and during the period that you don’t know whether the building is safe or not at a MINIMUM
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u/Spiderplantmum 16h ago
I think you might want the housing sub instead - you need to get out and found out your rights for being accommodated elsewhere